The fallacy of political candidates and their supporters.

Trump has said some stupid things.
Next month, he'll say some more stupid things.

It's not enough, anymore, just to simply support a candidate. You have to "identify" with the candidate. If Trump said something stupid, by association, the supporters are stupid. People don't assume that you simply support, they assume that you "identify with" the candidate.

It's the same with Hillary or Bernie. If Hillary is a lying crook, then by association, her supporters are lying crooks. Bernie an establishment socialist? So are his followers.

We all do it. We all associate the supporter with the candidate. We're all guilty.

But reality is different. We're lucky if we can find a candidate that we agree with 60% of the time.

Someone was actually surprised, in one thread, when I didn't defend something Trump said. Just because I support his run for president, doesn't mean I think he's perfect and needs to be defended 100% of the time. I still think he's better than Hillary or Bernie.

But that's just me.

Some may "identify" 100% with a candidate. Maybe that's why people get so damned touchy when "their" candidate gets criticized.

This may be more of a long-winded rant, but it pertains to politics.

so that's why I put it here.

a reply to: onequestion

thank you.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Accurate observation, in 2016 the choice for POTUS so far is either a Goose, a Cow or a Unicorn, of which any sane person could only have a lukewarm association with but collectively Americans can be dangerous if groupthink takes hold over particular sub sectors of the community.

Plenty of examples posted just in the past few weeks of otherwise normal folks morphing into snowflakes and having meltdowns at rallies for all the world to see.

For all the world to see.....

a reply to: Sublimecraft

I wonder sometimes if we've lost so much individuality that we have to "identify" as something only to stay relevant in our Insta-blog culture.

a reply to: DBCowboy

When before have we had a candidate that so many many people can easily draw similarities to Hitler? I am not doing that DC. But rather pointing out how I agree with much of your OP. It is simplistic to equate him to Hitler, but they do. I can see how they do. And, but that associative bit you focus on in the OP, the natural way to see his supporters is ??? Is???? Brown shirts. Storm troopers. This is wrong, but an easy fallacy(did I spell it right) to fall into.

Just as it is easy to simplistically pigeonhole Clinton into the Mad Megalomaniac Mother she is portrayed as by so many. It is just too easy to nail that poster to the wall and worship ones hate for her and call that a political perspective. I think that one of the things we are seeing in this election is a whole bunch of people from different sides of the isle who are ratcheting up what they think is their political awareness and acting like children.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Sublimecraft

I wonder sometimes if we've lost so much individuality that we have to "identify" as something only to stay relevant in our Insta-blog culture.

What individuality? Humans are still primitive tribal creatures. All this heah fancy technology isn't indicative of anything except some folks are actually much smarter than your average hairless ape.

www.newsweek.com...

Humans want leaders of all flavors so they can "belong" feel supported, special, and have matching hats and Tshirts. It's genetic. Cult like behavior is the norm not the exception.

a reply to: olaru12

Maybe we're too tribal.

There's something to be said for individuality.

a reply to: DBCowboy
It all boils down to people wanting to simplify their hatred. Make your enemy a caricature so that it is easier to hate them. It happens endlessly on this site, all immigrants are opportunist rapists, all religious people are brainwashed, all transgender supporters are pro-pedophilia...

And in politics all Trump supporters are racists, all Sanders supporters are communists, all Clinton supporters are stupid. And look, first responder already blamed liberals for an imaginary offense against you.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I wonder sometimes if we've lost so much individuality that we have to "identify" as something only to stay relevant in our Insta-blog culture

I wonder at this DC. I question the amount of individuality humans have in the first place. Certainly it is what many of us struggle for but from what I have gathered from my studies of historical times, just how much individuality any of us have ever had. From my perspective I think we have always identified with something, to be relevant. I am a pot scrubber for the Bishop. I am a jester for the King. I am a student of Plato and on and on.

I'm just speculating but think it is possible that what we are seeing is not a loss of individuality but an emergence into it. And with the future were are beginning to glimpse, with the Corporatization not only of commerce but the completely daunting techs and bio alterations and mind control devices and you get the picture, I think that there is even a fear, one which I share, that the future may offer no individuality at all.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I fear forced conformity, in politics, in ideology.

It offers no opportunity to grow, evolve.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: olaru12

Maybe we're too tribal.

There's something to be said for individuality.

Tell that to your family.....

little tribes....big tribes...cults....religion.....

skull and bones....not just for breakfast anymore....

a reply to: olaru12

Fair enough.

perhaps I should have used the term, "conformity".

a reply to: SargonThrall

But I don't even think the hated is legitimate. I think it is ginned up and generated by those who DO "identify" with an ideology or candidate.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I fear forced conformity, in politics, in ideology.

It offers no opportunity to grow, evolve.

And this is exactly why I used to embrace liberalism. Because this is what it, in it's highest aspirations promised. However I think it has failed. It now mostly just offers a different set of rules to conform with, which is how I always considered conservatism. Now I see them both in the same light.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: olaru12

Fair enough.

perhaps I should have used the term, "conformity".

Individuality is fine albeit rare....


I've only known 2 real "individuals" ....both were psychotic.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: DBCowboy

When before have we had a candidate that so many many people can easily draw similarities to Hitler?

Ah, perspectiveless imbeciles have been making the "politician XYZ is a new Hitler" nonsensical claims since the 70s. Nixon was compared to Hitler because of his bombing campaign in the Indochina region. Castro had several communist nations calling Reagan the new Hitler, a fascist, and the American people were manipulated like Germans were. How many loudmouthed zilches directly compared GW Bush to Hitler? Hell, even Obama has been compared to Hitler numerous times.

It's just a case of people with a lack of perspective and too much ignorance to foment real arguments latching onto the most detestable figure they can think of and comparing a politician they dislike to that figure.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The reason many supporters can't identify with a candidate 100% of the time is because they're not like us! Many of them are millionaires and they can't relate to the average family who are struggling to pay their taxes, their mortgages, their student loans, putting food on the table, paying for medical bills, the high cost of prescriptions, trying to find a decent paying job, or paying for nursing care for their elderly parents.

Think about it, if you had millions would you really feel stressed about everything I mentioned above? These candidates don't have any kind of hardships the rest of us struggle with. The interest alone on their millions can pay for their yearly expenses. Most likely trump has a maid, accountants, financial advisors and people who do his shopping. He just sits on his pompous @ss and dictates what his people will do. (He probably also thinks about what else he can plaster his name on). What possible everyday stress does he have? All he cares about is getting a financial return on his dollar.

Did you know Trump was a bully when he attended high school? He still carries that immature trait to this day!

If a world war broke out tomorrow, all these candidates would pull out every stop to keep any of their sons or relatives from being drafted. They're all chicken hawks! Just let the middle class and us poor peons sacrifice our children for their decisions and secret agendas!

I would love to see the day when we can see a middle-class non-establishment candidate run for president. Unfortunately it will never happen because the game is rigged against anyone who doesn't have the influence or money to run for office. Until money is taken out of politics, we will never have a true voice for the majority of Americans.