Pulse Nightclub Shooter Spurned by Boyfriends, ‘Did it for Revenge’

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Gryphon66

Believe what you like.
Multiple first hand witnesses say the shooter asked about race and not sexual orientation.

I think the cia/fbi/nsa are trying to discredit the shooter so he is not celebrated as accomplishing his task of terrorism.
ISIS hates gays. Make the shooter gay after the fact and he is no longer a hero to them.

It's not a matter of belief, but of evidence.

You're taking the "witnesses" out of context. If you wish to make an argument that the motivation was racial, may I suggest you start a thread exploring that possibility?

You think alphabet agencies are "discrediting" the shooter via the media in the same paragraph you're touting evidence provided by the media?

Oy.

a reply to: SM2

Those are good questions as well. Let's add in that the only verifiable people saying that he was gay is a dude in prosthetic mask speaking anonymously and a third hand account of his ex wife's current fiancee saying that "he may be gay" the wife when asked says specifically that she does not know. Now, thats not to say that was not gay, it just isnt very convincing at this point.

Verifiable people? Or verifiable proof? Plenty of people have claimed that he was on gay apps, that he frequented the nightclub, that they talked to him, and even one guy saying he hooked up with him and providing verifiable information to that effect -- hence, the CC video of Mateen going to Miguel's motel room.

There is no proof to be had -- unless someone comes up with pics/video of him in flagrante delicto. But there is plenty of evidence.

Plus as i linked earlier, the FBI after searching his devices can find no information that indicates he was at any gays bars in the days, weeks or months leading up to the shooting.

And that's the biggest fattest bright red flag of all -- coming from the biggest fattest lying liars of all! Not finding anything on his phone just means that they found nothing on his phone. He could have deleted it all -- apps, messages, search history, etc. He could have more than one phone. He could have gotten a new phone. And they know this. But they make a blanket statement that they have "no indication" it's true. Weasel words that mean nothing!!! They have firsthand testimony from numerous people going back to his school days. That's an "indication" by definition. And, in fact, I'll bet dollars to donuts that they have proof of their own from when they "investigated" him (or they would say otherwise).

I have every reason to doubt the word of the feds... I have no reason to doubt those testifying against "one of their own" so to speak.

a reply to: shooterbrody

I still find that little episode odd to say the least. It must have been an afterthought -- spurred by I don't know what -- because he sure didn't mind killing Black people at first.

Orlando Massacre: These Are the People Who Were Killed at Pulse Nightclub

originally posted by: SM2
a reply to: Boadicea

I am not afraid to admit that it could be both. Yeah sure he could have been gay. I just dont think we should ignore the Islamist terrorist factors as well. if those are ignored or brushed aside arbitrarily as some seem to be pushing for, not you of course, but some here, then it opens up the real possibility that the atrocity will be labeled as a hate crime when in reality it could have been (and in my opinion ) an attack by a terrorist with the fact that was a hate crime being secondary in nature. This distinction will effect the coming political push for ways to limit these types of attacks. The evidence that this was a crime done because of revenge is thin and flimsy. Every piece is contradicted by others . Now, if this video from TMZ does exist, well that changes that. Then the likelihood that he was gay is all but certain, doesnt change the 911 call, he shouting aloha snack bar as he shot the place up, doesnt change ISIS announcing it would happen or taking credit for it after the fact, doesnt change his past support for radical islam, it just addsd another facet

That's a pretty good summation -- thank you.

For my part -- I'll just spit it out -- I don't trust the feds any farther than I can throw em. I don't want to ignore or dismiss anything because I know this is already being spun and politicized on all sides -- truth be damned when there's an agenda to shove down our throats! (Especially during an election year)

a reply to: Boadicea
again we agree, I do not trust the feds either, especially, like you said, during an election year, especially when a clinton is running!

originally posted by: SM2
a reply to: Boadicea
again we agree, I do not trust the feds either, especially, like you said, during an election year, especially when a clinton is running!

Yes, yes, can't forget -- or underestimate -- Clinton... I have this feeling deep in my heart that she is tied to this part and parcel just because... well... Clinton!

I'm just not sure how yet. But I'm keeping in mind that truth is stranger than fiction... and with the Clintons, anything is possible. Especially given her close and longstanding ties to Muslims in general and the Muslim Brotherhood in specific. AND the gay community. (There are plenty of rumors about Hillary being gay also.) This has got to be Hilary's worst nightmare, as evidenced by so many members of the gay community switching their support to Trump.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I in no way took the witness statements out of context.
The shooter asked questions as to race and not to sexual preference.
There is actual evidence the shooter had racial motivation.

Why would a gay revenge killer let gays escape?

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Gryphon66

I in no way took the witness statements out of context.
The shooter asked questions as to race and not to sexual preference.
There is actual evidence the shooter had racial motivation.

Why would a gay revenge killer let gays escape?

If true, I think for exactly the reason he stated. He considered Black people victims also -- by both government and society -- and empathized with them.

Since he didn't make that distinction immediately (based on the fact that some Blacks were shot and killed), I'm not sure when or why he had a change of heart though. And I only question the truth of it because I've only heard one witness say so, and that person was under some crazy stress at the time.

a reply to: Boadicea

I posted links to TWO eyewitnesses that both state what the shooter said.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Gryphon66

Why do the witness statements not back up what the "boyfriend" has alledged?

I have posted 2 witnesses that both say the same thing. Neither say anything about gays. If the shooter had it out for gays he would not have let any live. Clearly he did let gays live.

So now you understand the internal workings of Mateen's mind?

You're trying to apply armchair black-and-white logic to a desperate situation. There is no doubt, even in the RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORIST™ explanation that Mateen was targeting gays. Your false dichotomy is patently absurd.

Your witnesses are giving information based on what they know, the boyfriend is giving information based on what he knows.

Are you really trying to argue here that your desperate attempt to cherry-pick discrepancies in witness testimonies proves anything at all?

I don't know if targeting is thr right word. Since it's known that he also cased out theme parks and even tried to gain access to restricted areas. It's almost like the night club was plan b. He needed some place he could cause mass casualties realized certain places were harder than others and went with an easy target he was familiar with. I don't doubt he was fighting inner demons possibly having gay tendencies or being gay with his beliefs. I'm sure this happens to alot of people struggling to have religion and also being true to themselves.

Bottom line if he was specifically targeting gays he wouldn't have been selective in who he shot. He also would have said something about it in 911 tapes. I think in the case we have to take him at his word and his mental state at that moment. We can argue what caused that mental state but it doesn't change the fact he decided to do this for Islam. He declared his loyalty to Isis and attacked amaricans in orlando just like Isis wanted. They said there was going to be an attack in Florida prior. And we'll he took that to heart and planned his attack.

Ps nothing is gained by separating the gay community from amaricans and nothing is gained showing he was gay this just clouds the real issue. Groups like Isis pray on the weak minded and cause them to do radical things. Funny how everyone puts there own agenda above reality. You can't argue against reality its pointless.

originally posted by: SM2
a reply to: Boadicea
again we agree, I do not trust the feds either, especially, like you said, during an election year, especially when a clinton is running!

This is totally off-topic, but I thought you might get a laugh from this too:

How Bad Is Hillary?… She Just Read “Sigh” from Her TelePrompter (VIDEO)

Lolz! It may not be what it seems... but it sure is funny!

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Boadicea

I posted links to TWO eyewitnesses that both state what the shooter said.

Ooops! My bad then, but good to know -- so thank you for the correction and for the links

a reply to: dragonridr

He declared his loyalty to Isis and attacked amaricans in orlando just like Isis wanted. They said there was going to be an attack in Florida prior. And we'll he took that to heart and planned his attack.

Do you think that he was working directly with ISIS to coordinate this attack? Or that he was a lone wolf acting on his own behalf?

I'm curious because I'm still on the fence about that. I'm even half-wondering if he was coordinating an attack directly with ISIS, and that he was told to attack Disney World during their gay pride events next month... but maybe he went rogue, either because he got spooked at Disney World (who became suspicious of him and reported his activities to authorities), or just because he preferred the "two-fer" -- jihad AND revenge in one.

Other than taking credit for it, I really haven't heard much else from ISIS. I really haven't looked either.

a reply to: dragonridr

So, everything Mateen did over the course of his life was planning for some terrorist event like the Pulse mass-murder?

He "cased out" Disney according to the wife. (1 park) (Wanna bet he was there for Gay Days?)

What "restricted areas" did he try to gain access to? When? How?

You just have no basis for making the statement that he "wouldn't have been selective in who he shot." There's no logic to it.

No one here is trying to "separate the gay community" that's been done to us. What I find appalling are the folks who obviously are doing everything they can to minimize the fact that this was primarily a HATE CRIME and that the LGBT community was ATTACKED .... particularly, I find it appalling that suddenly when it fits the political agenda of the Right wing, now suddenly LGBT are Americans who were attacked ... when the same folks have been trying for years to keep us classified as second-class citizens, advocating violence against us, etc. etc.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well according to the LGBT, if you disagree even on minor points, you are a homosexual, or lesbian or Trans or whatever. They have a lot labels for themselves and everyone else yet they speak of diversity.. SHM..

Now, they have this massacre to deal with and they refuse to consider looking in the mirror. They continue to blame the one they fear most, Jesus..

They are an absurd bunch.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No one here is trying to "separate the gay community" that's been done to us. What I find appalling are the folks who obviously are doing everything they can to minimize the fact that this was primarily a HATE CRIME and that the LGBT community was ATTACKED .... particularly, I find it appalling that suddenly when it fits the political agenda of the Right wing, now suddenly LGBT are Americans who were attacked ... when the same folks have been trying for years to keep us classified as second-class citizens, advocating violence against us, etc. etc.

Ok now I get where you are coming from. This is all about you and your lifetime struggle for recognition as a member of the glbt community.

No need to discuss this event further with you. What actually happened in orlando has nothing to do with what you want this to be.
Good day.

Consider the source, folks -- Pamela Geller -- and take it for what it is at this point:

Recovered Phones from Pulse Nightclub Have Recordings of Orlando Jihadi Talking to Co-Conspirator Regarding Tactics

Catherine Herridge of Fox News is reporting that victims inside the club say that Omar Mateen was talking on the phone to a co-conspirator. They recorded it on their phones. This latest revelation is coming from the victims.

I could not find anything about this on Catherine Herridge's Fox News page, but this article added a new twist:

Source: Orlando attacker’s ties to American suicide bomber in Syria ‘deeper’ than thought

Fox News was told the relationship as well as the Mateen case in general are "very complex" but would not go further, citing the sensitivity of the FBI investigation and classified information.

The source said the bomber's return to Florida in 2013 is under fresh scrutiny as well.

Given the current discussion, is "very complex" code for "gay lovers" and they just don't want to say so? Does it not fit their preferred narrative? We are talking about an administration with noted Muslim sympathies... would it be considered an insult to the religion as a whole to reveal the homosexuality of Mateen?

ETA: If he did have an accomplice, my first and best guess is that it was his wife. THAT's who he was talking to on the phone. Witnesses have told us that he spoke to police, a reporter, and a friend. The FBI has told us that he spoke to his wife... but witnesses have not said that... but only because they had no way of knowing he was talking to his wife. But the FBI would.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Gryphon66

No one here is trying to "separate the gay community" that's been done to us. What I find appalling are the folks who obviously are doing everything they can to minimize the fact that this was primarily a HATE CRIME and that the LGBT community was ATTACKED .... particularly, I find it appalling that suddenly when it fits the political agenda of the Right wing, now suddenly LGBT are Americans who were attacked ... when the same folks have been trying for years to keep us classified as second-class citizens, advocating violence against us, etc. etc.

Ok now I get where you are coming from. This is all about you and your lifetime struggle for recognition as a member of the glbt community.

No need to discuss this event further with you. What actually happened in orlando has nothing to do with what you want this to be.
Good day.

Excellent, that will save me wasting my time on thoughtful responses to someone who's only agenda is denial.

Sidenote: Your hate is showing. You forgot to wrap it in the flag this time.

originally posted by: JimmyJones63
a reply to: ketsuko

Well according to the LGBT, if you disagree even on minor points, you are a homosexual, or lesbian or Trans or whatever. They have a lot labels for themselves and everyone else yet they speak of diversity.. SHM..

Now, they have this massacre to deal with and they refuse to consider looking in the mirror. They continue to blame the one they fear most, Jesus..

They are an absurd bunch.

I realize this is probably a drive-by post to excrete some LGBT hate, but ... we're blaming Jesus for Mateen's mass-murder spree?

How d'ya figure?