Handout or no? Swiss mull $2,500 monthly income for all

a reply to: syrinx high priest

must be nice for them knowing were there to keep them safe huh?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Communism.

Why not call it what it is.

Communism.

its not communism, lol. Think of it as a really high minumum wage

what are you so afraid of ?

a reply to: syrinx high priest

I'm not Swiss, I don't care.

But I will call out everyone that candy-coats communism.

a reply to: onequestion

I had to go look at what I posted to get the context of your quote. I'm going off statins, lol

They have a true "well armed militia" system that I admire a great deal and enough of a military to defend themselves. The real reason nobody messes with them is the neutrality philosophy and the banking discretion tho

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: syrinx high priest

I'm not Swiss, I don't care.

But I will call out everyone that candy-coats communism.

duly noted. what about a minimum income makes it communism ?

a reply to: syrinx high priest

What part if "It's not sustainable" did you not understand?

Have you looked at the population figures and GDP, tax levels in Switzerland?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: syrinx high priest

What part if "It's not sustainable" did you not understand?

Have you looked at the population figures and GDP, tax levels in Switzerland?

I didn't reply to your unsustainable comment. Its not communism

Critics warn that the policy would explode the state budget. The Swiss government itself advises voters to reject the proposal, and polls suggest it will fail in a country known for free-market policies and a high-tech, capitalistic financial sector. Proponents, however, insist the time has come for a minimum monthly wage as sweeping 21st-century economic changes like robots displacing factory workers make jobs more precarious in the digital age. They say they're seeking momentum more than outright victory. Read more at: phys.org...

please show me lenin and trotsy's communism that included free markets and capitalistic financial industries

a reply to: pryingopen3rdeye

but its all sitting in bank accounts being horded by the wealthy depreciating in value as currencies inflate a

The wealthy buy assets that keep working for them while they're asleep - they dont leave it in bank accounts. You know little of the way the world works

our society is designed to add wealth to the wealthy, basic income would not be maintainable unless that where changed to redistribute wealth evenly,

What society and what sector of society are you talking about? The taxation system usually favours the very rich as they are seen as the "creators of employment" Though "efficiencies" man will be replaced by machines as often as they can as less down time bah blah for factories.

The test then becomes how do we create a post industrial society to give people meaningful work, (if any work is available) how do we pay for social security and health care with declining birth rates and commensurate eroding tax base?

redistribute wealth evenly

define "evenly"

define "distribute" by stealth? (inflation) trickle down economics!? (cough cough)

by whom? Some Marxist in the central Politburo?

define wealth - (what others have?) and whatyou want to take from them.

We're now into the 2nd generation of intergenerational unemployment here in Aust. Its not getting better, no motivation to break the "cycle"

a reply to: syrinx high priest

Their free market would have to cease to exist in order to pay for the wage.

As it stands, it is unsustainable. Only way it would even be remotely feasible would be to have the government take control of all industry and tax at 100%.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: syrinx high priest

Their free market would have to cease to exist in order to pay for the wage.

As it stands, it is unsustainable. Only way it would even be remotely feasible would be to have the government take control of all industry and tax at 100%.

wrong. You should read the article. I guess I will have to give it to you a little at a time

Switzerland's basic income push is among the most advanced in Europe. The Dutch city of Utrecht wants to start a two-year experiment with a similar plan, handing money to residents who already receive welfare benefits. Ralph Kundig, president of the Swiss chapter of the Basic Income Earth Network, said some economists favored the idea as a way to underpin consumption and support the economy. "Our parents, grandparents and beyond worked hard so that we could produce more by working less, with machines and so forth," Kundig said. "The only thing that they did not foresee was that this wealth would only benefit the owners of the means of production." Kundig said studies and pilot projects show people wouldn't just sit at home and do nothing. Basic income is much more of a stimulant to employment and the economic activity of a country," he said, adding it would increase entrepreneurship because people would be less afraid about losing jobs and more willing to take risks.

Read more at: phys.org... more at: phys.org...

a reply to: syrinx high priest

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'll still call this a precursor to communism.

You can call it whatever you want.

a reply to: onequestion

OMG the Swiss are going to get fat lazy and eat themselves to death without leaving the couch.

Yeah its great how the complaining comes form an American.

haha..good sarcasm. I wonder which nation you're actually referring to "Land of McDonalds" per chance? The nation that goes in and robs other nations of their resources, "exports its inflation" through international trade, keeps itself afloat only as a consequence of the $US petro-dollar?

The one that has no "social security safety net", whose streets are starting to resemble some shanty towns in India?

The one that has had a corporate fascism military industrial Big Pharma machine calling the shots - because it certainly ain't the Voters of the USA!!!

It's great how its people look around the world trying to pigeon hole whether its Marxism or not - failing to the see the Marxists policies that "bailed out the TOO BIG TO FAIL" banks....hahahaha...you cant see whats in front of your faces

a reply to: DBCowboy

Your perspective isn't reflective of the modern paradigm its of an older age where machines and globalization played less of a roll.

There is no stopping the inevitability of this happening world wide.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: syrinx high priest

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'll still call this a precursor to communism.

You can call it whatever you want.

You are looking in the wrong direction.

You need to think 100 years in the future, not 100 years in the past.

Its a minimum income. It's in the article. One of the proposed benefits is more entrepreneurship. Another proposed benefit is a baseline of spending. Robots don't go shopping.

This is a very interesting idea.

There will be problems, pitfalls and shortcomings, but replacing people with machines puts an economy, any economy capitalist or otherwise into a death spiral.

This is one way to think about dealing with that

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: DBCowboy

Your perspective isn't reflective of the modern paradigm its of an older age where machines and globalization played less of a roll.

There is no stopping the inevitability of this happening world wide.

I have no doubt.

I'm just lucky I won't be alive to see it.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The government would have to own everything and tax 100% just to pay out the "living wage" to it's population.

You're a true "believer". You've swallowed the "red fear" menace pill. 100% of everything? exaggerate much?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

they would have to control prices to prevent hyper inflation and rental cost.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: DBCowboy

The government would have to own everything and tax 100% just to pay out the "living wage" to it's population.

You're a true "believer". You've swallowed the "red fear" menace pill. 100% of everything? exaggerate much?

Look at the population, the GDP, taxes collected and percentages taxed.

Then do the math.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

they would have to control prices to prevent hyper inflation and rental cost.

I think inflation is a very real issue here. If everybody has purchasing power, the price will only go one direction.

But if machines replace people and you have less spending overall, prices may fall but margins will likely fall with them

I would love to see them do the 2 year study in that city

a reply to: DBCowboy

But I will call out everyone that candy-coats communism.

Well how about calling out your Corporate Fascism Military govt that runs your country - more like Fascism to me. Kills its young in foreign lands for Oil (cough cough terrorists). Washington's starting to smell like Russian Oligarchy to me!

Lets not forget the Bush Diebold voting machine fraud - but hey worry about Swiss "Communism", why look into your own backyard?

Denial much?

Quick under the beds the Swiss Commies are coming....How dare they look after their own citizens - hahahaha