How Late Can a POTUS Candidate Wait to Turn Down the Job?

Trumps says he's out of money.

He says he can't spend anymore. Okaaayyy....

that brings up a question. If he never really wanted this to begin with - how late can he wait to pull out? After he gets the nomination can he withdraw his bid? Does a nominee have until November's election day? That very morning, he could retract his bid? Is there a deadline past which he can't back out?

What if a President-Elect just doesn't show up even if he gets elected? How does a POTUS turn down the job before he even gets started?

Can the President-Elect still opt out up until the swearing in? What if he just doesn't show for the swearing in?
Is that legal? Is it possible? What would happen then?!!!

I'm just wondering if any of you have ever looked into this (I haven't yet, but shall) - and what you imagine Trump is really capable of...

I mean, what is the worst that would happen to him if he just says "Naaahhhh.....never mind." Can a POTUS leave the country standing at the altar?

Would that be treason? Fraud? Madness? Some kind of sick joke? How could they force him?

What if he just stops running, now or at the finish line?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Anytime. I've never heard of any set time limit for withdrawing.

Do you have a link to this "out of money" story? My google-fu doesn't function well at 0430 on a Sunday morning.

a reply to: seagull

olaru made a thread about it this morning in this same forum....:www.abovetopsecret.com...

His source: www.politicususa.com...

When Donald Trump told Republicans that his campaign had money, it was a lie. In meeting with Senate Republicans, Trump's campaign privately admitted that they have no money and will not be able to run television ads until after the GOP convention in July.

I'm just wondering if that's his plan. If it's been a lark all along - a scheme just to have some fun and a grand adventure that he can write a book about later...when is the latest he can tell us?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Found this when I did a search with the question......
although the first SERP was this thread!! LOL!

The 20th Amendment doesn't mention a president refusing to take office, just if they die or if they fail to qualify (but there are different outcomes depending on which one happens; if they die the VP becomes President, if they don't qualify the VP is only acting). It's also not clear if refusing to take the oath is "not qualified" as president or if they still technically become president (but exercising presidential powers requires taking the oath), and in the latter case the 25th Amendment might apply.

politics.stackexchange.com...

Hmmm....
further reading on the link above shows the following info:

the 20th and 25th amendments apply, and also parts of the Constitutional Articles:

Article II, Section 1, Clause 8 of the Constitution specifies:

Before [the President] enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
If the President-elect doesn't take this oath, he is unable to execute his office. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. However, by my reading, his becoming President is not conditional upon taking the oath - only executing it. So what happens?

Clause 6, while partially overridden by the 25th Amendment, states:

In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the case of removal, death, resignation or inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what officer shall then act as President, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The 20th Amendment adds

If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified;


Finally, the 25th Amendment modifies this by adding:

In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

...

Whenever the Vice President [and others], transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

ugh. So - it would go to the VP by way of Congressional approval.
Maybe this would be some way to get whoever his running mate turns out to be into the Oval?

The cleanest possibility here is that by refusing to take the oath, the President-elect renders himself "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office". The VP will notify Congress, and become Acting President. He will stay Acting President for the entire 4-year term, and then be eligible for a single extra term as President.

Anything beyond that could spark a constitutional crisis. These tend to be resolved by whoever is most dedicated to their interpretation or who can apply the most force. It's possible it would end up before the Supreme Court, but unless someone's proposed solution was wildly outside the implied default of the VP acting as or becoming President, that's unlikely 1.

Notice - "anything beyond" VP becoming Acting POTUS for the term could 'spark a constitutional crisis'....

seems like a legit way to really really shake up Capitol Hill and the White House, eh??

Brilliant.
Scary.
Unnecessary roughness.
Flag on field.

I can't see Trump walking away.

Trump is all about being in charge, the top dog, the Boss.

He likes being the CEO, and being POTUS is the ultimate CEO.

Maybe if he feared for his life or his family, but other than that, nah. If he wins the election, he'll be sworn in.

a reply to: TerminalVelocity

Even if he realizes that he'll have his hands tied entirely by Congress?

When he realizes the Administration Staff will be telling him what to do?
POTUS is surrounded by "advisors" - he or she doesn't have carte blanche to do whatever they like. That's the difference between being the richest reality tv star real estate mogul in the history of the world, and being responsible to 330million people.

Sounded like fun at the time - but once he's read the fine print on "job duties" maybe he'll change his mind. ???
I can see it.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It's the job title and prestige that goes with it.

CEOs of companies just do not get to do whatever they want in a lot of cases either. Many times a company goes by what it's board of stock holders want.

In my opinion, there is no way Trump would turn down the prestige and honor of the highest office in the land.

You present a question I was wondering the answer to myself.

I've had this sinking feeling in my gut since the start of this that Trump may be a "plant" of sorts to hand the election over to the pre-ordained winner.

As the show has played out, it seems less and less likely. But I've kept that in the back of my mind this whole time and that he all of the sudden is having "financial issues" with the campaign sent up serious red flags with me.

I really, really hope I was just being paranoid and this hasn't all been scripted to play out exactly this way from the start. But this definitely got me wondering again.

he's not quitting, he's a liar

I can't believe how many people he has fooled

a reply to: atomish

I really, really hope I was just being paranoid and this hasn't all been scripted to play out exactly this way from the start. But this definitely got me wondering again.

Did you know Trump is a freemason? Probably dosen't mean anything.

a reply to: atomish

It's mighty curious, isn't it?
How can people not imagine that it might really all be scripted performance and story development?

It's an epic con, I'd have to say. Since it's really pushing the envelope (which appears to be his whole schtick) with potentially causing an unprecedented "Constitutional Crisis", and we have jokers like Cruz around Huckabee (Dominionist Religious Right types), Rand Paul and all the other secondary characters ----

remember that old saw:
"The revolution will not be televised"????

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: atomish

I really, really hope I was just being paranoid and this hasn't all been scripted to play out exactly this way from the start. But this definitely got me wondering again.

Did you know Trump is a freemason? Probably dosen't mean anything.

Interesting. I was not aware of that.

Is there solid proof? Or mostly speculation because of hand gestures and such?

I ask because my great uncle on my father's side was (IIRC) a 33rd degree Mason. My dad has certificates, patches, all sorts of stuff that verifies he was indeed this high ranking mason. Didn't seem like it was some kind of big, nefarious secret though. The whole family knew and cared little.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, either way!

a reply to: olaru12

Is that supposed to be a subtle dig at Freemasonry?
Or hint at corruption?

/not sure if sarcasm or serious

a reply to: olaru12

Seriously, why would that make any difference to anyone?

What would it 'mean'?

Where's AugustusMasonicus?? Paging AugustusMasonicus!!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It's an epic con, I'd have to say. Since it's really pushing the envelope (which appears to be his whole schtick) with potentially causing an unprecedented "Constitutional Crisis", and we have jokers like Cruz around Huckabee (Dominionist Religious Right types), Rand Paul and all the other secondary characters ----

And there's this in the mix as well.....

www.renegadetribune.com...

**** get's real....

a reply to: olaru12

It is the most complicated era of our times, I'd say.
It doesn't get any weirder than this in terms of world history and Western Civ.

We'll all be able to say we were here, though - if we have grandchildren to tell about it.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm just wondering if that's his plan. If it's been a lark all along - a scheme just to have some fun and a grand adventure that he can write a book about later...when is the latest he can tell us?

This has been my "hope" for a while: that he is doing this simply for show, either just to see if he *can* do it (and go down in history), or as a joke to show the utter intolerant insanity of a majority of the Republican party (and still go down in history).

As far as how "late" can he wait, well...Why can't he just walk away any time he wants? Is one who wins the election *forced* to take the oath? I would think not, and the oath is what makes it official. Even if one gets the nomination can one still say "I'm out, see ya" and walk away from it. It would appear so.

I can't find any data yet...

ETA: Or take the oath and immediately resign. It does seem that, according to the 20th, the VP would become POTUS should the president elect step down, die, or otherwise be unable or unwilling to take the job (after the election but before being sworn in), or Congress would get involved. It looks like you touched on that already. If the president elect should simply refuse, then wouldn't that be considered unable or unwilling to perform the duties?

25th Amendment:

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

And since this is something that has never happened before....