Knowledge is the Antidote for Vaccine Orthodoxy

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: TerryDon79

I made assumptions that there would be a pack of wolves along on the thread regardless of the evidence and regardless of about anything else . . .

But the "evidence" you posted, was false.

and

that their attitudes would be hostile, arrogant, ruthless, etc. etc.

It wasn't any of those thing. We showed how your evidence was false and you took offence. That's not our problem.

I hoped I'd be wrong but expected to be more right than wrong.

If you posted something with false information, expect it to be jumped on. I'd expect the same to happen to me. I'd rather be proven false, than assume I'm right when I'm not.

And I don't have as much patience about such posting attitudes as I might have at one time.

You don't seem to have much patience with opposite opinions of yourself.

[quote[Your personhood insults are arrogant, cheap shots, crass and otherwise not worth reading. I'm increasingly inclined to just scroll by such attitudes and posters regardless of their content or lack of it.
Do as you wish. Your constant appeal to authority gets you nowhere in unrelated threads. Just as mine would get me nowhere.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I have an almost life-long . . . passion, hobby, bent, something . . .

ever since my boss when I was acting Director of the Univ Library Special Collections Dept . . . and my boss chastened me sternly because I was mocking some flaky sources, materials.

He noted--as the world's expert with the largest private collection of pre-Hitler materials of all sorts--that it was the MOST flaky groups, organizations

WHO FIRST AND MOST ACCURATELY predicted what Hitler was, who he was, what he was about, what his goals were and what he would do.

Yes, that gets me in trouble fairly frequently with false positive errors.

On the whole, I think my error rate is not that horrible but I can understand others feeling differently about that.

It is utterly outrageous and at least dismaying to see the typical other side

ACT AND SOUND UTTERLY OBLIVIOUS ABOUT THEIR CHRONIC ADDICTION TO PREFER TO RISK A FALSE NEGATIVE ERROR virtually every time they turn around.

And yet THEY pretend to be MORE scientific and evidence based when the

SCIENCE would dictate that their addiction toward preferring a FALSE NEGATIVE ERROR is very blindly UNSCIENTIFIC.

Sigh.

originally posted by: BO XIAN

originally posted by: TerryDon79

So the vaccines themselves didn't kill the kids. That makes your statement about vaccines killing people, false. Contamination killed people.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . . I see . . .

Sooooooooo, the bacteria were riding along on a Harley beside the needle and just happened to miraculously end up in the same stream in the same hole?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

The bacteria came in the same needle as the vaccine. It was all one injection. The injection was called, quite reasonably

a VACCINATION.

All manner of convoluted revisionism will not change that FACT.

I'm glad it's my bed time.

The absurdity level is getting a bit high, currently.

Im trying to understand this, a vaccine was comtamanated with a bacteria, or the needle used was comtamnated and it was the vaccine fault. How ever the bacteria got in to the humans body, it was never part of the vaccine, even if the bacteria was interduced to kill people it was still not part of the vaccine.

a reply to: imod02

Evidently you are correct.

Evidently.

At least believable sources affirm that was the case.

I am not a scientist but I have been researching this topic for a few years. I have tried to be objective though I have an adult family member who has been incapacitated by a vaccination.

I would just like to make a few points.

1. Some vaccinations HAVE been the cause of immune system disorders and illness.
Chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia following immunization with the hepatitis B vaccine
PubMed
Risk of confirmed Guillain-Barre syndrome following receipt of monovalent inactivated influenza A (H1N1) and seasonal influenza vaccines in the Vaccine Safety Datalink Project, 2009-2010.
PubMed

2. Flu Vaccinations can cause an overload on your body’s defences and make it MORE LIKELY you will get another strain of flu [remember vaccine is for at most 4 strains, while in reality there are a couple of hundred you could catch]
Increased risk of noninfluenza respiratory virus infections associated with receipt of inactivated influenza vaccine.
PubMed

3. The World’s LEADING authority on the human immune system Yehuda Shoenfeld, author of the recognised medical teaching literature on the topic, claims that the adjuvants in vaccines and the vaccines themselves can cause immune system disorders.
Vaccines and autoimmunity.
PubMed

4. Some people ARE at more risk of complications than others.
Predicting post-vaccination autoimmunity: Who might be at risk?
PubMed

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Drug companies and Government Health bodies need to come clean, accept that vaccines are NOT the be all and end all for everyone. Ascertain those at risk so they can be exempted and compensate those people who were wrongly advised it was safe for everyone and are now incapacitated for life.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
THANKS TONS for your more civil tone.
I feel like I can have a decent dialogue with you.

Thank you, but I think all posters were civil, some perhaps very passionate about the topic but you cannot deny being passionate about it yourself, Bo Xian. We are all humans, we all have better and worse moments.

Anyway, back to the OP: I did ask you on a previous page to tell me which vaccines you think are safe or safer than the rest... and why. I'd like to know what makes you think some vaccines are safer than others.

originally posted by: traveller57
I am not a scientist but I have been researching this topic for a few years. I have tried to be objective though I have an adult family member who has been incapacitated by a vaccination.

I would just like to make a few points.

1. Some vaccinations HAVE been the cause of immune system disorders and illness.
Chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia following immunization with the hepatitis B vaccine
PubMed
Risk of confirmed Guillain-Barre syndrome following receipt of monovalent inactivated influenza A (H1N1) and seasonal influenza vaccines in the Vaccine Safety Datalink Project, 2009-2010.
PubMed

2. Flu Vaccinations can cause an overload on your body’s defences and make it MORE LIKELY you will get another strain of flu [remember vaccine is for at most 4 strains, while in reality there are a couple of hundred you could catch]
Increased risk of noninfluenza respiratory virus infections associated with receipt of inactivated influenza vaccine.
PubMed

3. The World’s LEADING authority on the human immune system Yehuda Shoenfeld, author of the recognised medical teaching literature on the topic, claims that the adjuvants in vaccines and the vaccines themselves can cause immune system disorders.
Vaccines and autoimmunity.
PubMed

4. Some people ARE at more risk of complications than others.
Predicting post-vaccination autoimmunity: Who might be at risk?
PubMed

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Drug companies and Government Health bodies need to come clean, accept that vaccines are NOT the be all and end all for everyone. Ascertain those at risk so they can be exempted and compensate those people who were wrongly advised it was safe for everyone and are now incapacitated for life.

THANKS BIG.

Bears repeating with emphasis.

INDEED.

a reply to: Agartha

I didn't feel exactly 'slapped with civility' the first pages. I'd have to read them again to see if you were correct.

In terms of which vaccines . . . I haven't studied it thoroughly enough to make much of an articulate answer . . . I know that all of them have been a problem for some people and that then it is a risk vs benefit issue.

My own mostly safe list would probably be Chicken Pox, DPT, pneumonia and maybe another or 2 I'm not thinking of. I think the measles vaccine has been a problem for more than a few but I forget, for sure. I think the mumps vaccine has been a problem for more than a few.

As to passionate about this topic . . . if 100 is my most average super passionate . . . I'd probably say I was at about 50-60 on this topic.

I'd say I'm about 85-95 on the issue of folks hypocritically spewing bad attitude on threads almost from the git-go.

Thanks again.

a reply to: traveller57

Welcome to ATS!

Let me reply to your post:

1A) I don't like to reach conclusions without being able to read the whole article, however, the abstract says that the study suggests that in some cases (some,not all) FM and CFS can be temporarily related to immunization, and that those patients already had risks factors. Those risk factors were genetic autoimmune susceptibility and a higher concentration of autoantibodies. It's common knowledge that vaccines should not be administer to peope who are ill or with a weaken immune system, so I'm not surprised those 19 people ended up with FM and CFS.

1B) Their study showed that there was a small elevated risk of GBS following the influenza vaccine, however, the results should be compared to the high benefits of the vaccine in reducing both mortality and morbidity (stated in your article).

2) It seems like receiving the flu vaccine increased the immunity to the influenza viruses at the expense of reduced immunituy to non-influenza viruses (such as rhinovirus and echovirus). Additional studies are needed as this one had a small sample and 46 patients who did not receive the vaccine also contracted the non-influenza viruses.

3) Do you have the whole article? I can't access it and I would like to read their data.

In the UK parents are given the vaccines leaflets before they vaccinate their children, so that they can make an informed decision. And vaccines are never given to children when they are ill or if their immune system is compromised. Our immunization program is not compulsory, but we still have a high rate of vaccination.

I realize this article is not about vaccines but it sure does not give one the warm and fuzzies regarding pharmaceuticals.

CBC article

Who cheats on tests? Some foreign drug makers do. Several dozen companies have been caught in the act, fabricating data used by Health Canada and other regulators to approve drugs for sale in the Canadian, U.S. and European markets.

And because 80 per cent of drugs on the Canadian market and almost half of those sold in the U.S. are imported, Health Canada, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and other health regulators are increasingly trying to crack down.

Vaxxed is currently showing here (it was banned from the Tribeca film fest). The director was interviewed on the news hour and was accused of being anti science. I thought it was rather hostile but am sure he is use to it
Is it possible all the so called anti vaxxers are not so much anti science as anti coverup?

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: BO XIAN
I still recall the Mexican town where so many deaths occurred quickly and directly attributable to vaccines.

Care to name that town? how many deaths?

I remember reading an article about that too. If I remember right that was because of a problem with the vaccine, but it was a design problem. They got rid of the vaccine if I remember right.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: BO XIAN
I won't be holding my breath for your apology

Oh dear, you really pick a crap site as your source!
rationalwiki.org...

NaturalNews.com (formerly Newstarget, which is now a separate site) is website run by Mike Adams (self-labeled "The Health Ranger") which promotes alternative medicine and related conspiracy theories and attacks on science.[2] Even other quacks think it's a quack site.[3] The site particularly specializes in vaccine denialism and woo,[4] AIDS/HIV denialism,[5] quack cancer treatments,[6] and conspiracy theories about "Big Pharma"[7] and modern medicine in toto. Furthermore, Adams supports quantum woo, specifically quantum healing[8] and quantum consciousness.[9] NaturalNews advances a hard green position, even though the site also promotes global warming denialism.[10] To top it off, Adams promotes conspiracy theories about gun control.[11] If you cite NaturalNews on any matter whatsoever, you are almost certainly wrong.

If you had done some real research you would have known

scienceblogs.com...

also
www.washingtontimes.com...

MEXICO CITY (AP) - Mexico’s public health system says a localized bacterial contamination appears to have been responsible for infant vaccine causing the deaths of two babies and the sickening of 31. The Mexican Institute for Social Security said late Tuesday that 14 babies remain hospitalized, with four of them in grave condition. The vaccinations for tuberculosis, rotovirus and hepatitis B were administered at a clinic in the impoverished Indian village of La Pimienta in the township of Simojovel in Mexico’s southern state of Chiapas. The agency said tests revealed the presence of several bacteria in the vaccine used, but it did not identify them. It said the bacteria were consistent with the babies’ illnesses. The institute said the vaccines themselves were safe, and it is investigating how the contamination occurred.

It doesn't matter if a bacteria caused the illness, the bacteria was in the vaccines. If they would not have had the vaccines, the kids would have not gotten sick.

It is like saying the tacos you ate were not responsible for the food poisoning you got, it was the bacteria in the food that made you sick. So the people who made the tacos aren't responsible, sue the bacteria.

The vaccinations caused the illness.

Natural news does have some very good articles, quoting a wiki link that says they aren't reliable is not reliable itself since they often have oposing opinions on Wiki. That article you quoted is just an opinion. I do check to see if Natural news has it right, and it does most of the time.