High School Boy Wins All-State Honors In Girls Track And Field

a reply to: Profusion

If she identifies as a female, then she should be able to compete as a female, I have children and I am not out-raged by this.

Good for her

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

Brain is gender. Sex is physical.

*golf clap*

Guess what? Sports are also physical. This person has a sex that does not match the other competitors in a physical event. Because his sex does not match, he has physical differences that in other venues and for others of his sex would give them an outsize physical advantage against the females he is competing against. The girls in this race are merely lucky this male is apparently a wimp. Most competent males at a sport would win, hands down.

When it comes to sports, these things should be divided by sex, not what "gender" you think you are because sports are physical competitions. If he wants to compete against the girls as a girl, he needs to take up equestrian or move into the realm of academic competition or find a co-ed league.

I wouldn't want to challenge your status as arbiter of everything to do with sport ... but the International Olympic Committee apparently disagrees with your ... summation:

Rio 2016: Olympic body changes transgender guidelines

Now transgender athletes look set to compete at the Olympic Games for the first time without first having to undergo gender reassignment surgery. Medical chiefs at the International Olympic Committee (IOC) have recommended the change which could mean transgender athletes would be more readily able to take part in this summer's Olympics in Rio de Janeiro as well as other international events.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

The advantage is there. PERIOD... It may be psychological in some aspects, in physical sports like track, soccer, football etc. it has to do with guess what? Physical things, like hip size and position, and other biomechanical differences.

People need to really get off this kick that anyone can do anything as good as others... No, they can't...

This freak wouldn't have been able to finish in the top fifteen in the men's category...

Jaden

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

Are you suggesting that males are naturally faster than females?

In general, of course they are. The male body is built with (remember, this is all "in general") more height, more weight, stronger muscles, etc. Physically, yes, men are generally superior to women in most sports. This is not a sexist comment, it's backed up by most sports when you look at those who hold records in different sports or events, and when it comes to running, the average pace/speed of runners in male and female categories.

I've never understood segregated sports besides martial arts.
For obvious reasons.

If the reasons are obvious in martial arts, then they should be obvious in most sports. Same goes for age groups in running events--they are usually split up by age groups so that similar abilities compete against each other. How would it make sense to put a 65-year-old who runs a 5k in 35 minutes up against a 23-year-old running one in 18 minutes?

Physiologically speaking, there are myriad differences between males and females--enough to make it logical to split the two sexes and have them compete against themselves. After the competition is complete, if they want to compare their time or skills against the other sex and keep a tally, that's their prerogative, but I find it highly questionable that you (and others) pretend that there is not enough difference between men and women to separate them in physical competitions--especially in the K-12 grade levels of amateur competition.

Where is the advantage for men.

I suppose NFL would be difficult with 300lb giants steaming in to women.


But running?

What a joke to be outraged over.

There is an inbetween concerning outrage or compliance. Most of us fall into that category, and that includes the logical argument that, in general, there is enough physiological difference that segregating by sex solely for competitive purposes is a smart thing to do, unless you want the majority of girls growing up to never experience what it means to come in first place when competing against similar individuals.

Hate that generalization all you want, but it's reality.

a reply to: mOjOm

no, no one is saying that ALL men are faster than ALL women...lol. Your argument holds no validity.. That he didn't absolutely dominate the females simply means, he wasn't a very good male athlete...lol. That doesn't in any way preclude the advantages he had over the female athletes.

Those advantages are real and undeniable.

Jaden

a reply to: mOjOm

You will ALWAYS have biological, specifically, biomechanical differences... that is irrespective of hormone therapies...

A man's hips will NEVER widen or develop a birth canal...lol.

A woman's will never narrow...

Jaden

a reply to: AMPTAH

how about instead, you go by biological gender or if you really want equality, you eliminate gender as a basis for competition???

Oh, that's right, then men would be winning practically everything, which is why there were separate female competitions setup in the first place...

Oh no, I know, it didn't have anything to do with physical reality, it was a byproduct of mysogenic society...GTFO...

Jaden

so some here are saying because its running its ok... what if next time the self identified female wants to play girls soccer... or wrestling.. or some sort of contact sport against females?

Is that still ok or is that where the line gets drawn?

Once you green light 1 sport you open every sport to the possibilities.

originally posted by: Spader
a reply to: Profusion

She/He was born 30 years too late. And in the wrong country.

Been better off being born in West Germany or some other Soviet Block Country.

This is going to get out of control very quickly.

And NO. I don't agree with the blanket batroom rule or how many public changing rooms it may apply too.

I don't have a problem with LGBT individuals. Just don't abuse the system.

west germany or some other Soviet Block Country did not use transgenders.

They use intersex athletes with disorders like swyer syndrome, androgen insensitivity syndrome, or CAIS where The person is born externally female but has XY chromosomes.

I hate to segregate people even further than we already do, but- and tell me if you think this is a # idea, I can take it- You know how we have reg. olympics and special olympics? Maybe we can have like a transgender olympics, and a transgender division of sports?

Just a quick 2 cents, haven't really given it much thought.

-Alee.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yes, I understand that you are extremely happy to let everyone else in the world decide things for you and tell you your opinions if they say they are "experts." I've understood this for a while, but I also know that for a while the Supreme Court of the United States also felt it was proper for black people to be considered, not humans, but pieces of property, too.

In a word, people, despite their fancy sounding labels and degrees, can be wrong.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: Profusion

If she identifies as a female, then she should be able to compete as a female, I have children and I am not out-raged by this.

Good for her

There is a brief point where girls are perfectly physically capable of competing against the boys. This is because they start to take off in their accelerated development toward maturity before boys do. So a for about a three to four year window, the two genders are relatively equal. Girls might even have a slight advantage, but once you hit high school, the boys catch up and pass the girls in ability quickly.

But running?

What a joke to be outraged over.

Do yourself a favor and go look up the world records for running events and ask yourself why they both separate out men's and women's times and why there isn't a single woman's time faster than a man's in any category.

Then ask yourself if it's still such a joke.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Clearly his mom never whooped his ass not my fault that I recognize it, I guess I'm just that awesome.

He obviously has no respect for other people.

I'm guessing as a male born in the US that he/she was circumcised as a baby, are you ok with that? Sorry for being off topic slightly but if you're saying it's child abuse to mess about with the kids gender then it is to cut them too in my opinion.

In both cases let them make the decision for themselves as adults.

originally posted by: Profusion

High school girls in Alaska are crying foul after a male sprinter took home all-state honors in girls’ track and field. According to local reports, it was the first time in Alaskan history that a male athlete competed in the girls’ state championships.

Haines senior Nattaphon Wangyot–who self-identifies as a girl–advanced to the state finals in the 100-meter and 200-meter events. He won fifth place in the 100-meter dash and third place in the 200-meter. In both events, he competed against girls as young as ninth grade.
High School Boy Wins All-State Honors In Girls Track And Field

I can watch this kind of stuff as a tragic comedy because I have no children and I never will. Anyone with children should be outraged by this in my opinion.

I can't even relate to what's going on in people's minds when I read something like this. Now, the Olympics won't be worth watching anymore in many sports (except where cheating via being transgender is naturally precluded).

The issue of transgender athletes recently gained wider global attention when Bruce Jenner, the 1976 Olympic decathlon champion, announced he had undergone gender reassignment surgery and was now living as a woman, Caitlyn Jenner.

Now transgender athletes look set to compete at the Olympic Games for the first time without first having to undergo gender reassignment surgery.

Medical chiefs at the International Olympic Committee (IOC) have recommended the change which could mean transgender athletes would be more readily able to take part in this summer's Olympics in Rio de Janeiro as well as other international events.
Rio 2016: Olympic body changes transgender guidelines

There's a related issue that I want to discuss. There should be an age of consent for changing one's gender. Children should not be having their gender changed by their parents; it is child abuse in my opinion. There is an age of consent for sex because people under a certain age have no comprehension of sex, and they do not have the ability to take responsibility for the consequences of sex. How is having one's gender changed any different? I believe having one's parents attempt to change their gender is one of the most drastic and potentially damaging things that can ever happen to a person. It should be illegal for parents to change their children's gender because children cannot consent to it. I don't know what the age of consent for a gender change should be, but children should not be subjected to it, ever. When it comes to a sex change or any gender change, children have no way of comprehending what they're doing or what the consequences of their actions are.

Children do not have the ability to consent to a gender change. Therefore, allowing parents to change their child's gender is morally and ethically wrong, and it should be illegal.

Mens results olympics 200 meter dash

Womans results 200 meter dash, same time period

So the very slowest man would be way, way ahead of the women - The women may as well not have an event if we start combining genders. The guy who got in 51st place ran .02 seconds slower than the woman that received gold.

But, let's not bring that up in the trans-debates and athletics, it's too logical. It offends the left too much.

Men have better rankings in almost all track and field sports, it's just known. We can debate it, it can offend you, it doesn't matter.

We need to start labeling things "XY" and "XX" as chromosomes are only messed up in like .001% of situations.

a reply to: Freija

Seem very coherent to me! Thanks for the response and I asked you the question specifically due to your unique connection to the subject matter. I appreciate your personal opinion/input as it provides a basis of understanding.

I do agree that the sensationism the media gives these stories adds to the dissonance we seem to be experiencing as a society. Also in accordance to what you said, every situation is unique and should be treated as such. I pride myself in being an open minded individual who wants to live peacefully and respectfully with everyone calling planet Earth home.

With that in mind though, coming from my personal perspective, the individual athlete mentioned in the OP is the exact reason that the societal dissonance continues. I myself am an accomplished former high school/collegiate Division 1 football and track and field athlete. I ran the exact races the OP athlete ran (100 and 200 Meter dash) and can give insight to training and preparation methods if anyone is interested. I worked hard at my sport for my own personal growth. I made sure that everytime I put my racing spikes on, it was for one reason. To improve.

Something as basic as a sports competition between women, becomes a conversation of translating gender. Honestly, does it not seem to become a deciphering of "Who is Nattaphon Wangyot?" That to me THAT is an unnecessary equation in the field of competitive sports. THAT is the dissonance in this subject.

To put it bluntly, Nattaphon Wangyot is not a girl.

To be direct, Nattaphon Wangyot should not be racing against females.

To be politically incorrect, it's crazy.

I'm trying to understand. I'm trying to grasp this. I'm very aware that change exists. I'm sympathetic to the challenges we all face as a society.

This one simply makes no sense to me.

Eventually this will run up against Money. Meaning, someone will lose a scholarship, a Title, a prize, something which actually matters. And they will sue, and sanity will be forced back into the equation.

a reply to: Profusion

So this is really just a male inferiority and female superiority post right?

I mean that is the only option here. She made 5th place, meaning 4 other girls beat her. The only possible assumptions here are that either, as male born, the competitor was still inferior to 4 women. Or you could admit that she was comparable in physical prowess to the other girls. There is a middle ground however. It could be that every individual is different and nuanced. Hormone replacement therapy will reduce muscle mass and the ability to build muscle in the same way as the previously could under the influence of testosterone. You could argue that bone density will stay the same but in reality it won't. MtF trans girls LOSE bone density over time due to the influence of estrogen. Bone shape, no, but density yes. Also if one starts treatment early enough in childhood they never have the chance to develop male musculature or bone structure.

Finally, the amount of sexism in this thread is appalling. I, a cisgender female marital artist, must still somehow be inferior although I have literally never lost a match to a guy. Crawl out of your simple little delusions and societal programming to see things for what they are.

a reply to: kngfc

It doesn't make sense.

I was a Div. I hurdler, high jumper and heptathlete myself.

There is a reason women go over shorter hurdles and do a hep as compared to a decathlon. We also tend to not jump anywhere near as high as the men in high jump although our technique is the same.

Believe me, I had excellent hurdle technique, better than our male hurdlers, but none of that was going to put me over the finish line ahead of them in a head to head.