Head of ACLU quits after daughters were ‘visibly frightened’ by men in women’s restroom.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: everyone

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: sycomix

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Parafitt

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Neither are planes, trains or automobiles. And you don't see guns in nature either. Not natural!

Planes fly in the sky, not swim in the sea.
Trains ride on tracks, not the freeway.
Automobiles are not bicycles.
Guns have restrictions on where they can be used.

Still not found in nature. We must eliminate them because they are not natural.

Here's the thing. The brain is a fascinating organ, and still a mystery as to how it all works. We know that sometimes the wiring can get messed up. That's a fact. Logic.

Some people have brains where the wiring connected to gender identity doesn't match the physical body. Those brains work just fine in every other way. People with gender dysphoria are perfectly capable of holding down jobs, raising children and living normal lives in every other way. A person who tries to live like a dog, however, is unable to function properly in a human society. So your analogy is a logic fail.

Yep and this Gender Dysphoria is nothing but messed up wires, just like schizophrenia

There is no drug that will solve gender dysphoria. You can't talk it away with therapy. You can't medicate it away. You can't pray it away. All those things have been tried and failed. This is different than something like schizophrenia.

There are a lot of mental illness that cannot be cured. What is the point you are trying to make?

We went through this exact same line of thought with homosexuals.

Everyone's brain tells them who they are. Some brains tell them their sexual orientation is to same sex.

They still get up, put their pants on one leg at a time, go to work, raise a family, etc etc etc.

Same thing with transgender. They're perfectly normal, except their brain gender doesn't match their physical sex.

Illness would indicate they can't live a normal life, going to work, raising a family, etc.

There is no illness.

Definatly not true. Your assertion that someone with a mental illness would not be capable of doing those things and therefore somehow supportive of your argument is patently wrong.

Take psychopaths for instance. Right away most think of a murderous loon while by and large this is not the case. There are loads of people out there that are diagnosed with it. They are born with it. Yet most of them lead very normal lives and are married with children, have a job, the works. That still does not take away that they have that mental illness, one that cannot be cured.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: gladtobehere

This is the new world and these girls are going to have to learn to live in it.

No, theyre not.

Theres nothing ok about grown men being in public restrooms with young girls where clothes are being removed, even if there are stalls or dividers.

Better to have lesbians in the restroom with young girls - - - then m/f transgenders because they might still have their "bits".

Fear of a body part - - - even when its not logical.

So what is this....the lesser of two evils ?

I don't use the word evil. It has religious connotations.

Fearing a body part - - - but, not a real possible predator is not logical.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: everyone

You do have a valid point to consider.

Thank you. I appreciate you making the effort of mentioning that. It makes discussions as these more honest on all sides.

originally posted by: everyone

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: everyone

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: sycomix

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Parafitt

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Neither are planes, trains or automobiles. And you don't see guns in nature either. Not natural!

Planes fly in the sky, not swim in the sea.
Trains ride on tracks, not the freeway.
Automobiles are not bicycles.
Guns have restrictions on where they can be used.

Still not found in nature. We must eliminate them because they are not natural.

Here's the thing. The brain is a fascinating organ, and still a mystery as to how it all works. We know that sometimes the wiring can get messed up. That's a fact. Logic.

Some people have brains where the wiring connected to gender identity doesn't match the physical body. Those brains work just fine in every other way. People with gender dysphoria are perfectly capable of holding down jobs, raising children and living normal lives in every other way. A person who tries to live like a dog, however, is unable to function properly in a human society. So your analogy is a logic fail.

Yep and this Gender Dysphoria is nothing but messed up wires, just like schizophrenia

There is no drug that will solve gender dysphoria. You can't talk it away with therapy. You can't medicate it away. You can't pray it away. All those things have been tried and failed. This is different than something like schizophrenia.

There are a lot of mental illness that cannot be cured. What is the point you are trying to make?

We went through this exact same line of thought with homosexuals.

Everyone's brain tells them who they are. Some brains tell them their sexual orientation is to same sex.

They still get up, put their pants on one leg at a time, go to work, raise a family, etc etc etc.

Same thing with transgender. They're perfectly normal, except their brain gender doesn't match their physical sex.

Illness would indicate they can't live a normal life, going to work, raising a family, etc.

There is no illness.

Definatly not true. Your assertion that someone with a mental illness would not be capable of doing those things and therefore somehow supportive of your argument is patently wrong.

Take psychopaths for instance. Right away most think of a murderous loon while by and large this is not the case. There are loads of people out there that are diagnosed with it. They are born with it. Yet most of them lead very normal lives and are married with children, have a job, the works. That still does not take away that they have that mental illness, one that cannot be cured.

Your arm is getting longer from reaching.

Gender is in the brain. Even the heterosexual brain. Are they mentally ill too?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: gladtobehere

This is the new world and these girls are going to have to learn to live in it.

No, theyre not.

Theres nothing ok about grown men being in public restrooms with young girls where clothes are being removed, even if there are stalls or dividers.

Better to have lesbians in the restroom with young girls - - - then m/f transgenders because they might still have their "bits".

Fear of a body part - - - even when its not logical.

So what is this....the lesser of two evils ?

I don't use the word evil. It has religious connotations.

Fearing a body part - - - but, not a real possible predator is not logical.

Fearing a body part? For one thing it's about privacy in relation to members of the opposite sec. I'm sorry your understanding of this simple thing is so incredibly skewed. That is the problem with all the supposed "progress" ... I'm sorry this is not progress its refusal to retain the norms of society which function for a reason, but then that's the whole point of what cultural Marxism does, it skews people perceptions for their own wicked purposes. Oh yah and you've learned your humanist ideology well.... No evil indeed.....
No I'm sorry that doesn't fly with me or a lot of others ... I suppose genocide in Dardur is also not evil???? If not, then what would you call it?
Anyway this isn't just pro or against transgender bathrooms it's the head of the aclu calling it.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: everyone

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: everyone

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: sycomix

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Parafitt

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Neither are planes, trains or automobiles. And you don't see guns in nature either. Not natural!

Planes fly in the sky, not swim in the sea.
Trains ride on tracks, not the freeway.
Automobiles are not bicycles.
Guns have restrictions on where they can be used.

Still not found in nature. We must eliminate them because they are not natural.

Here's the thing. The brain is a fascinating organ, and still a mystery as to how it all works. We know that sometimes the wiring can get messed up. That's a fact. Logic.

Some people have brains where the wiring connected to gender identity doesn't match the physical body. Those brains work just fine in every other way. People with gender dysphoria are perfectly capable of holding down jobs, raising children and living normal lives in every other way. A person who tries to live like a dog, however, is unable to function properly in a human society. So your analogy is a logic fail.

Yep and this Gender Dysphoria is nothing but messed up wires, just like schizophrenia

There is no drug that will solve gender dysphoria. You can't talk it away with therapy. You can't medicate it away. You can't pray it away. All those things have been tried and failed. This is different than something like schizophrenia.

There are a lot of mental illness that cannot be cured. What is the point you are trying to make?

We went through this exact same line of thought with homosexuals.

Everyone's brain tells them who they are. Some brains tell them their sexual orientation is to same sex.

They still get up, put their pants on one leg at a time, go to work, raise a family, etc etc etc.

Same thing with transgender. They're perfectly normal, except their brain gender doesn't match their physical sex.

Illness would indicate they can't live a normal life, going to work, raising a family, etc.

There is no illness.

Definatly not true. Your assertion that someone with a mental illness would not be capable of doing those things and therefore somehow supportive of your argument is patently wrong.

Take psychopaths for instance. Right away most think of a murderous loon while by and large this is not the case. There are loads of people out there that are diagnosed with it. They are born with it. Yet most of them lead very normal lives and are married with children, have a job, the works. That still does not take away that they have that mental illness, one that cannot be cured.

Your arm is getting longer from reaching.

Gender is in the brain. Even the heterosexual brain. Are they mentally ill too?

Why such a insulting tone in response to what i said?

It was simply fact that what i stated. There are loads of people in the world with illnesses mental or otherwise that live very regular and complete lives. Something that you wrongfully denied by saying what you said to support the argument you were bringing up.

If anything it is you who is reaching.

Gender is in the genes. Genes have a place in wiring the brain, among other factors.

Gender is sex. Believing otherwise is willful ignorance.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Gender is in the genes. Genes have a place in wiring the brain, among other factors.

Gender is sex. Believing otherwise is willful ignorance.

OK, where is your link to study that proves your assertion. Current report only.

I know there have been plenty of studies posted about Gender in the brain.

BTW - - I am aware that its more complicated then "just the brain".

a reply to: Annee

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Biological differences between men and women contribute to many sex-specific illnesses and disorders. Historically, it was argued that such differences were largely, if not exclusively, due to gonadal hormone secretions. However, emerging research has shown that some differences are mediated by mechanisms other than the action of these hormone secretions and in particular by products of genes located on the X and Y chromosomes, which we refer to as direct genetic effects. This paper reviews the evidence for direct genetic effects in behavioral and brain sex differences. We highlight the `four core genotypes' model and sex differences in the midbrain dopaminergic system, specifically focusing on the role of Sry. We also discuss novel research being done on unique populations including people attracted to the same sex and people with a cross-gender identity. As science continues to advance our understanding of biological sex differences, a new field is emerging that is aimed at better addressing the needs of both sexes: gender-based biology and medicine. Ultimately, the study of the biological basis for sex differences will improve healthcare for both men and women.

a reply to: Annee

My link is basic biology and brain development in utero. Google it.

Now your turn. Where is your valid study that definitively states the brains of people who claim to be transgender are 100% opposite sex brain wiring.

I want to see reproducible results by multiple researchers. More importantly I want to see controls. I want to see studies performed on those people to claim to be transgenders where they were not taking any medications, where they were not under treatment by any physician, psychologist or psychiatrist.

Every study I have seen (neurological, endocrine, psychiatric, psychological, etc) that claims to be even halfway credible did all their research on small groups of people who were undergoing transition surgery or had completed it, or were taking anti-depression medication, or other psychopathic medication. I have not seen statistical analysis that showed they had a sufficient sample size. I have not seen any research on naive trans* pre-treatment. I have not seen comparisons on normal people who were taking similar medication. I have not seen other researchers analyze separate groups of people under the same condition.

Basically, I have seen very impressive sounding experiments that make claims but are either not very robust or have not been replicated independently.

I read scientific research papers as part of my job. It is my responsibility to make sure a proposed study on animals will be rugged and robust enough to make the sacrifice of animals worth the potential data gained. Otherwise my facility could be shut down by animal welfare regulators. While I find the science in the experiments to be interesting, I haven't seen anything that generates more than selective data.

a reply to: everyone

I'll read yours, if you read mine.

Networks of the brain reflect the individual gender identity
January 7, 2015 Source: Medical University of Vienna Summary: Our sense of belonging to the male or female gender is an inherent component of the human identity perception. As a general rule, gender identity and physical sex coincide. If this is not the case, one refers to trans-identity or transsexuality. In a current study, brain researchers were able to demonstrate that the very personal gender identity of every human being is reflected and verifiable in the cross-links between brain regions. www.sciencedaily.com...

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

I read scientific research papers as part of my job. It is my responsibility to make sure a proposed study on animals will be rugged and robust enough to make the sacrifice of animals worth the potential data gained. Otherwise my facility could be shut down by animal welfare regulators.

I've read enough in the last 20 years I should have a degree.

Brain scan science is kinda "newish".

But, it has changed perceptions and given more credit to the brain in determining who we are.

I became interested in brain scan science many years ago - - - before these transgender discussions.

I believe unisex bathrooms incoming...
I know its all cool and hip
"we knew so and so cis gendered who used x bathroom and it was k"
or "In my university we had coed/unisex bathrooms and nothing happened"

In nearly all situations unisex bathrooms would be ok. But let's say 1% of the population is a sicko, so 99 out of 100 times everything will be normal.
It is only in these rare situations, but they add up.
That is the issue here as what we are doing is saying anyone can use any bathroom they "feel"

Most people here on ATS are good people and are around good people. This is why anecdotal stories are pointless, I don't expect anyone on here to know or be any sicko.

Also there may be biological issues here, with how

originally posted by: jellyrev

In nearly all situations unisex bathrooms would be ok. But let's say 1% of the population is a sicko, so 99 out of 100 times everything will be normal.

We should deny universities Engineer Professors because of the off chance a sicko 1 percenter will break in an kill one.

Of course it happens.

originally posted by: Annee
Brain scan science is kinda "newish".

Basic scientific method is not.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
I disagree with the lady though, her parenting woes are not societies problems.

An individual's self loathing and hatred of the penis and chromosome pairing they were born with shouldn't be society's problem, either.

a reply to: chrismarco

I find this behaviour really paranoid. I don't know what the problem in the US is that has caused this behaviour but I've never heard of anything like it where I live.

Is that how bad things are in the US? Can't let your kids go to the bathroom without worrying about some sicko.. Is it that dangerous to be out and about in the US? When did this happen.. is this a recent development? Sounds pretty crazy to me. Coddling kids like this. At the end of the day you can't be with them all of the time.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Annee
Brain scan science is kinda "newish".

Basic scientific method is not.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod

Is that how bad things are in the US? Can't let your kids go to the bathroom without worrying about some sicko.. Is it that dangerous to be out and about in the US? When did this happen.. is this a recent development? Sounds pretty crazy to me. Coddling kids like this. At the end of the day you can't be with them all of the time.

Sicko?

Maybe the mom, not being able to explain differences to her daughter.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Annee
Brain scan science is kinda "newish".

Basic scientific method is not.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."

Using a sci-fi movie quote in your argument?

Also, I forgot to comment about the 'newish' brain scan science. Yes, it is new. People know they are looking at brain activity. They do not know what that activity represents.

Also... 500 years ago the 'everyone' that quote is referring to actually knew the earth was round. The question was how big it was.