Alien Assault in Dechmont Woods, Scotland? : Revisiting the Bob Taylor UFO Encounter

Back when i was a nipper every house had some of this in it and I'm guessing it was still pretty prevalent in the late 70s as we hadn't reached the point where take aways et al had become that common as a main meal.

I wonder if this is what is meant by ""cornstarch? It is a white powdery substance that i mostly remember being used as a thickener for gravy.

Cornstarch

a reply to: FireMoon

I think that might be corn flour.

a reply to: ctj83

No, Firemoon is right, it is a white powder used in cooking to thicken sauces and it is the extracted starch of the kind of 'corn' that would also be called 'maize'...

..."corn flour" is ground up maize and is used to make tortillas, corn bread, etc..

Of possible interest here, is that when the forensics people asked Taylor's wife about the "starch" they found on his trousers, she assumed they meant laundry starch (used to 'stiffen' fabric while ironing), but that kind of starch comes in a spray can and would not be visible as a "white powder" (as was described in the report)...

...so far the only viable solution to the presence of corn starch comes from the person who posted about it's past use by medical personnel in donning rubber gloves - but although this speaks to the probability of some sort of psy op having been perpetrated on Taylor, I think that hinges on how much corn starch there was visible on his trousers.

a reply to: lostgirl

I suspect there is a cultural divide here. You know like potato chips are known as crisps in the UK and (although we do have fries) we generally call them chips.

"Corn flour" is used as a thickening agent in gravy etc in the UK and is pretty similar if not the same as corn starch across the Atlantic. I think it may also be used in making batter.

Whether that clarifies anything I don't know.

a reply to: lostgirl

The corn flour in my larder would disagree. For what it's worth, masa is what we would use to make tortillas. Perhaps Mirage know, but did we use to call corn flour, corn starch?

I can only think corn starch would relate to laundry or surgical gloves. Neither make much sense in this though do they?

a reply to: ctj83

Well, the specific words "corn starch" were used in the forensic report, and since Taylor's wife ruled out it's being related to her laundering 'methods', it would have to either be connected to surgical gloves or some source that certainly defies my imagination...

As far as surgical gloves, the only possibilities I can think of is the encounter was a pay-op (the perpetrators using gloves in 'handling' the victim), or the forensic team managed to 'contaminate' the trousers with corn starch from gloves they would have been wearing...

a reply to: lostgirl

This is where cases like this have the benefits of hindsight. Outdoor workers don't change their trousers every day and this incident occurred on the Friday. It's not out of the question that he could have worn them for several days according to weather and jobs he had done. Maybe Mrs Livingstone had used corn flour earlier in the week and Bob had gotten it on his trousers through that? When I use flour or corn flour, it's not uncommon to get some on the kitchen top. Could Bob have used his hands to brush some off the worktop and, naturally, brush his hands off on the tops of his keks?

If we had a do-over, it would have been useful to have asked them if corn flour had been used at all in the previous days. Perhaps looking at how much flour was used in gloves too. I've used them a few times and the powder is minimal and not enough to stand out on a pair of trousers. Of course, back then could have been different.

ETA - coincidentally, whilst Bob was having his experience, NORAD were having a major 'false positive' of a nuclear strike by the Soviets. link

a reply to: Kandinsky

....coincidentally, whilst Bob was having his experience, NORAD were having a major 'false positive' of a nuclear strike by the Soviets

Thank god that never came to anything!

I think all this talk about cornflour could be as simple as Bob perhaps having a packed lunch made with fresh bread sprinkled with the stuff. Maybe he'd even made it himself and hence traces were found on his trousers. Sometime the minute details need to be looked into but are ultimately totally irrelevant to the case.

a reply to: mirageman

The spiked balls make no sense to me. As described, it doesn't seem possible or practical for the balls to propel themselves. Yet we have the police sketch of the tracks, so I don't know how to reconcile that.

a reply to: ctj83

A lot of the story makes no sense. The M8 motorway is literally a couple of hundred yards away but no one else saw a thing during mid-morning. If it was all an hallucination then how do we explain the ripped trousers and the marks in the ground?
Add to that that the 'craft' was nothing like any other alleged UFO sighting I know of.

That's why it's one of my favourite cases.It's all very "Twilight Zone".

a reply to: ctj83

The spiked balls make no sense to me. As described, it doesn't seem possible or practical for the balls to propel themselves.....

It seems there was a theory going back some years now (approx 2001) in "Strange Times" (see IsaacKoi's thread : “Strange Daze” and “Strange Times” magazines (UK, c1993-2002, Gloria Heather Dixon) - PDFs

The specific magazine can be downloaded here : Strange Times - No.1 (free pdf - 18mb download)

There is a feature on the Bob Taylor case in that magazine quoting emails sent to British (and Scottish) UFO researcher Malcolm Robinson.

Matthew Williams who informed me that he remembers watching a programme on T.V. some months back, (he thinks it was an Equinox programme which was on Channel 4 in wh ich they were informing their viewers about various new Military inventions (exotic weaponry ideas and prototypes which were never actually put into any use). He recalls that it featured a device like a round ball which could jump about by punching out pegs fr om it's side. This immediately reminded him of the Livingston Incident.........

.....There are two Military installations near Livingston, one was a nuclear bunker at Wilkiston near East Calder and the other was to the north of Livingston close to where Bob had his experience..........]The MoD facility at Livingston was important enough to have a railway spur installed from the Edinburgh to Glasgow main line directly into the Depot. It is also interesting to note that shortly after Bob's Incident, British Aerospace announced they would cease research and development into unmanned anti­ tank vehicles. (see Jane's World Air­craft about this period for similar American devices). I think this is what Bob experienced.....

A quick web search has not turned up much. Maybe someone else remembers?

a reply to: mirageman

Such a military device, with balls that project spikes and assault and tear a mans clothes, occurs in Rendlesham Forrest in Ralph Noyes in 'A Secret Property'

New dramatisation and police statements about Robert Taylor's pants (now in BUFORA archives).

The police reports stated:

"The marks indicated an object of several tons had stood there but no information has been gained to explain them."

After the investigation Wark was in no doubt. He said:

"In my opinion, Mr Taylor genuinely reported what he saw, or believed that he had seen."

He confirmed again later:

"We are still baffled... the case is still open."

The police sent Bob Taylor's trousers to Edinburgh for forensic analysis. Lester Knibb, a forensic scientist in the police's laboratory, found clear tear marks on either side, consistent with the witness's story about being grabbed at waist height by the two spiky sea mines.

Of course the police lab could not say that this should prove anything, but Knibb said:

"The damage could have been caused in the way the witness says. But it would require something mechanical. It was not something caused by an electric shock or bolt of lightning."

To this day the police case still remains open, local authorities marked the site with a plaque, which has since been stolen, and the torn trousers are now in the BUFORA archives.]

Link

Maybe it was an elemental tree spirit protecting its children (saplings)

Just like any animal would.

a reply to: karl 12

Thanks for the update Karl. The reconstruction is well produced and good to see Nick Pope and Gary Heseltine still in gainful employment as 'expert' commentators.

As we approach the 40th anniversary of this case it's still a genuine mystery even today. Also one pleasantly free from expanding narratives and new witnesses coming forward with ever crazier stories. Something that often happens with many other 'classic' ufo cases.

It is totally baffling how Taylor's encounter happened only a hundred or so yards from the M8 motorway in broad daylight. Yet no one else saw a thing. There was physical evidence at the scene (although we don't know for definite whether it was there before Taylor's encounter.) The damage to his trousers is also an interesting conundrum.

If only that dog could have talked!

a reply to: mirageman

If only that dog could have talked mate - UFO high strangeness and all that.

Never really bought the 'astronomical mirage hypothesis' (hologram of the planet Venus) or the
'transient ischaemic attack' explanations but you're not wrong about the lack of other witneses - have always kept an eye out for other Nov 79 Scottish reports (or similar global cases) but so far not a sausage.

Don't think he was making it up and was always intrigued by the 'horrible chemical-like smell' and hissing noises being reported - apparently Scottish police are also still 'baffled' by this case and it's kept open citing 'a physical assault by person or persons unknown' - not sure we'll ever get to the bottom of it though.

Jock researcher Malcolm Robinson wrote a book about this case and also discussed it in this presentation dealing with the A70 incident - it also contained the last ever interview with Robert Taylor so it's a great shame the video keeps getting removed from the internet.

Anyway here's a 'fantastically uninteresting' visit to Dechmont law - apparently a rock and plaque were set in place by the local council but they keep getting stolen so are no longer replaced.

This remains a completely baffling case. Alongside the Kaikoura Lights from eleven months earlier, this is a classic encounter from the 70s that continues to defy standard explanations.

Interestingly, the movie 'Phantasm' (1979) was released a few months before Taylor's encounter, featuring a deadly alien inter-dimensional sphere as its unique iconic image, albeit smaller in structure.

Here is one of those bizarre 'unpacking' videos in which a very drunk northerner unveils a replica of the Phantasm sphere that came packaged with a DVD box-set...




Robert Taylor doesn't seem the type who would have waltzed into his local cinema to watch this kind of stuff, though.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Ah yes mate top movie - thought one of the 'first on the scene' UFO investigators Malcolm Robinson made some great points about Dechmont in the interview below - an object from a Dr Who episode (City Of Death) is also mentioned as well as other explanations like ball lightning, belladonna poisoning, misidentification of a water tower, military testing of a small helicopter and even a holographic mirage of the planet Venus.

The interviewers asked some pertinent questions (to my mind anyway) and apparently other disc and oval shaped UFOs were witnessed in the weeks leading up to the incident (all in a 5 mile radius of Dechmont woods), Robert Taylor was hypnotised but could not recall what occurred after his blackout and his trousers were 'torn upwards in a mechanical manner' - also found it intriguing that his dog refused to leave the house for months afterwards.

Other similar global reports are also brought up from England and Poland - in one South American case it's also stated the two globes released from the object actually exploded (will really have to find that one).

Whatever went on it's also stated Robert Taylor always carried a camera with him after his experience and never changed his story right up to his death in 2017 - pretty great interview mate and Gary Woods also gets a mention at 55:10.

[size]One of our most unusual shows. Only UFO case to receive official investigation by authorities. Hosts Tim Beckley and Tim Swartz speak live from Scotland with guest MALCOLM ROBINSON who discusses the bizarre case of Scottish forestry worker Bob Taylor. On November 9, 1979, Taylor and his dog had a close encounter with a landed, spiked, UFO that left the man unconscious and injured. The police recorded the incident as a criminal assault, making it the only UFO sighting in the UK that has been the subject to a criminal investigation. Robinson also relates some alternative explanations on what may have happened to Taylor, including the theory that the man actually suffered from hallucinations after eating poisoned berries!. Robinson For more information obtain Robinson's new book "The Dechmont Woods UFO Incident.

originally posted by: karl 12
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Ta for the extra info, Karl, much appreciated.

Ah yes mate top movie - thought one of the 'first on the scene' UFO investigators Malcolm Robinson made some great points about Dechmont in the interview below - an object from a Dr Who episode (City Of Death) is also mentioned...

Ah, yes, Douglas Adams' story (under the alias David Agnew) was first transmitted on 29th September 1979, only some forty days before Taylor's encounter...





Again, I somehow doubt Taylor was a Who fan, just as he was unlikely to physically pop into a cinema to see 'Phantasm' that year. However, one caveat is that, due to industrial action by ITV during the period in question, 'City Of Death' ended up with the highest ratings for the series ever recorded (over 16 million), especially with just two channels on air at the time. So if anybody was watching TV that Saturday (when videos were extremely rare), they WERE most likely watching a spherical spacecraft!

I think these are just odd cultural coincidences that are incidental to Taylor's incident, though, which continues to puzzle many of us.

Its this type of person, reporting this type of event, that keeps me intrigued. I cant think of any reason why he would create a story like this, Its not like anything would be gained from it.

The area mentioned, isnt exactly bustling with people now, so 40 year ago there would of been much less chance of witnesses, even near a motorway. Whatever happened, i think he honestly believes his recollection of the event, as in, hes not lying because to him it was all too real. You could put it down to a momentary delusional episode (for unknown reasons) but then the physical evidence puts weight in something clearly happening.

A very odd one this.