Thomas the Contender

A few quotes from the apocryphal Book of Thomas the Contender:


The secret words that the Savior spoke to Judas Thomas, known as the twin. It is my opinion that we should all be Christ's twin, or try.


"Now, since it has been said that you are my twin and true companion, examine yourself, and learn who you are in what way you exist, and how you will come to be. Since you will be called my brother, it is not fitting that you be ignorant of yourself.....For he who has not known himself has known nothing, but he who has known himself has at the same time already achieved knowledge about the depth of the all. So then, you, my brother Thomas, have beheld what is obscure to men, that is, what they ignorantly stumble against."


"...If the deeds of the truth that are visible in the world are hard for you to perform, how indeed, then, shall you perform those that pertain to the exalted height and to the pleroma which are not visible?"

"It is in light that light exists."

"...it is impossible for an intelligent man to dwell with a fool."


"Blessed is the wise man who sought after the truth, found it, rested upon it forever and was unafraid of those who wanted to disturb him."

Book of Thomas the Contender

a reply to: Szarah

Not usually my thing. However his cool name caught my eye and prompted a search to see how he acquired it. On route to not finding out how he earned such an intriguing title, the following also caught my attention:

Woe to you, captives, for you are bound in caverns! You laugh! In mad laughter you rejoice! You neither realize your perdition, nor do you reflect on your circumstances, nor have you understood that you dwell in darkness and death! On the contrary, you are drunk with the fire and full of bitterness. Your mind is deranged on account of the burning that is in you, and sweet to you are the poison and the blows of your enemies! And the darkness rose for you like the light, for you surrendered your freedom for servitude! You darkened your hearts and surrendered your thoughts to folly, and you filled your thoughts with the smoke of the fire that is in you!

Gnostic Literary Library

There's an interesting rhythm to the extract that's quite appealing. Something about the beat of the syllables reminds me of a poet called Gerard Manley Hopkins. The imagery is also evocative and seems to play on the themes from Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

Cheers for posting

a reply to: Kandinsky

Thanks, I thought the same thing it is well written. The Gospel of Thomas is over 100 sayings of Jesus scholars are now dating late first century. A few Gospel quotes are in it.

I have never read Plato or that poem though I have been meaning to delve into Plato, Pythagoras and Plutarch. And Homer.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: GemmyMcGemJew
How have the mods allowed this to persist. A joke.

Allowed what to persist...

This is a good book, and its rare to see a thread on it...

Is it because its not quite Christian?

Thanks, I wondered the same thing. But it is Jesus, who gets mad at Jesus?

And they are wise quotes, things I can see him saying.

a reply to: Szarah

Allegory of the Cave wiki

Funny how some suggest it has a rhythm, cadence, considering its translated from whatever to english, thats amazing.
Amazing in that I cant hear a rhythm in the text, maybe I am tone deaf

Anyway, always figure when I read this "The secret words", it reminds me of politicians and lawyers.
Does the Gospel of Thomas come with a bottle of snake oil.

a reply to: Kandinsky

From that wikipedia article I definitely see the similarities between the philosopher and the words in The Contender. Actually a good article, I'll find the book. Thanks.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Does the Gospel of Thomas come with a bottle of snake oil.

no...

only Christians can drink poison and survive

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Funny how some suggest it has a rhythm, cadence, considering its translated from whatever to english, thats amazing.
Amazing in that I cant hear a rhythm in the text, maybe I am tone deaf

Anyway, always figure when I read this "The secret words", it reminds me of politicians and lawyers.
Does the Gospel of Thomas come with a bottle of snake oil.

You don't like Christ? Why wouldn't there be secret books? The church always had Apocrypha just for the priesthood. Apocrypha just means hidden away.

I gave you a star by accident just so you know. You probably need it anyway.

a reply to: Szarah

A lot of good ideas were sloshing around the Mediterranean basin in the centuries preceding Christ.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Funny how some suggest it has a rhythm, cadence, considering its translated from whatever to english, thats amazing.

Translated and contains rhythm. How inevitable.

Amazing in that I cant hear a rhythm in the text, maybe I am tone deaf

You are tone deaf...never seen a person so deaf to reason.

originally posted by: Szarah
... from the apocryphal Book of Thomas the Contender:

"... it is impossible for an intelligent man to dwell with a fool."

Is it?

I would have thought that an intelligent man can also BE a fool. Definitely many comedians are intelligent, keen observers of the human condition, yet are fools for our entertainment and enjoy foolishness, too.

a reply to: chr0naut

No, a fool is not intelligent by nature and definition.


And comedians act foolISH for money. They can be intelligent off stage and sometimes don't act foolISH on or off stage. You can be wise AND funny.

Jesus is saying a wise man doesn't keep company with fools as in idiots or morons. It's good advice and true. A total fool is the polar opposite of intelligent.

originally posted by: Szarah

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Funny how some suggest it has a rhythm, cadence, considering its translated from whatever to english, thats amazing.
Amazing in that I cant hear a rhythm in the text, maybe I am tone deaf

Anyway, always figure when I read this "The secret words", it reminds me of politicians and lawyers.
Does the Gospel of Thomas come with a bottle of snake oil.

You don't like Christ? Why wouldn't there be secret books? The church always had Apocrypha just for the priesthood. Apocrypha just means hidden away.

I gave you a star by accident just so you know. You probably need it anyway.

Funny gnosisfaith how I don't have to reinvent myself on a daily to weekly basis.
Some people just don't believe what you believe, just sad you can't accept others who don't agree with your gnosis faith.
I wonder what you are like out in the real world

I don't like Christ, is that a statement or question? I do like Christ, the issue is does He like me.

I gave you a star too because it will probably make you feel better, not like you got ripped off, not like you sold your soul out

originally posted by: Szarah
a reply to: chr0naut

No, a fool is not intelligent by nature and definition.


And comedians act foolISH for money. They can be intelligent off stage and sometimes don't act foolISH on or off stage. You can be wise AND funny.

Jesus is saying a wise man doesn't keep company with fools as in idiots or morons. It's good advice and true. A total fool is the polar opposite of intelligent.

I would hope that I am intelligent, but I've done some really foolish things in my life. So, I am living proof that a fool can be intelligent, too.

What about a live-in nurse, doctor or teacher taking care of the intellectually handicapped? Should they abandon their duty due to this saying?

As a bit of "wisdom" it falls short of the mark.

a reply to: chr0naut

Doing the occasional foolish thing doesn't make you a fool. It makes you human.

You're only a fool if you don't learn from the occasional foolish mistake.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Szarah
a reply to: chr0naut

No, a fool is not intelligent by nature and definition.


And comedians act foolISH for money. They can be intelligent off stage and sometimes don't act foolISH on or off stage. You can be wise AND funny.

Jesus is saying a wise man doesn't keep company with fools as in idiots or morons. It's good advice and true. A total fool is the polar opposite of intelligent.

I would hope that I am intelligent, but I've done some really foolish things in my life. So, I am living proof that a fool can be intelligent, too.

What about a live-in nurse, doctor or teacher taking care of the intellectually handicapped? Should they abandon their duty due to this saying?

As a bit of "wisdom" it falls short of the mark.

Why would an intellectually handicapped person be considered a fool?

They are ill, not fools.

So you fall short of wisdom, not the quote.

I find it disturbing that you classify the mentally handicapped as fools.

I

a reply to: Raggedyman

I don't care what anyone believes. You said snake oil and I asked if your problem was with Christ.

Because if you like Christ there is no reason to not enjoy this scripture.

I have nothing against anyone for believing anything because it doesn't concern me. I have no desire to convert anyone to my non-religion. It goes against my beliefs to judge someone, especially for their religion, faith or spirituality.