Head of ACLU quits after daughters were ‘visibly frightened’ by men in women’s restroom.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Those girls could have seen those trans people anywhere in a public place. Nothing magical about seeing them in a bathroom.

Wrong, because society has dictated for centuries that bathrooms--even public ones--are private places and generally segregated by sex (real sexuality, not gender of choice). When you jolt that reality out of existence, children do not adapt that quickly. Yes, they can adapt eventually, but I personally don't think that they should have to.

And for many, many people, it's not as easy to explain away as saying that a transgender person is just the same as mommy or daddy, because they're not (for obvious reasons--don't start a semantics war). And policies and laws allowing any sex to use any bathroom of choice is not the norm. And these three individuals could have easily been full-on guys going in there in male clothing.

How do you explain away that? "Oh, those are just jackasses trying to cause a problem because some places in our society are kowtowing to 0.3% of the population so that their feelings don't get hurt, even it bothers a much larger number in society. Don't worry, my children, one day your feelings might be as important as the 0.3% that is the flavor of the month right now for political purposes."

Well, you know, if you want to be honest about one aspect of it, anyhow.

Here's what I've got to say about this.

If young kids, who have not been fully socialized, i.e., brainwashed, are afraid of these people in the ladies room then these people don't belong in the ladies room.

Children have gut instincts that socialized adults ignore.

Get the weirdos out of the women's room.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Have these kids been around for centuries? They're like what, 6 years old? I have found children way more adaptable than adults, because they don't have years of baggage. Methinks it was the mom who was most upset, not the kids.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: SlapMonkey

One time when my daughter was very little, we went out somewhere public and saw a man with a disfigured face. I think he was a burn victim. He looked kind of scary and my daughter was taken aback by his appearance.

I was brought up amongst the disabled and some were disfigured.

I was taught "People are their Heart" - - - Smile and say Hi!

And that's what I teach my kids. Look past the physical, see the person - - - Smile, and say Hi!

Sometimes they're grouchy because they haven't been treated well. This is actually harder to explain.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Maybe so, but the fact remains that sudden changes and unexpected things that are different from the norm can scare children. Just because you have an unsubstantiated concern that it was the mother more than the children doesn't negate the points of my comment. You're basing your discussion with me on your personal beliefs of the situation; I'm basing mine on the reality that kids are startled and scared relatively easily, and we can't force the maturity that adults should have in these situation onto children and just say, "Oh well, kids adapt quickly. They'll be fine."

I have plenty of experience with children of abused and neglected backgrounds to know that what one kid can adapt to can send another child to the therapist because they can't mentally or emotionally handle the same situation. Just like I've mentioned in other threads on this topic--it took me years to get my son (Asperger's) comfortable using a public restroom with only guys in it. Now to add (possibly) girls into the mix, that could cause some serious problems for him while he's out in public and has to do his natural deed.

This issue is not as black and white and you present it to be, and quite honestly, I find your lack of empathy for these kids, other kids bothered by this, and other adults bothered by this to be disappointingly intolerant.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

You know as well as I do that kids are sometimes going to see things that scare them. In bathrooms, at the zoo, at the movies, maybe even at a restaurant (my daughter freaked out the first time she saw a whole boiled lobster delivered to the table next to ours). The only way to make sure they never see anything that scares them is to never take your children out in public, or to force everyone else to not do anything that might scare them. Are either of those a viable solution? I don't think so.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I'm not talking about scared, I'm talking about scarred. I'm talking about triggers that are catalysts to mental or emotional problems in children.

Yes, a boiled lobster is easy to explain away--a human being that appears similar to a woman, but is talking like a man, but in the ladies restroom, is a completely different thing, and dependent upon one's approach to this issue, not an easy one to explain away, at least not in a way that an elementary-school child can fully comprehend and be okay with.

I'm not saying that this lady's kids were scarred from the encounter, but there are many, many children out there that could be. I don't think that this is a fair trade off, just to appease a tiny slice of the human pie who may or may not have disliked the public-restroom arrangements in the first place.

But, I think we'll just continue to disagree, so I appreciate the civility in the discussion, but unless there's more to discuss, I think I'm graciously bowing out.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Okay, but I'm not going to let you have the last word on this.

I find it incredibly hard to believe a child will be scarred for life by seeing someone in a dress that has a deep voice in a bathroom for 2 minutes or less. If so, then that child has a lot of other issues that need to be addressed by a child psychologist - and maybe that child should avoid going out in public altogether, because they are likely to be scarred by a lot of other things as well.

To force a transgender person by law to use the bathroom that's wrong for them, just to appease an overly-sensitive child, is just plain silly. Fortunately, laws are moving in the direction of non-discrimination, so I suspect these overly-sensitive children (and adults) are just going to have to deal with seeing things that make them uncomfortable. Maybe the trend in schools to include gender identity in curriculums is a good thing for desensitizing these overly-sensitive children a bit, no? More knowledge means less fear.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
I find it incredibly hard to believe a child will be scarred for life by seeing someone in a dress that has a deep voice in a bathroom for 2 minutes or less. If so, then that child has a lot of other issues that need to be addressed by a child psychologist...

But that's both my premise and point--you and I don't know what has happened to all children in their past. I'm just saying that it isn't as black and white as you presented it when we started our discourse.

To force a transgender person by law to use the bathroom that's wrong for them, just to appease an overly-sensitive child, is just plain silly. Fortunately, laws are moving in the direction of non-discrimination, so I suspect these overly-sensitive children (and adults) are just going to have to deal with seeing things that make them uncomfortable. Maybe the trend in schools to include gender identity in curriculums is a good thing for desensitizing these overly-sensitive children a bit, no? More knowledge means less fear.

It's not a trend in schools--at this point, it's basically a forced mandate.

We'll just disagree that appeasing 0.3% of the population because of their feelings is better than just keeping things as they have been, which was working relatively fine for 99.7% of Americans, at least.

Word.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Non-discrimination laws allowing transgender people to use the restroom that's right for them in 18 states and over 200 cities nationwide for years now has been working fine for 100% of the population in those areas apparently. No reason why the other 32 states would be different, no?

Word back.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Non-discrimination laws allowing transgender people to use the restroom that's right for them in 18 states and over 200 cities nationwide for years now has been working fine for 100% of the population in those areas apparently. No reason why the other 32 states would be different, no?

Word back.

Continuing to claim this when you don't want to see what other women have to say in those places where you claim "100% of the population are ok with it" does not make it true. Sorry, but it doesn't. The majority of women, who for example have been raped, are not going to be ok with men being in the restroom and locker rooms with them. Men whose "interior identity" can change at any moment because of their male organs.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

Men whose "interior identity" can change at any moment because of their male organs.

That's the nuttiest thing I've heard so far, and I'm not going to dignify it with a response.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

That's the nuttiest thing I've heard so far, and I'm not going to dignify it with a response.

Of course you won't, you rather claim "it is the nuttiest thing I have ever heard' without informing yourself. There have been ATS members , including myself, who have shown videos from transgender people in which they explain they do change their identity from man to woman, and from woman to man.

Female hormone therapy is not going to stop all the male hormones that a male organ secretes. It does disrupt them, but male organs do still release male hormones in transexual people who haven't done sex reassignment.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

Men whose "interior identity" can change at any moment because of their male organs.

That's the nuttiest thing I've heard so far, and I'm not going to dignify it with a response.

But, One or Two people did it.

That proves everything.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

There is a lot of "rewriting of history" that the left has been doing for a long while now. Was there resentment from a lot of males when women were being allowed to work in male jobs? Yes, but the laws that were included about providing restrooms for women were really for their protection from the men. Women were being derided by men outside of restrooms, what do you think happened in restrooms when some men walked into women going in, or out of the restroom before women's and men's restrooms were separated?

a reply to: Dianapax

Excellent rant! Thank you! Yes indeed, we are distracted from our unifying purpose here and you nailed it!

originally posted by: Creep Thumper
Here's what I've got to say about this.

If young kids, who have not been fully socialized, i.e., brainwashed, are afraid of these people in the ladies room then these people don't belong in the ladies room.

Children have gut instincts that socialized adults ignore.

Get the weirdos out of the women's room.

If we were thinking about the kids for one second and not just about the transgendered that would be exactly what we would do. Kids don't matter anything compared to whoever the white knights on the left are championing today. But hey maybe orders will come down from Trigglypuff and they'll want to protect kids?

Until then though transgendered people are a commoditized block that thinks exactly one way, the way the left tells us they think, and god forbid anyone here or even any transgendered people from saying otherwise because then they are hateful bigoted homophobic Nazis who are on the wrong side of history and want to take away gay marriage and set America back 50 years etc ad nauseum ad hominem.

a reply to: Swills

Because they were men in the girls restroom

originally posted by: sycomix
a reply to: neo96

Yes the failure of logic in the liberal "progressive" mindset will be the end of our species. When you fool with nature, nature will fool back.

"You want ants? This is how you get ants!"

originally posted by: Butterfinger
a reply to: Swills

Because they were men in the girls restroom

The mother:

. . . . and left asking lots of questions for which I, like many parents, was ill-prepared to answer.”

Head of the ACLU - - ill-prepared to answer questions about a minority she is supposed to stand up for.

You've got prejudices? Do Not work for the ACLU.