Neil DeGrasse Tyson Blames The School System For Flat Earthers

Flat Earth "discussions" are actually a good vehicle for separating those with critical thinking skills from those who merely reject anything "mainstream". Point out the flaws in their "points" and they will shift gears to another "point." Point out a point that they cannot address (the elevation of Polaris, for example) and they will ignore it and say that travel to Antarctica is restricted so that means the Earth is flat.

I don't particularly care for Neil but he is making an observation which is quite obvious.

a reply to: Phage

Point out a point that they cannot address (the elevation of Polaris, for example) and they will ignore it and say that travel to Antarctica is restricted so that means the Earth is flat.

Damn. You stole my thunder Phage. I was sure that point would convince everyone the earth is indeed flat. That, and this "fake" picture of Gemini...

Oh wait...it's not fake. They used a wide angle lens to produce curvature.

a reply to: NthOther

If someone imparted absolute truth to you and you chose to believe them, would you in turn be thinking like them or only alongside them because the information remains true regardless?

I don't think the schools are at fault. It's the internet itself. I do not believe the Earth is flat however, in my earlier years I will admit that some of the talking points had me wondering "hmmm, is it possible"? The internet is very scary in the fact that anyone can truly sound like they know what they are talking about.

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
network dude

But... is that not the beauty inherent in the first amendment ? I mean, if we start dictating what people say or believe because there is a potential for unwanted behavior, where does that leave liberty?

Just about anything can be dangerous. I fail to comprehend, apparently.

I agree that we, as US citizens, have the right to say whatever we feel like saying. And nobody here is wanting to silence anyone, but as a potential leader, those with fringe views, need to accept responsibility for what they say and how they say it. If the nutters who think they are being sprayed, stopped at that, it would be harmless, but when they organize and discuss ways to harm pilots, shoot down planes, or do something illegal and immoral all for a cause they can only justify with a hugely paranoid mind, it becomes much more of a problem. If it's all harmless, I doubt anyone would care. Flat earth seems harmless enough, it's fun to ask that one question that will shut them down every time, but it gets old.

originally posted by: HawkeyeNation
I don't think the schools are at fault. It's the internet itself. I do not believe the Earth is flat however, in my earlier years I will admit that some of the talking points had me wondering "hmmm, is it possible"? The internet is very scary in the fact that anyone can truly sound like they know what they are talking about.

That's why it's important that people learn to think for themselves, and question everything. It's not the internet's fault, it's people fault, for not using critical thought.

a reply to: eisegesis

I find the comments by NDT to be symptomatic of an academic who has too long been away from education. Everything he talks about is what already happens. The last 10 years in particular have seen a huge shift towards emphasising criticality and analytical skills in the education system from relatively young ages in the hopes of improving performance at university level and beyond.

Unfortunately it has coincided (or perhaps even contributed to) the age of the special snowflake. The content (or the actual learning as we would have known it 40 years ago) is now secondary to the skills we thought we wanted our students to possess. That results in a set of students reaching university with highly developed sense of self belief and self importance but very deficient basic knowledge.

In trying to improve later education we have actually made it worse. Education pre university should be about providing a grounding that allows the student to either function in society or continue into their 'true' education.

Personally I always thought the flat earth thing was a joke. Surely no one really believes that's true?

a reply to: eisegesis

Thing is that there is and was an educational model designed to teach this:

And at no time are you actually trained how to think, how to analyze, how to process information, how to judge information.”

It's called the Classical Educational model. It was used a lot during the years of the greatest advancements of the Renaissance and Enlightenment Era. Our Founders were likely taught using this model along with many. many others.

It is making a comeback, but someone like DeGrasse Tyson would not appreciate it because you mainly find it in private religious schools these days. That is not to say it must be a religious curriculum because it doesn't have to be, but it is being revived by both homeschooling and religious communities as a model that worked well for training the mind to do just what he complains it isn't taught to do.

a reply to: Phage

You remain my internet hero...

-Christosterone

a reply to: ketsuko

It isn't solely in those kinds of schools but the freedom from imposed curricula and standardised testing allows it to be explored more easily. I make use of the Socratic method a lot myself with students. The traditional Socratic double circle is still an effective education method today.

a reply to: cheesyleps

Which is going to be more effective at it? Having one teacher use it during the course of a class or having your entire pre-K through 12 years set up specifically with training your mind to absorb, analyze and form logical arguments from the information you take in?

Of course, any exposure and training in it at all is good, but my point is that the entire aim of education was to train the mind to be able to think about and analyze what it sees and processes as easily as you or I might read a road sign.

Too many kids these days think that if they feel good about it, they've critically thought it through.

a reply to: ketsuko

Too many kids these days think that if they feel good about it, they've critically thought it through.

Unfortunately, it isn't just kids.

He's saying the earth isn't flat?

What happens when a government lies to it's people over and over and over and over again? They don't stop believing anything, they start believing everything.

Reality has been shattered for most because the vast majority of out existence takes place in this strange pool we call civilization that doesn't bear a lot of resemblance to the way the world truly operates. When you literally live in fantasy land it stands to reason your mind won't be tethered too tightly to the (flat, I guess) ground.

NDT may be well educated in a specific scientific field and I love his enthusiasm for it, but his thought process seems to be very one dimensional on anything he can't plug into an equation.

originally posted by: HawkeyeNation
I don't think the schools are at fault. It's the internet itself. I do not believe the Earth is flat however, in my earlier years I will admit that some of the talking points had me wondering "hmmm, is it possible"? The internet is very scary in the fact that anyone can truly sound like they know what they are talking about.

I agree, it's the internet. A small subset of the population was bound to believe it for whatever reason. conspiracy prone, government paranoid, schizotypal, etc.

Flat earthers are a 2 fold issue.

Issue 1, no one trusts NASA or the government.

Issue 2, everyone is eating and drinking to many chemicals and it's making them really stupid.

a reply to: onequestion

1) No one? In any case, people have known the world is round since before there was a United States, much less NASA.

2) People have been eating and drinking chemicals since before there was a United States, much less NASA.

a reply to: Phage

not in the same capacity and im talking about the modern world

The 3 stages of truth... 1) It is ridiculed, 2) It is violently opposed, 3) It becomes common knowledge. That said I will state; The true nature of out very reality is not known by the public at large. i.e. 99.999% TPTB stay in power not by money but by having the key to our reality. but what do I know....
LOL
a reply to: eisegesis