Public Universities Don't Want Science Students To Believe In God

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: jamespond
a reply to: saint4God

This is now the fourth time i have had to say this in this thread. You can never prove that something DOESN'T exist. It is a logical impossibility. What evidence can be produced that unicorns don't exist? Should i believe in unicorns until such evidence of it's non existance is produced?

Get an education in science folks, it is what sets some people apart from others

Hmmm interesting.

I actually saw one of your posts about fairy tales, and I thought it was a bit silly, quite typical of the science crowd, and i'll explain why I thought that.

When it comes to the universe, there's two possibilities of how it got here. The first one is that it happened by chance out of nothing, perhaps like the big bang theory. Or the second is that someone/thing (god if u like) created it. I'm not aware of any other ways it got here anyway

One thing for sure is, that the universe is real, we know this because we experience it. So one of the two possibilities must have come into play. And this is where your unicorn and goblins line goes out of the window. If unicorns or goblins were real we could look for the physical evidence of it, since there isn't any we can safely assume they aren't real.

Like I said before, the universe is real, it isn't a fairy tale, and somehow it got here. Since science relies on observation and data to arrive at a conclusion, science will NEVER be able to tell you, with 100% certainty how the universe came to be. Therefore how it got here can only ever be a matter of opinion. You obviously like the idea of the chance theory, maybe because someone with a masters in physics told you that's how it probably is, certainly not because you've done some kind of study on it anyway.

On the other hand someone else might like the idea of a god, maybe because someone in a church told him that's how it was. I hope you see the similarities of each side?

Whatever it is, nobody can possibly be right or wrong. I see more and more examples on here that it's actually the religious crowd who understand this better than those who choose to look at science for answers.

So perhaps it's the budding scientists on ATS that are the ones who need educating on this subject, not the other way around.

a reply to: jamespond

"When it comes to the universe, there's two possibilities of how it got here."

So only the TWO explanations you personally can concieve are the only possibilities?

That's just daft.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Woodcarver

People are hallucinating when in a near death exp. thats why christians see jesus, and muslims see allah. Comfirmation bias.

What about when a Muslim sees Jesus Christ and not Allah or Muhammad? What about when a Christian sees paradise with just enlightened beings but no winged-angels or golden throne? What about when people learn things that are not believed in their religion like a Christian being given information about reincarnation? Or even seeing a symbol or hearing of an idea that they never knew about until the NDE?

Anita Moorjani heard a conversation between a doctor and her husband down the hall in a confidential/private room.

It is you who has the confirmation bias because you are just assuming that it must be a delusion/hallucination since it doesn't make since to your understanding of science and you aren't mentioning that there are other NDEs that doesn't support the theory that they are just hallucinations.

What about when my buddy saw jack nicholson? It doesn't mean anything. Your brain is stressed out and they are hallucinating. What they see is not relevant. They simply create meaning.

a reply to: saint4God

Churches, actual buildings and organisations cost money, money that should ONLY ever be spent on doing the Lords work. They take collections, bedeck their worship space in finery and rich materials, and this I have NO time for. You should see the places they train even Church of England clergy. Plush does not even get close to the correct term.

The people upholding that modus operandi are not acting in Gods name when they appease that materialistic nonsense in the least. The poor, the sick, the damaged, these people need that money more than the Church ever does, and yet there has to be a new roof, there has to be a new heating system, there has to be a disabled toilet for the elderly parishioners. On the day that owning vast tracts of property and hoarding wealth in the form of precious metal altar pieces emulates and edifies Christ, I will eat my hat. Till then, I will maintain that all human organisation funnels power and wealth into the control of mortal human beings who cannot, by reason of their being part of mankind, be trusted worth a brass plated crap to administer them properly.

The Church, any of them, the mortal, world wide construct, and the local organisation dedicated to maintaining worship space, can officially get in the sea for all I care. It's about as Christian to bother with that nonsense, as it is to screw hookers and stab grannies for their pension money.

originally posted by: jamespond

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: jamespond
a reply to: saint4God

This is now the fourth time i have had to say this in this thread. You can never prove that something DOESN'T exist. It is a logical impossibility. What evidence can be produced that unicorns don't exist? Should i believe in unicorns until such evidence of it's non existance is produced?

Get an education in science folks, it is what sets some people apart from others

Hmmm interesting.

I actually saw one of your posts about fairy tales, and I thought it was a bit silly, quite typical of the science crowd, and i'll explain why I thought that.

When it comes to the universe, there's two possibilities of how it got here. The first one is that it happened by chance out of nothing, perhaps like the big bang theory. Or the second is that someone/thing (god if u like) created it. I'm not aware of any other ways it got here anyway

One thing for sure is, that the universe is real, we know this because we experience it. So one of the two possibilities must have come into play. And this is where your unicorn and goblins line goes out of the window. If unicorns or goblins were real we could look for the physical evidence of it, since there isn't any we can safely assume they aren't real.

Like I said before, the universe is real, it isn't a fairy tale, and somehow it got here. Since science relies on observation and data to arrive at a conclusion, science will NEVER be able to tell you, with 100% certainty how the universe came to be. Therefore how it got here can only ever be a matter of opinion. You obviously like the idea of the chance theory, maybe because someone with a masters in physics told you that's how it probably is, certainly not because you've done some kind of study on it anyway.

On the other hand someone else might like the idea of a god, maybe because someone in a church told him that's how it was. I hope you see the similarities of each side?

Whatever it is, nobody can possibly be right or wrong. I see more and more examples on here that it's actually the religious crowd who understand this better than those who choose to look at science for answers.

So perhaps it's the budding scientists on ATS that are the ones who need educating on this subject, not the other way around.

You can really only imagine two possible ways? And one of those is jesus done it, and the other is jesus didn't do it.

Your caual use of terminology leads me to believe you have never studied physics or understand what a theory is. We have come to our current understanding of a natural progression of our cosmology because that is what we observe. It is all chemistry and ohysics, not much chance involved.

The difference between understanding a long vetted scientific theory and believing what uncle Henry says about god, is astronomical, and yet, you can't tell the difference?

a reply to: GetHyped

I said "I'm not aware of any other way", I was very careful not to say there aren't any other ways. Perhaps you misunderstood me there fella.

I'm all ears if you have theories.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: saint4God

The public universities these days prefer to teach people how to hate one another, and to play the victim. Christian ideals wouldn't fit well with that.

If the term Christian means "one who follows Christ" (as I believe it does) then there is very much the conflict as Jesus said:

"You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," Matthew 5:43

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: MoreInterior

Because the OP isn't true.

I hoped the original post title wasn't true. I'd be happily wrong, but is the conclusion that I and others have reached through multiple experiences.

a reply to: saint4God

What university did you go to where they didn't want you to believe in God?

originally posted by: Woodcarver


You can really only imagine two possible ways? And one of those is jesus done it, and the other is jesus didn't do it.

Wow, just wow

I'll sit here and wait while you point to the part of my post where I mentioned anything about Jesus!!!

Before we start to make further assumptions, this is probably a good point for me to mention that i'm not a Christian.

Your caual use of terminology leads me to believe you have never studied physics or understand what a theory is. We have come to our current understanding of a natural progression of our cosmology because that is what we observe. It is all chemistry and ohysics, not much chance involved.

The difference between understanding a long vetted scientific theory and believing what uncle Henry says about god, is astronomical, and yet, you can't tell the difference?

You're right, I haven't studied physics, nor am I worried that you're an expert on the subject either.

I don't really stand passionately on either side of the points I made in my earlier post about a universe by chance or whether something created it. I believe the correct stance is to accept that neither theory can be proven right or wrong. However it grates at me when one side dismisses the other, because at that point the person who's being dismissive is also being an idiot, because they haven't got a clue what they're talking about.

If you passionately believe that it's impossible that the theory that something/one didn't create the universe, again i'll sit here and wait for this concrete proof you have. Don't leave me in suspense too long though.

a reply to: saint4God

IMH- There is no reason for science & religion to be mutually exclusive. Scientists are akin to those who participate in Bible study. Studying both is nothing more than learning how & why our world exists and works. Both look outside themselves seeking knowledge & understanding. If God divinely wrote the Bible, he also created microorganisms. Why is it not possible to seek the divine in all living creatures?

That aside, there is no place in a public university to squelch any idea scientific, divine or otherwise. A professor has no business in your personal faith. It is their job only to guide & instruct students in his or her area of expertise.

~LB

a reply to: Woodcarver

You said mind, not BRAIN actiivty... Here's a question for you, are you stating that the only place in the entire UNIVERSE that the same frequency of energy that travels through your nervous system exists, is your brain?

NO ONE knows what the mind IS let alone what creates it. EVERYTHING about it, is pure conjecture...

Jaden

a reply to: jamespond

There is a third possibility... It didn't have to come from nothing.

The entire concept of beginning and end does not necessarily have to be anything other than a human construct.

It's possible that everything always just was. No need for a creation or destruction, just constant change.

Jaden

a reply to: Woodcarver

Yeah, there's a WHOLE lot of assumption thrown in to come to their conclusions...Especially as it relates to cosmology...

An example of that is supposed red and blue shift indicating a continuing accleration of the expansion of the universe... That's a huge assumption that in some circles is even officially starting to come under fire.

Jaden

a reply to: jamespond

The other possibility is the universe has ALWAYS EXISTED....for anything to exist it must be the thing that exist and is observable.

a reply to: saint4God

"Public Universities Don't Want Science Students To Believe In God"

Nether does God.

Science and God always seems to follow a contradictory path.

Science rationally explains the questions we seek about life and God the leading answers in the right way.

But , some scientists believe they are gods in there own way.

One who's religious and a scientist will always stop experimenting when the lives of our own are at stake.

The Mad scientists will therefore destroy, and do it all over again make the same mistakes twice or more.

The unknown spiritual forces of the universe will always play a key role at the boundaries of science,wether a scientist believes in it or not.

It's the unknown factor if he succeeds or fails in discovering how the universe we live in works.

I think scientists who do believe in God are the most prominent and promising scientist in the future to come..

originally posted by: saint4God

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: saint4God

The public universities these days prefer to teach people how to hate one another, and to play the victim. Christian ideals wouldn't fit well with that.

If the term Christian means "one who follows Christ" (as I believe it does) then there is very much the conflict as Jesus said:

"You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," Matthew 5:43

Quite accurate! Loving those who are different isn't at all what they teach, even though they claim to care about "tolerance" and "diversity".

a reply to: 0bserver1

"Science and God always seems to follow a contradictory path."

Actually science and religion have a remarkable amount in common.

Science thinks humans are special.

Science casts out heretics and persecutes all other religions.

Science reveres its own saints.

Science makes up stories to explain our origins.

Science has its own code of ethics.

Science has its own priesthood.

Science is based on established dogmas.

Science will bend to accommodate modern trends.

Most of science is unfounded.

Science requires faith.

And those are only the top 10 similarity's.

listverse.com...

originally posted by: jamespond

originally posted by: Woodcarver


You can really only imagine two possible ways? And one of those is jesus done it, and the other is jesus didn't do it.

Wow, just wow

I'll sit here and wait while you point to the part of my post where I mentioned anything about Jesus!!!

Before we start to make further assumptions, this is probably a good point for me to mention that i'm not a Christian.

Your caual use of terminology leads me to believe you have never studied physics or understand what a theory is. We have come to our current understanding of a natural progression of our cosmology because that is what we observe. It is all chemistry and ohysics, not much chance involved.

The difference between understanding a long vetted scientific theory and believing what uncle Henry says about god, is astronomical, and yet, you can't tell the difference?

You're right, I haven't studied physics, nor am I worried that you're an expert on the subject either.

I don't really stand passionately on either side of the points I made in my earlier post about a universe by chance or whether something created it. I believe the correct stance is to accept that neither theory can be proven right or wrong. However it grates at me when one side dismisses the other, because at that point the person who's being dismissive is also being an idiot, because they haven't got a clue what they're talking about.

If you passionately believe that it's impossible that the theory that something/one didn't create the universe, again i'll sit here and wait for this concrete proof you have. Don't leave me in suspense too long though.

You are the one who brought up the false dichotomy and claimed the possibility of the universe being created by god.

Did you miss the part where i said it is impossible to prove that things don't exist? Anything!! You cannot logically prove that anything DOESN'T exist. It is impossible. And you replied from the same post where i stated that, so i know you read it. Did you not retain it or do you just not believe me?