Why Mainstream Science is a Religion

originally posted by: cooperton


in elementary school we are bombarded with "facts" that claim the total antithesis to true human history. We've all been duped by an ignorant system led by the secularist dogma which surely wants you to think any Higher Power is non-existent. Some study of the Bible would tell you who is ultimately behind this mass deception...

I dated a girl for a few months who was an evangelical, science is hoax, follower. Really fascinating...She had all the literature...the whole if Dinosaurs were real then they would have been mentioned in the Bible etc. etc. She also argued that the scientific community was "evil" and hoaxing people to contradict the bible's telling of history and the timeline of creation..You can google "Dinosaur hoax" and discover an entire system of BS and believers built around it.

All I can say is ..I hope you find your way in life...same thing I told her..

a reply to: BO XIAN

"Science has come to realize that the principle of non-contradiction which is at the heart of its development is more a requirement of its methods than a characteristic of reality. Science often, particularly when it reaches extremes - the infinitely large or the infinitely small - finds itself up against something irrational which calls its methods and experiments into question and renders their conclusions somewhat doubtful. Its logic is applicable only in the short term and under certain conditions.

Science and technology, engendered by the human mind, advance inexorably. They are always pushing back the limits of their domain without ever tackling a complete explanation, which would be beyond the ability and even the ambition of scientists. They challenge every approach to the natural world which is unfamiliar to them; Science seems to be a terrible god who drives away his rivals and makes draconian demands.

The fact is that science and technology are a long way from testing everything and finding an explanation for it. There is a very great area which remains outwith the sphere of science and technology, and their claim to lay down the law has been greatly challenged. It seems that they have neither the knowledge nor the ability to go beyond the scientific domain, whose limits become more apparent every day."

"Mythology" (Chambers Compact Reference) p 16

originally posted by: rottensociety
The dogged nature of "Science" is evident and there is a real problem with it.

I am an English teacher and last year I was teaching a leading gastroenterologist from the Czech Republic. We talked extensively about the problem of "Science" today. He told me about his annoyance that new theories that had not been proven to be true where being treated as such in official scientific papers. Apparently, this is the way of "Science" that a new theory is treated as "true" and published as completely "true" until something else comes along to disprove it. This happens even though those who are leading in the subject are fully aware that there are massive flaws in the theory.

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

I've seen it a frightful number of times. I got to where I tried to shut it out, it was so discouraging to watch.

a reply to: Indigo5

Virtually every values orientation/system has members that are clueless to varying degrees.

That may or may not correlate with the validity or falseness of said values orientation/system.

a reply to: BO XIAN

I laugh every time I see an angry little thread started by a scared God-botherer.

You can almost smell the fear dripping off such posters.

The Christian God has been discarded by most of humanity and now lies rotting on the rubbish heap of history along with other long forgotten deities.

Christians and their hive-minded compatriots can no longer scare the rational human with threats that their super-powered magic-goblin will send you to shoel. The scare-tactics of damnation no longer hold any weight or value to the rational man; they are as empty sounds dissipated on the wind of scientific knowledge.

Gods are just a crude social-control mechanism that worked well on our less-enlightened forefathers and, unfortunately, still works on the feeble-minded, the lost, the angry and the low IQ elements of humanity.

The desire of this type of poster is to bring science down to the low level where their 'God' now resides.

Religion once held sway over science but now the tables have turned and 'God' is slowly being destroyed by science and rationality. The once mighty and all-powerful God is now a God-of-the-gaps and as the gaps become smaller and smaller the God-botherers become more and more frightened of the challenges to their fragile belief system and thus they seek to bring science down to the same low level as their now enfeebled 'God.'

Has my life in which I grovel on my knees to an invisible sky-man been a waste? Is there no cloud-man receiving my telepathic thoughts? Am I truly alone?

This type of poster is frightened and so he seeks to drag science down to the same level as his magic-cloud-man. He seeks to compare his God and faith to science and rationality.

It is not a fair contest - Science has crushed superstition and super-powered sky-imps.

However we should not s'n-word' or laugh at the angry Christer and his poor attempt to elevate his God to the level of science- We, as the enlightened ones, should act maturely and allow him to spout his deluded drivel and repeat ad-nauseam the words from his magic-book as, unlike the Christians of old who would kill you for not believing in their God, we are the better person.

R.I.P. 'God.'

a reply to: BO XIAN

Science is science...

Done well, it simply is ...Electricity will jolt you...let go of the spoon and gravity will make it move toward the ground...math can tell you how fast and experiments can tell you mostly why and you can make further predictions.

Babies are born scientists...they will throw that spoon or toy from the high chair and watch with wonder as gravity pulls it to the floor...they will repeat the experiment with multiple objects until they are certain they understand the phenomena well enough.

A ten pound rock flung with x amount of force at angle y? factor in gravity, air resistance etc. and science will tell you where that rock will land.

Better yet...Science launched a probe from the ground here on earth while it is moving around the sun at 67,000 MPH, while spinning on its access at a 1000 MPH and placed it on Mars 200 Million Kilometers away...and it put human beings on the moon, built the computer you are typing on etc. etc.

Science by definition is an open question...Scientists are most excited when what they thought would happen doesn't.

If you are talking about what the media does with science...that's a different question..

originally posted by: Indigo5
I dated a girl for a few months who was an evangelical, science is hoax, follower. Really fascinating...She had all the literature...the whole if Dinosaurs were real then they would have been mentioned in the Bible etc. etc. She also argued that the scientific community was "evil" and hoaxing people to contradict the bible's telling of history and the timeline of creation..You can google "Dinosaur hoax" and discover an entire system of BS and believers built around it.

All I can say is ..I hope you find your way in life...same thing I told her..

I appreciate your concern because it seems genuine. Like I said before in this thread, I'm not denying any science or history.

Dinosaurs aren't usually carbon-dated because they're assumed to be hundreds of millions of years old, but when they are, the dates received are between 4,000-40,000 years old: Source. Of course, this is some of the information that scientific priesthood refuse to acknowledge, so I understand why its so slow to dilute into public knowledge.

Dinosaurs are recorded in our history:

Lo, I pray thee, Behemoth, that I made with thee: Grass as an ox he eateth.
Lo, I pray thee, his power [is] in his loins, And his strength in the muscles of his belly.
He doth bend his tail as a cedar, The sinews of his thighs are wrapped together,
His bones [are] tubes of brass, His bones [are] as a bar of iron.
He [is] a beginning of the ways of God, His Maker bringeth nigh his sword;
For food do mountains bear for him, And all the beasts of the field play there.
Under shades he lieth down, In a secret place of reed and mire.
Cover him do shades, [with] their shadow, Cover him do willows of the brook.
Job 40:15-22

Dinosaur wasn't a word until 1850, so prior to this, any large serpentine creature would not have been called a dinosaur. The word they used, which is ubiquitous throughout all the cultures of the earth, is dragon. Dragon is used 25 times in the old testament to refer to large serpentine creatures (See Leviathan). These large serpentine creatures are not limited to the Bible, in the Epic Beowulf, a familiar creature is described:

"Grendel's swift hard claws
snatched at the first Geat
He came to, ripped him apart, cut
His body to bits with powerful jaws,
Drank the blood from his veins and bolted
Him down, hands and feet; death
And Grendel's great teeth came together,
Snapping life shut."

"but their weapons
Could not hurt him,
the sharpest and hardest iron
Could not scratch at Grendel's skin"

“The fiend reached for him with his claw, but he grasped it with set purpose, and threw his weight on Grendel’s arm.”

I'll let you conclude what sort of animal that Grendel was; a bipedal, clawed, hard-skinned, huge-jawed, killing machine. These are some of the many descriptions we have of dinosaurs, and there are also historical depictions of these creatures:

Ancient dinosaur depictions
Ancient Pterosaur Depictions
Ancient Pleiosaur Depictions

The Truth is not measured in mass appeal. We have to find the answers on our own, and the help of other genuine truth-seekers.

a reply to: rottensociety

ABSOLUTELY INDEED. Great quote.

Dr Chuck Missler has some interesting points in these ball parks in these videos that I believe have relevance for this thread:

He was CEO of several defense corps . . . well trained in computerized information handling and analysis; an Annapolis graduate; a true scientist. He's certainly no intellectual slouch.

THE MYTHS OF SCIENCE--CHALLENGING THE MYTHS OF ASTRONOMY--CHUCK MISSLER IN THE ELECTRIC UNIVERSE:
.
www.youtube.com...
.
= = =

HIDDEN TREASURES OF THE BIBLE--incredible mathematical facts that are more than a little mind boggling for the fair-minded.

www.youtube.com...
.

= = =
SPIRITUAL REALMS BEYOND SPACE & TIME:
.
www.youtube.com...
.
= = =

GENESIS SESSON 11 CHAPTER 6 (THE DAYS OF NOAH)
.
www.youtube.com...
.
= = =
RETURN OF THE NEPHILLIM_UFO's_ALIENS & THE BIBLE:
.
www.youtube.com...
.
= = =
CHUCK MISSLER ON BIBLE PROPHECY PART 1
.
www.youtube.com...
.
= = =

UFO's & THE RETURN OF THE NEPHILIM
.
www.youtube.com...
.
= = =
CHUCK MISSLER: HOW WE GOT OUR BIBLE:
.
www.youtube.com...
.
= = =
CHUCK MISSLER: SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF THE MATRIX A VIRTUAL REALITY UNIVERSE:
.
www.youtube.com...
.
= = =
CHUCK MISSLER ON BIBLE PROPHECY:
.
www.youtube.com...
.
= = =
CHUCK MISSLER: ON LUCY, NEPHILIM, 2045, EXTRATERRESTRIAL, IRON MAN, 666, ALIEN, GOSPEL:
.
www.youtube.com...
.
= = =
CHUCK MISSLER: YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE ME IF I TOLD YOU FOLKS:
.
www.youtube.com...
= = =
.
Anyway--that's a sampling of his videos that touch on aspects of the OP.

originally posted by: WhateverYouSay
Much of what is said in the original post is true, but anti science types will seize on it to try and show some sort of equivalence with young earth creationism or something similar when it's just not.

Many in the scientific community have blinders on when it comes to questioning orthodoxy, there's no doubt of that. Does physics or evolution necessitate materialism? No.

But that doesn't mean evolution is false. It doesn't mean global warming is a hoax. It doesn't mean the earth's age can be measured in the 1000s.

Precisely. Perhaps I am guilty of assuming the motivation for the "science as religion" argument was related to one of the above, generally creationism or climate change, because that is where (in my own anecdotal experience) I most often see it applied.


So if the people in this thread are NOT motivated by creationism or climate change, I stand corrected and I apologize for making a false assumption.

Taken on its own merits, the challenges in science are interesting to discuss.

But as you eloquently stated, they do not falsify evolution or AGW.

You really thought that comparing science to religion was going to kill science? Bill Nye and Stephen Hawking would laugh. Your first indication should be that this expose` was posted on a conspiracy forum all but anonymously. Serve with a handful of salt and a gas mask to limit intake of methane fumes.

a reply to: Smellthecoffee

This has nothing to do with Christianity vs. Science.

Gone are the days of good old human logical thinking. Notice that the brilliant human analysis of human nature as shown in fiction by "Sherlock Holmes", "Hercule Poirot" and even "Colombo" have been replaced on television by the likes of "CSI Miami", "CSI New York", etc., etc.

I know that this is a controversial topic due to the different media coverage in Europe and the USA but in the case of Amanda Knox, the DNA involved on the bra-strap and the knife, that was tampered with, became a huge issue over the fact that she falsely accused a man who was later proven innocent and that she behaved frivolously in the police station after a hideous rape and murder against her supposed friend that was committed in the bedroom next to hers.

What is known and clear about human nature was lost against the "science".

"Science" is being used as a tool by those who wish to use it for their own ends and the foolish are conditioned into believing them. That sounds like most religions to me, does it not to you?

What value is there in muddling what science is and what religion is except some ridiculous claim that the two are on the same footing or are equal in some way?

We could just as easily make the same arguments to prove that religion is merely a "social exercise" or a "pastime" or an "obsession" or a "delusion." I mean, while we're making ridiculous comparisons, should we consider some comparisons that are not so ridiculous?

What value is there in muddling the two except a vain attempt to discredit science?

The claims made by science are factual, reproducible, and measurable. If they aren't, we aren't talking about science.

Religion is none of those things. No, in any meaningful sense, science is not religion, anymore than Baseball is Quidditch.

a reply to: BO XIAN

This is evidenced to me every time i encounter an athiest who "understands" quantum physics but cant solve a simple math problem. Eleven year olds who know god cant exist because of their deep knowledge about the beginning of the multiverse. From the discovery channel.

a reply to: Indigo5


Agreed.

But not just what media does with science . . .

what science's leaders do with science in the service of the oligarchy; in the service of their own greed and power mongering; in the service of their own pride; in the service of their own vanity etc. etc. etc.

and, in the service of their own desperate hollow inner black hole desperately seeking significance.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I think you are smarter than that post implied.

You don't give any evidence in that post of understanding the OP--even minimally.

Sigh.

originally posted by: rottensociety
a reply to: Smellthecoffee

What is known and clear about human nature was lost against the "science".

"Science" is being used as a tool by those who wish to use it for their own ends and the foolish are conditioned into believing them. That sounds like most religions to me, does it not to you?

Your analogy is somewhat labored but it seems to me that you are saying rather than focusing on silly things like science and evidence we should focus on 'human nature?'

"You dress differently to me and you have shifty eyes - You must be GUILTY!"

Perhaps the investigators should have prayed to Gawd for divine revelation or placed Knox in a ducking-chair - If she had drowned she would have been innocent; If she survived she would have been guilty and should have been burnt at the stake - It would be the Christian thing to do.

I'm kinda' glad we rely on imperfect science and evidence rather than divine intervention and Sherlock Holmes 'intuition.'

a reply to: Greggers

Perhaps if you reread the OP several times, you'd have a clearer understanding of what was being asserted.

I don't know of anyone who is hostile to the least degree toward

honorable, true, accurate, fittingly applied, truly reported, fitting research designs, etc. etc. etc. and/or their true findings fittingly bounded.

The disdain, etc. is virtually totally about the corruption in scientific circles; the "experiments" funded by corporations that want and get a given "scientific fact" that isn't really a fact, at all.

--The great leaps of illogic from meager and poorly done research toward generalized all inclusive balderdash supposed to decide once and for all--all the super-ordinate and eternal questions & issues of the day . . .

--the out-right lies dressed in peer-reviewed robes of 'super-scientific-righteousness.'

--the flawed "scientific" rationalizations for depopulating the world down to 500 million

etc. etc. etc.

AND PARTICULARLY the RELIGIOUS FERVOR that such hideous things done in the name of science is far too often clothed in and motivated by.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: Indigo5


Agreed.

But not just what media does with science . . .

what science's leaders do with science in the service of the oligarchy; in the service of their own greed and power mongering; in the service of their own pride; in the service of their own vanity etc. etc. etc.

and, in the service of their own desperate hollow inner black hole desperately seeking significance.

You jumped the shark there with the whole "desperate hollow inner black hole desperately seeking significance"...Plenty of scientist also believe in God and many are deeply spiritual. A belief in a higher power and being a good scientist are not mutually exclusive..hell even the Vatican employs Scientists.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I refer you to my previous post above yours.

"Science" is being used as a tool by those who wish to use it for their own ends and the foolish are conditioned into believing them. That sounds like most religions to me, does it not to you?"

Atheists defend their position as rigorous fanatics without a grain of concrete proof. "Science" has not given them that proof, it doesn't know for sure and yet they remain dogmatic. The Age of Science and Reason is as substantial as any myth.

a reply to: Indigo5

Uhhhhhhhhh . . . I'm not saying anything about areas where the OP assertions do NOT FIT.

Sigh.

This is not that difficult, folks.