John; These things are written that you may believe

originally posted by: madmac5150
From a Gnostic viewpoint...

To have faith in God is not to believe in God... it is to know God...

I don't claim to know God; but, I am still learning...

This is factually incorrect.

The Supreme God of "Gnosticism" is completely unknowable.

And the gnosis is based on experience. Spiritual activity. Nobody ever claimed to meet God in the so called Gnostic churches. Maybe a few kooks. Nobody major.

I don't say this to be rude just that many people think that Gnostic is a religion when it was a sarcastic epithet for a myriad of so called heresies that the church sought to destroy.

They had many schools with many names, Sethian, Sophian, Valentinian, just to name a few.

Even the Nazarenes and Ebionites, Jesus' people, were called Gnostics.

Gnosis is just experiencing the divine through many means lost to history. But there is always a way. God is always available.

a reply to: SelectStart

And you might want to stop calling the fire baptism strange.

JTB said " I have baptized with water; but one who is more powerful than I is coming; I am not worthy to untie the thong of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with FIRE."

originally posted by: Parazurvan

originally posted by: madmac5150
From a Gnostic viewpoint...

To have faith in God is not to believe in God... it is to know God...

I don't claim to know God; but, I am still learning...

This is factually incorrect.

The Supreme God of "Gnosticism" is completely unknowable.

And the gnosis is based on experience. Spiritual activity. Nobody ever claimed to meet God in the so call Gnostic churches. Maybe a few kooks. Nobody major.

I don't say this to be rude just that many people think that Gnostic is a religion when it was a sarcastic epithet for a myriad of so called heresies that the church sought to destroy.

They had many schools with many names, Sethian, Sophian, Valenentinian, just to name a few.

Even the Nazarenes, Jesus people, where called Gnostics.

Gnosis is just experiencing the divine through many means lost to history. But there is always a way. God is always available.

Fair enough, I misstated and over simplified.

Simple belief that there is an Almighty God is not truly faith. The true God; The Absolute, is above and beyond human comprehension. The Absolute cannot be defined, as it is beyond definition. Yet, there is a tiny spark of that Divinity imbued in each of us. True faith is deeply internal, deeply personal... and it is a lifelong journey.

How many "Devout Christians" attend services regularly, volunteer their time and put on a show to impress everyone, and yet commit grave sins in the privacy of their homes. They appear to be "good church-going folks"... in reality, they are as monstrous in private as they are devout in public. True faith is a lifestyle. I learn this more and more every day... and it is a daily struggle. I am in no way even close to perfect... (so much for the money spent on Parochial schools...)

"Religion" is NOT faith. Organized religion is man's way of using the Divine as a method of control. I was raised as a Roman Catholic. The Catholic Church, in recorded history, has been every bit as brutal and ruthless as today's Islamic extremists. Look at the Crusades. Look at the Spanish Inquisition. Not very "Christ-like" behavior... yet, the perpetrators of these atrocities all claimed to be pious, and acting on the Word of God.

Having "faith", and having "religion" are two totally different things...

a reply to: madmac5150

That I can agree with 100%.

I would say faith leads to gnosis and wisdom.

You do need faith, but never forsake knowledge of all things for a religion that is based on unquestionable doctrines.

Religion is never evolving and takes all the spirituality out of faith by making it a requirement and answer for everything that doesn't make sense.

This is just advice, I am not claiming to have higher knowledge or anything. Just my thoughts.

originally posted by: Parazurvan
a reply to: SelectStart

I wonder, do you doubt the Power of the Holy Spirit to enlighten? Impart Wisdom?

Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth, Advocate, Comforter

Personally I have experienced this. I can say it is true because I have first hand knowledge that it is.

The Power of Faith moves mountains.

I'll answer that not all knowledge, all enlightenment, all power and all comfort that can be experienced come from God's Spirit. The other Elohim (god's sons / spirits) that have fallen also have knowledge, enlightenment, power and can give a kind of comfort that all can be experienced and is very real. The anti-christ will give a crap ton of these things out to the world when he comes in his own name. I'll show you one thing that is worthy of noting about the real Spirit of God and not a counterfeit, according to the Bible. Again, we can discuss how you interpret the Bible and how you don't believe in all the scripture as found in the Bible today. I do believe it though.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

1 John 2:19-27 NKJV translation.

A good example of this will be seen by all people, when some that "have the Holy Spirit" take the mark of the beast, and some that "have the Holy Spirit" are slaughtered without "any help from God". "Where is your God that can move mountains at now? Where is your God that has wisdom and enlightenment now? How comforting is this God that is allowing thousands upon thousands (maybe millions) of innocent believers to die horrible deaths? If this is God, I want no part of him. I'll take the god that is right here in front of my face that knows all science, that is either from another dimension or from space, that has all power over the whole world and is giving all sorts of knowledge, technology, wisdom and comfort of a peaceful existence of mankind over the invisible God of the Bible that never pokes his head around at all. There is no God of the Bible, it was a story created by men to control other men, and Jesus never said the preposterous words other men made up after he died. He was a part of the theme of all religions over the history of mankind. And mankind has made another evolutionary leap, becoming a part of the true god and his light and consciousness, in which man will move into the new powerful enlightened era and away from false religious zeal of foolish dead men." - The man that accepts the false god in place of the real true God near the end of this age. Which interestingly will absolutely include highly intelligent skeptical scientists of all kinds and scholars of all kinds.

Umm, how about no Beavis. I pray I do not have to die a horrible death for my faith. Oh Lord I wish that none of your children do. However, it is written, and I must hold Jesus' promise true if faced with any of the above and I must rely on faith of things I cannot see now, that when I and my loved ones die, that we will be resurrected in his love and power and his glory.

If you Parazurvan are actually sincere about receiving the Holy Spirit, believe in Jesus of Nazareth of the Bible.

Double post.


Here is a good place that I can add to my other post. I in NO way am saying that the Spirit that you have experienced is NOT God's Spirit.

I do not wish to make the foolish mistake of even remotely coming close to anything resembling blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.

You may have experienced the Holy Spirit in your life, and if you have, then I thank God greatly.

Again. Peace.

a reply to: SelectStart

I think you and I are on a different page. No big deal.

originally posted by: Parazurvan
a reply to: SelectStart

I think you and I are on a different page. No big deal.

Yes probably a different page. Nutshell: not all enlightenment or power comes direct from God, and must be held up to the Bible, as the Bible claims (Christian view). Some will claim certain things about God, but it is not true. You may have experienced the Holy Spirit yes, there's no way of me knowing that or not, as I do not know you. Even if I did know you, I still may not be able to know what you have experienced, only that after a time I might be able to tell whether or not you were living a life empowered by his Spirit living inside you because it is visible in how you live your life and what you proclaim (fruits). Either way it doesn't matter what I think about your life or not, I'm just a peon in the scheme of things myself.

Sorry again, always long winded haha. Sorry about that.

Thanks.

originally posted by: Parazurvan
a reply to: madmac5150

That I can agree with 100%.

I would say faith leads to gnosis and wisdom.

You do need faith, but never forsake knowledge of all things for a religion that is based on unquestionable doctrines.

Religion is never evolving and takes all the spirituality out of faith by making it a requirement and answer for everything that doesn't make sense.

This is just advice, I am not claiming to have higher knowledge or anything. Just my thoughts.

I could write a novel based on what I have experienced in life; as a retired military professional I have seen atrocities beyond comprehension... and absolute miracles as well. The fact that I am alive at all I fully credit to my Guardian Angel; when I pass on from this life, I owe him a few rounds at the Pearly Gates Bar and Grill.

My true "awakening", for lack of a better term occurred when I was diagnosed with M.S.

As a military Officer or Senior NCO, there is a certain "swagger" and self-confidence that comes with the rank, and the responsibilities are huge. The ego that comes with it can be just as huge. I "walked the walk"... and believed in my own "success".

M.S. made me realize just how small that I actually am. The disease ended my career. I was over 20 years of service when diagnosed, so I was forced to retire as I was "non-deployable". In other words, no longer of value.

At the time of my diagnosis, I was devastated. My life literally came crashing down around me.

That was my epiphany. That was when I opened my eyes for the first time. I have had some rough times dealing with it, but I certainly appreciate being alive and "in the moment" far more than ever.

Maybe one day I will relate my full story, for now it is a work in progress.

a reply to: madmac5150

originally posted by: madmac5150
From a Gnostic viewpoint...

To have faith in God is not to believe in God... it is to know God...

I don't claim to know God; but, I am still learning...

Hay Digger, just a heads up your not wrong in your above quote. And apart from Padawan Parazurvan Googlemiser saying your wrong the rest of his post is correct. Going by Gnostic religion that is.

Ohh and thanks for your long service sir, I hope you live a long and fruitful life and hopefully with little pain from your MS.

Coomba98


--
sorry DISRAELI for going off topic I hope you don't mind.

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: madmac5150

originally posted by: madmac5150
From a Gnostic viewpoint...

To have faith in God is not to believe in God... it is to know God...

I don't claim to know God; but, I am still learning...

Hay Digger, just a heads up your not wrong in your above quote. And apart from Padawan Parazurvan Googlemiser saying your wrong the rest of his post is correct. Going by Gnostic religion that is.

Ohh and thanks for your long service sir, I hope you live a long and fruitful life and hopefully with little pain from your MS.

Coomba98


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sorry DISRAELI for going off topic I hope you don't mind.

Yes, what I stated was indeed correct, but my statement was vague and did not truly embody the spirit of what I was trying to impress.

From the Gnostic standpoint (as I understand it... and that is deeply important) to "know" the Divine Creator, we must first know ourselves. The Divine cannot be found in any Church or Synagogue or Mosque... true Divinity is within each and every one of us. Finding that Divinity requires real work... a willingness to transcend EVERYTHING that we have ever been taught, everything that we think we know, and most importantly... it is a hard look inward.

Whether you find your Divine Calling as a Christian, Jew or Muslim should not matter, as long as that discovery is based on kindness and compassion.

And thanks for your well wishes. M.S. sucks, but it isn't the end. My ego driven self owns a very sweet, and very loaded Chevy Impala. On my bad days, I can't drive her. When I have a good day, I drive fast and truly enjoy it. It seems like a small thing... that freedom to enjoy life. But, in essence, THAT IS life.

Smile. Enjoy and find joy within

a reply to: SelectStart

understanding that my submission to him in belief of him, must be a way of life for me.

You have found your way to the central message of the Bible.

I think your instinct is right, that obedience to God follows on from faith, not the other way round. That seems to be the right formula all the way through the New Testament, even in James ("I will show you my faith by my works"). It's what Paul means by "If we live by the Spirit,let us also walk by the Spirit", and its the main theme of 1 John.
(Conversely, if we can see Adam's disobedience as an act of distrust, fundamentally, then the solution found in the New Testament begins to make more sense)

On the question of Revelation; I don't expect there to be any "rapture", in the fashionable sense of the word. Paul says the saints will be "taken up" to Christ when he returns. So yes, "Here is a call for the patience of the saints" sums up the purpose of the whole book.

originally posted by: coomba98
sorry DISRAELI for going off topic I hope you don't mind.

Apology accepted, because we all know where the digression really started.
Your running dialogue with a certain other poster is one of the most entertaining features of ATS.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
Apology accepted, because we all know where the digression really started.
Your running dialogue with a certain other poster is one of the most entertaining features of ATS.

Man, didn't realise I was an entertaining one. Just accepted a challenge back in, I think it was January 2016 to confront young Padawan when his being offensive.
(However as you would know this was a previous incarnation of Padawan who's account was banned many many moons ago.)

However, if such discourse is entertaining then im happy to entertain.

Cheers!!!

a reply to: SelectStart

Well said.

Our experiences are our own, and none of us can know for sure what another has experiences which is why it is never a good idea to tell someone definitively that they are going to hell. None of us knows.

We don't even for sure know about ourselves, not until that day comes.

originally posted by: coomba98

originally posted by: DISRAELI
Apology accepted, because we all know where the digression really started.
Your running dialogue with a certain other poster is one of the most entertaining features of ATS.

I hate to tell you this but I am not your lost love who you call, quite childishly, Padawan.

What that means is that you love this person so much you have convinced yourself that someone is him/her and do not have the slightest clue.

Now that is a helluva ridiculous thing to develop delusions over.

But by all means, continue with your delusion. It is entertaining human behavior and I so enjoy analyzing psychotic behavior.

I have no reason to care because you really aren't talking to me anyway, and all you are is a punk ***** with pom poms.


But at least you know enough to know that I know what I am talking about.

Even though you think that telling someone they are factually incorrect is wrong, even if they are and I am just politely informing them.

Goes to show you how far you will go to involve yourself in your (perceived) object of obssession's conversations as does your kissing of ass of anyone that has a different opinion from mine.

All in all a pretty messed up scenario. But it is funny to witness even if it is pathetic. I guess I am a little immature for finding disturbing and pathetic human behavior funny, but you kind of are asking for it.

edit on 28-5-2016 by Parazurvan because: (no reason given)

a reply to: SelectStart

Just curious, what do you mean when you say submit to God?

Do you mean do His will i.e. the right thing?

Or do you mean believe that the Bible is 100% historically accurate and everything it says is true?

Because I believe in doing his will.

The Bible is the product of the will of man. Man decided what to write and what to include. When to edit it, add to it and make it support the Emperors will.

Yet even Jesus said his parables have double meanings for the wise and a single meaning for everyone else.


So if you trust God to preserve the message it is in the deeper meaning.

If you trust man it is in the literal.


" The road is narrow, and FEW will find it."

The few are those who perceive, the many are those who just see the surface and know not what lies beneath. They see, but do not perceive.

And from a Rabbinical perspective the Torah and Tanakh stories are a cloak.

Underneath the cloak is the Message.

I am happy to call myself one of the few while the many think that they actually are the few even though they clearly follow the majority. The wide road of religious fervor.

Never could get how people who follow the majority could think they are the few when they are clearly conforming to the majority standards and not the actual teachings of Christ.

a reply to: Padawan Parazurvan Googlemiser

originally posted by: Padawan Parazurvan Googlemiser
I hate to tell you this but I am not your lost love who you call, quite childishly, Padawan.

You never know Padawan Googlemiser, you never know.

originally posted by: Padawan Parazurvan Googlemiser
What that means is that you love this person so much you have convinced yourself that someone is him/her and do not have the slightest clue.

I don't really love you hell I don't even know you. I just say that cause I know it will ruffle your feathers, to give love to and angry person.... lol that's what I love.

Also are you saying love is a negative thing and should be steered clear of? Sorry not going to do that.

I LOVE YOU PADAWAN GOOGLEMISER!! I LOVE YOU!

originally posted by: Padawan Parazurvan Googlemiser
But by all means, continue with your delusion. It is entertaining human behavior and I so enjoy analyzing psychotic behavior.

I have no reason to care because you really aren't talking to me anyway, and all you are is a punk ***** with pom poms.

Thank you for your permission Padawan Googlemiser. Thank you.

And what is wrong with pom poms? I do have a skirt that goes with it.

originally posted by: Padawan Parazurvan Googlemiser

But at least you know enough to know that I know what I am talking about.

Even though you think that telling someone they are factually incorrect is wrong, even if they are and I am just politely informing them.

Yes I know enough to know your wrong, and you don't know enough to correctly and politely argue your viewpoint. Ignoring questions posed to your statements is tantamount to conscious ignorance Padawan Googlemiser.

And you are almost never polite in your responses to other people. Padawan Googlemiser.

originally posted by: Padawan Parazurvan Googlemiser
Goes to show you how far you will go to involve yourself in your (perceived) object of obssession's conversations as does your kissing of ass of anyone that has a different opinion from mine.

I am not a sycophant but if you want to call me that to make you feel better then go for it, I wont stop you Padawan Googlemiser. If I was an sycophant then I would be praising a who lot more people than what, three? Padawan Googlemiser.

I will be positive to positive people and give them a pat on the back when I think it needed. This is being human Padawan Googlemiser.

originally posted by: Padawan Parazurvan Googlemiser
All in all a pretty messed up scenario. But it is funny to witness even if it is pathetic. I guess I am a little immature for finding disturbing and pathetic human behavior funny, but you kind of are asking for it.

Im glad I can entertain you as we both entertain the ATS public. Keep up the good work Padawan Googlemiser!
(No im not a$$licking you I really mean it, keep up the good work!)

Coomba98... sorry

Summers Eve.

--

DISRAELI, apologies for butting into your thread again. Here is a clip I found most funny about a certain poster on ATS. I hope this makes it alright.

www.youtube.com...

Coomba98

originally posted by: madmac5150

originally posted by: Parazurvan

originally posted by: madmac5150
From a Gnostic viewpoint...

To have faith in God is not to believe in God... it is to know God...

I don't claim to know God; but, I am still learning...

This is factually incorrect.

The Supreme God of "Gnosticism" is completely unknowable.

And the gnosis is based on experience. Spiritual activity. Nobody ever claimed to meet God in the so call Gnostic churches. Maybe a few kooks. Nobody major.

I don't say this to be rude just that many people think that Gnostic is a religion when it was a sarcastic epithet for a myriad of so called heresies that the church sought to destroy.

They had many schools with many names, Sethian, Sophian, Valenentinian, just to name a few.

Even the Nazarenes, Jesus people, where called Gnostics.

Gnosis is just experiencing the divine through many means lost to history. But there is always a way. God is always available.

Fair enough, I misstated and over simplified.

Simple belief that there is an Almighty God is not truly faith. The true God; The Absolute, is above and beyond human comprehension. The Absolute cannot be defined, as it is beyond definition. Yet, there is a tiny spark of that Divinity imbued in each of us. True faith is deeply internal, deeply personal... and it is a lifelong journey.

How many "Devout Christians" attend services regularly, volunteer their time and put on a show to impress everyone, and yet commit grave sins in the privacy of their homes. They appear to be "good church-going folks"... in reality, they are as monstrous in private as they are devout in public. True faith is a lifestyle. I learn this more and more every day... and it is a daily struggle. I am in no way even close to perfect... (so much for the money spent on Parochial schools...)

"Religion" is NOT faith. Organized religion is man's way of using the Divine as a method of control. I was raised as a Roman Catholic. The Catholic Church, in recorded history, has been every bit as brutal and ruthless as today's Islamic extremists. Look at the Crusades. Look at the Spanish Inquisition. Not very "Christ-like" behavior... yet, the perpetrators of these atrocities all claimed to be pious, and acting on the Word of God.

Having "faith", and having "religion" are two totally different things...

Very true. I agree.