Aryanam Vaijah the ancient home land of Aryans

a reply to: zinc12

I see so me saying the Aryans were not native Indians is racist.

Nope. Saying that Dravidians could not have written the Upanishads is.

The Indian guy who wrote the book detailing how the Veda shows the Aryans were from the Arctic circle is racist.

Almost certainly. The caste system is implicitly racist. Indian fascists are attempting to establish a caste based theocracy. I touch on this in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The geneticists who studied the DNA of high chaste Indians and declared they are genetically closer to Europeans is racist.

Nope, they are just interpreting things as best they can. Question: why do you believe "science" when it seems to confirm your beliefs, but completely ignore it when it does not? The very same scientists who think that high caste Indians are related to Europeans also think that humans came out of Africa, not a mythic mountain in the Arctic.

The geneticists who traced the European content back to Russia are racist.

Nope. Once again, thy are doing their best to interpret the data. I would love to discuss all the assumptions they need to make, and so forth, but I get the feeling you are not interested.

Well if speaking the truth makes one racist then so be it I have skin thick enough to cope

Good. I'm pretty sure that you have been imbibing racist propaganda and accepting it as gospel.

Then again you declaring that the peoples who wrote the Veda were barbaric could be racist too!

Nope. I don't think the early Vedas were written by a particular race, remember? You do, however. Where do you stand on horse sacrifice and ritual sex murder? Barbaric or not? That's what the earliest level of the Vedas describe. Eventually, Agni and his Indo-European lot were phased out in favor of the more wholesome Dravidian pantheon.

And where did you read the Vedānta was the work of South Indian Dravidian's?

Certainly not in Neo-Nazi literature. Google " India and "wisdom of the forest." Be sure to be seated when you start to explore the results.

a reply to: zinc12
The cosmos does not rotate around us at all, it is all a series of relative motion. You still did not address my point where YOU said the Egyptians witnessed the pole star as the centerpiece of revolution. So you think Egypt is in the North Pole then, good to confirm.

There was literally only one return on the reverse image search, which is how I know it was your source. Which, once again, contradicts your point.

On looking further there is an obvious pattern that the Vedic mathmeticians were depicting idealized numerology in physical expression. Your mount Meru is a depiction of symbolic heaven.


Notice the relation to gold, peace, numerology, youth, longevity. They are formulating their idealized utopic paradise. But sure, feel free to make a fool of yourself and interpret it literally.

You do realize the Rig Veda mentions lions, snakes, elephants, frogs, bees, gazelles, monkeys... show me one shred of evidence that any of these lived near the north pole. Turns out bee distribution is everywhere but the poles:


But alas, I know I'm falling on deaf ears attached to an ignorant brain. Literally, you're ignoring all scientific and anthropological evidence that doesn't fit your narrow unscientific beliefs. I suppose I should guess as much in a thread where someone claims 'the Rig Veda is 7000 years old but I'm not going to bother sourcing it since I know I'm wrong' and people support such idiocy.

I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on the holocaust. Luminari ploy?

a reply to: SargonThrall
You must be giving yourself stars because nowhere did I even talk about Egypt either that or people are giving you stars because they are like you desperate to put meru in India...deal with it its not and neither were the Aryans from India.

But this may interest you anyway :

Toby Wilkinson, an Egyptologist based at Cambridge University, told a conference over the weekend that some of his theory was "deliberately controversial, provocative, but tantalising". He argued, from evidence of the orientation of the pyramids - always to the northern pole star - and from the names given to estates to finance funerary cults, and the shape of the pyramids themselves, that they could be seen as launch pads for the pharaoh's journey to the afterlife among the stars.

www.theguardian.com...

As for how reverse Image searches and how they work, lets just say there are enough people on here with basic knowledge of computers to dismiss your thoughts on that

I'm well aware the the cosmos does not rotate around the Earth, again I stated that way back saying from their perspective it did, more straw man from you.

You were so sure meru is the Himalayas now when its obvious it cant be you turn to numerology, you will do anything to place those Aryans in India wont you lol

I already said meru was heaven did I not, again more straw man arguments stating stuff I already said at the very beginning of this thread.

As for the Holocaust, not even interested in discussing your just having a tantrum because the Aryans were not Indian.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: zinc12

I see so me saying the Aryans were not native Indians is racist.

Nope. Saying that Dravidians could not have written the Upanishads is.

The Indian guy who wrote the book detailing how the Veda shows the Aryans were from the Arctic circle is racist.

Almost certainly. The caste system is implicitly racist. Indian fascists are attempting to establish a caste based theocracy. I touch on this in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The geneticists who studied the DNA of high chaste Indians and declared they are genetically closer to Europeans is racist.

Nope, they are just interpreting things as best they can. Question: why do you believe "science" when it seems to confirm your beliefs, but completely ignore it when it does not? The very same scientists who think that high caste Indians are related to Europeans also think that humans came out of Africa, not a mythic mountain in the Arctic.

The geneticists who traced the European content back to Russia are racist.

Nope. Once again, thy are doing their best to interpret the data. I would love to discuss all the assumptions they need to make, and so forth, but I get the feeling you are not interested.

Well if speaking the truth makes one racist then so be it I have skin thick enough to cope

Good. I'm pretty sure that you have been imbibing racist propaganda and accepting it as gospel.

Then again you declaring that the peoples who wrote the Veda were barbaric could be racist too!

Nope. I don't think the early Vedas were written by a particular race, remember? You do, however. Where do you stand on horse sacrifice and ritual sex murder? Barbaric or not? That's what the earliest level of the Vedas describe. Eventually, Agni and his Indo-European lot were phased out in favor of the more wholesome Dravidian pantheon.

And where did you read the Vedānta was the work of South Indian Dravidian's?

Certainly not in Neo-Nazi literature. Google " India and "wisdom of the forest." Be sure to be seated when you start to explore the results.

Upanishads is known to be the product of Brahmans in North India that is why South Indian Dravidian's could not have authored it.

How can you say the caste system is racist and with the same breath say the Aryans were of the same race, you cant have it both ways but in any case dna has shown the upper cast were not originally of the same race.

I'm imbibing racist propaganda because I say the Aryans were not native Indians lol

As for horse sacrifices it is known that Indians did not have a history of domesticated horses until the Aryans came so how are your Indian Aryans sacrificing horses they don't even have?

a reply to: zinc12

Upanishads is known to be the product of Brahmans in North India that is why South Indian Dravidian's could not have authored it.

Where did you get that misinformation? Have you even read the Vedas and the Upanishads? They are as different as night and day.

How can you say the caste system is racist and with the same breath say the Aryans were of the same race, you cant have it both ways but in any case dna has shown the upper cast were not originally of the same race.

The caste system is racist: it places the Dravidians at the bottom of the pecking order. The Dravidians are the darker people originally more prevalent in the southern part of the sub-continent. They were displaced in the northern part by mostly fairer skinned peoples who brought proto-Sanskrit and "Indo-European" mythology with them. This happened so long ago that it is not clear exactly how it happened.

The Nazis liked to believe that these Indo-European peoples were a single warlike race called the "Aryans," who conquered vast swathes of India, Asia Minor, and Europe by the sword. In fact, they were probably just nomads who wandered into areas that were not being cultivated by the local tribes. They would then engage with their neighbors in trade, with the cultural influences (and genetic mixing) that creates.

What you call the "Aryan race" in India absorbed the local mythology over time, incorporating the Upanishads into their scriptural traditions. Over time, the native Dravidian mythology overcame the pastoralists', and the more barbaric rituals ceased to be practised. (Sadly, suttee contined to be practiced until relatively recently. Suttee would have been considered as an abomination by the matriarchal society that created the Upanishads.)

You seem hung up on race. Genetic markers can be used to show historical connections between groups of people, but that does not necessarily imply a shared culture or even shared "racial" characteristics. All it means is that the ancestors of higher caste Indians interbred with people who may have been European.

I'm imbibing racist propaganda because I say the Aryans were not native Indians lol

No, you are imbibing racist propaganda because you are reading sources that betray sympathy for the fantasies that inspired the Nazis.

As for horse sacrifices it is known that Indians did not have a history of domesticated horses until the Aryans came so how are your Indian Aryans sacrificing horses they don't even have?

That statement makes absolutely no sense. The horse was not domesticated in India, which is why the Upanishads do not mention them at all. It is your "Aryans" who came thundering out of the North Pole in their gilt war chariots who stained the Earth with the blood of inferior races, subjugating them to the lowest caste, who brought horses to India. Either that, or a bunch of different tribes who wandered across Central Asia looking for grazing land for their herds. (Guess which one most scholars think it was.)

The Vedas predate the Upanishads in fact the Upanishads is a discussion of the more spiritual aspects of the Vedas. It is well known it was the product of North Indian Brahmans.

The Aryans were displaced peoples looking for land. There is no proof that they battled with native Indians

The fact that Aryans placed Dravidians (native Indians) lower down in "there" cast system is just more proof that they were not native Indians.


Also another DNA study of interest below:

Between 4,000 and 2,000 years ago, intermarriage in India was rampant.

Prior to about 4000 years ago there was no mixture. After that, widespread mixture affected almost every group in India, even the most isolated tribal groups. And finally, endogamy set in and froze everything in place.”

But once established, the caste system became genetically effective, the researchers observed. Mixture across groups became very rare.

hms.harvard.edu...

So initially Aryans were mixing with native Dravidians but the Aryans got worried that they would get bread out of existence so they made any further mixing illegal. Thus the cast system was just a means of self preservation.

a reply to: zinc12

The Vedas predate the Upanishads in fact the Upanishads is a discussion of the more spiritual aspects of the Vedas.

No, you mean the Vedas were written down in Sanskrit earlier than the Upanishads. The Upanishads may have been an oral tradition among the Dravidians for centuries before the Sanskrit writing Brahmans adopted them.

It is well known it was the product of North Indian Brahmans.

*sigh* Do you have a source that is not Nazi or BJP propaganda?

The Aryans were displaced peoples looking for land. There is no proof that they battled with native Indians

Correct.

The fact that Aryans placed Dravidians (native Indians) lower down in "there" cast system is just more proof that they were not native Indians.

*sigh* The Aryans are made up. Different Indo-European tribes did begin to settle in northern India after the collapse of the Indus Valley civilization. The Indus Valley civilization was neither Indo-European or Semitic in its language or culture. Some Dravidians like to believe they were the ancestors of their culture. Ironically, right wing Hindus also claim the Indus Valley civilization as evidence of the antiquity of Hinduism. The crowning irony: the ruins are located in Muslim Pakistan.

Also another DNA study of interest below:

Between 4,000 and 2,000 years ago, intermarriage in India was rampant.

That's what I've been saying. There was no "Aryan race." Nomadic peoples entered the subcontinent and interbred.

So initially Aryans were mixing with native Dravidians but the Aryans got worried that they would get bread out of existence so they made any further mixing illegal. Thus the cast system was just a means of self preservation.

There were no Aryans! Does the Harvard paper call them Aryans? No: it calls them "ancestral northern Indian population," and ties them in to several other groups. The paper does not even use the term "Indo-European," because that is a language family, not a race or even ethnic group. The caste system is often found, even in an attenuated form, in areas where people speak languages in the Indo-European family, leading scholars to suppose that it was a characteristic of the proto-Indo-European speakers' culture. In other words, it predates the incursion of Indo-European speakers into India.

You really need to stop looking at everything in terms of race.

a reply to: DJW001

As you well know the Harvard paper says the ancestral North Indians have links to Europeans. As you know genetic testing of high cast Indians links them with Europeans, as you know this European genetic component has been traced to Russia, As you well know the Aryans were not Indians and it is you who is caught up in race, your probably Indian yourself or at the very least despite all the evidence you show a desperateness to still say the Aryans were Indians.

As for Upanishads being wrote in north India:

"Geography
The general area of the composition of the early Upanishads was northern India, the region bounded on the west by the upper Indus valley, on the east by lower Ganges region, on the north by the Himalayan foothills, and on the south by the Vindhya mountain range.[13] There is confidence about the early Upanishads being the product of the geographical center of ancient Brahmanism, "
en.wikipedia.org...


The Upanishads is literally a commentary on the more philosophical aspects of the Vedas so how you say it predates it and comes from South India probably has to do with your deep down acknowledgement that the Vedas are Aryan text and they come from the North thus you counter with text from the south and attest they are more ancient.

a reply to: zinc12

As you well know the Harvard paper says the ancestral North Indians have links to Europeans.

It says that some North Indians share genetic markers common throughout Eurasia, yes.

As you know genetic testing of high cast Indians links them with Europeans, as you know this European genetic component has been traced to Russia,

Yes, Russia is part of Eurasia. Some people living in Russia share the same genetic markers as people living in India.

As you well know the Aryans were not Indians and it is you who is caught up in race, your probably Indian yourself or at the very least despite all the evidence you show a desperateness to still say the Aryans were Indians.

You seem to have reading comprehension issues. I am not saying the Aryans were Indians, I am saying the Aryans never existed. The Aryans are a racist myth that grew out of nineteenth century philological speculation. Noting the similarity of certain words across different languages, scholars speculated that there was a common "mother tongue" that originated with a single group of people, which they named the "Indo-Europeans" because the languages were spread across Eurasia. Based on this, ethnologists began to speculate on what sort of lifestyle these people may have had. Eventually, the Anti-Semitic occultist Madame Blavatsky wove this anthropological speculation into her racist "occult philosophy," where it has continued to poison minds to this day.

Mount Meru, the Garden of Eden, and the various other omphaloi are not located at the North Pole. The non-existent Aryans did not come from the non-existent Aryanam Vaijah, which was certainly not located at there either.

a reply to: DJW001

Aryanam Vaijah means homeland of the Aryans so now your telling us the Aryans never existed therefore the concept of a homeland is void...quite pathetic, it must really frighten you that they came from the west I guess.

originally posted by: zinc12
a reply to: DJW001

Aryanam Vaijah means homeland of the Aryans so now your telling us the Aryans never existed therefore the concept of a homeland is void...quite pathetic, it must really frighten you that they came from the west I guess.

Why are you afraid to admit they never existed? Why is it so important to you that there was a race of people called Aryans?

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: zinc12
a reply to: DJW001

Aryanam Vaijah means homeland of the Aryans so now your telling us the Aryans never existed therefore the concept of a homeland is void...quite pathetic, it must really frighten you that they came from the west I guess.

Why are you afraid to admit they never existed? Why is it so important to you that there was a race of people called Aryans?

If i exist, then aryan race also exsits.

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: zinc12
a reply to: DJW001

Aryanam Vaijah means homeland of the Aryans so now your telling us the Aryans never existed therefore the concept of a homeland is void...quite pathetic, it must really frighten you that they came from the west I guess.

Why are you afraid to admit they never existed? Why is it so important to you that there was a race of people called Aryans?

If i exist, then aryan race also exsits.

So you were born in Aryanam Vaijah? No? Then you're not Aryan, you're Caucasian.

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: zinc12
a reply to: DJW001

Aryanam Vaijah means homeland of the Aryans so now your telling us the Aryans never existed therefore the concept of a homeland is void...quite pathetic, it must really frighten you that they came from the west I guess.

Why are you afraid to admit they never existed? Why is it so important to you that there was a race of people called Aryans?

If i exist, then aryan race also exsits.

That's a ridiculous statement to make, and it reeks of supremacist bs.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: zinc12
a reply to: DJW001

Aryanam Vaijah means homeland of the Aryans so now your telling us the Aryans never existed therefore the concept of a homeland is void...quite pathetic, it must really frighten you that they came from the west I guess.

Why are you afraid to admit they never existed? Why is it so important to you that there was a race of people called Aryans?

If i exist, then aryan race also exsits.

That's a ridiculous statement to make, and it reeks of supremacist bs.

As does this thread.

a reply to: zinc12
Oh jeez... if only you gave yourself the same scrutiny you afford me. Your lack of reading comprehension is not on me. I mentioned clearly in this comment that you contradicted yourself in your prior thread wherein you said the Egyptians could witness the stars rotating around one point, yet in this thread you claimed it could only be seen from the north pole. Laughable.

There was literally only one image that came up in the reverse search, which is how I know you got it from there, and deliberately left out the information disagreeing with you.

Just like how you left out the other dimensions of Meru, and the importance of metaphorical numerology, simply because it disproves your theory of a real physical homeland in the arctic.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: zinc12
a reply to: DJW001

Aryanam Vaijah means homeland of the Aryans so now your telling us the Aryans never existed therefore the concept of a homeland is void...quite pathetic, it must really frighten you that they came from the west I guess.

Why are you afraid to admit they never existed? Why is it so important to you that there was a race of people called Aryans?

If i exist, then aryan race also exsits.

So you were born in Aryanam Vaijah? No? Then you're not Aryan, you're Caucasian.

no all caucasians are not aryan but albinos

a reply to: SargonThrall

Sargon blowing more steam out your copper trumpet !
you can see the pole star and the stars revolving around it in Egypt. At that time the pole star was Thuban, today it is Polaris. The Aryans divide the Earth into 7 latitudes and they come from the zone above the other 6 which would be up near the arctic circle. Again they come from the land immediately around the cosmic mountain again placing them in the arctic circle. They were driven out we are told by ice and snow or the expanding Ice of the Ice age. They went southwards searching for warmer lands. They were Europeans and that can be seen in the genetics of their descendant's in India among the higher cast's.

This WILL happen again, at some point the Ice age will return and masses of people from the north will flood southward to escape the cold.

btw you could just read the book below for all the parts in the Vedas that prove the Aryans were from the Arctic circle. I came to this same conclusion independently however I'm not the first to make this observation. With further genetic analysis and ancient bones unearthed in the far north it will be common knowledge in perhaps 10 years from now.