John; These things are written that you may believe

“Believing”, in John’s gospel, is a very active quality.
Most of the New Testament (including, it must be said, the epistle of James), speaks of the importance of faith.
But we don’t find the word “faith”, as a noun, in John’s gospel.
It’s always the verb.
People are constantly believing, or not believing, as the case may be.

The starting-point is the not believing.
Jesus told the official in Capernaum “Unless you see signs and wonders you will not believe” (ch4 v48).
In fact this man was willing to trust in his word.
But this was not true of the Jews as a whole.
“You have seen me, and yet do not believe” (ch6 v36).
“I told you, and you do not believe.
The works I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness to me;
But you do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep” (ch10 vv25-26).
And that is John’s verdict on the bulk of the Jewish people;
“Therefore they could not believe” (ch12 v39).

The first stage in believing is “believing someone”, in the sense of accepting the information which they provide.
In John’s terms, receiving their “witness”.
So believing in Jesus begins with believing the “words” of Jesus, believing what he says about himself.
“The man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him” (ch4 v50).
We may be further convinced by believing other witnesses;
“if you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote of me.
But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?” (ch5 vv46-7).
“Even though you do not believe me, believe the works” (ch10 v38).
But the most important supporting witness will be the Father himself;
Eternal life belongs to anyone who “hears my word and believes him who sent me”.

There is a sad footnote at the end of the second chapter (though nobody seems to take much notice of it).
It shows that the “belief” between men and Jesus was not reciprocal.
“Jesus knew all men and needed no one to bear witness of them”.
And what was the result of this intimate knowledge?
Jesus “did not trust himself to them”. More literally, he “did not believe them” (ch2 vv24-5).

The result of believing the words of Jesus is that people “believe”.
It’s frequently expressed in that way, without specifying the content of the belief.
Thus the grateful father in Capernaum “believed, and all his household” (ch4 v53).
Jesus himself doesn’t always get more specific than that;
“For your sake, I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe” (ch11 v15).
That is the case even in the post-resurrection conversation with Thomas;
“Have you believed because you have seen me?” (ch20 v29).

But the manner of the belief may be specified more closely in two different ways.
There is the believing that [OTI], and there is the believing in [EIS or EN].

Believing THAT means believing something specific about the nature and identity of Jesus.
This follows on from believing what he has said about himself.
His disciples believe that he is “the Holy One of God” (ch6 v69), or the Christ (ch11 v27).
These are convenient terms for the main point which Jesus wants them to understand, namely that there is a close relationship between himself and the Father.
This theme runs through the discourse at the Last Supper;
“Believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me” (ch14 v11)
“You have loved me and have believed that I came from the Father…” (ch16 v27).
This may be abbreviated to “that you may believe that I am he [EGO EIMI]” (ch13 v19)
In addressing the Father, his desire is “that they may believe that that thou hast sent me” (ch17 v21).
In essence, this is about accepting and believing in his mission, and it implies their acceptance of what he brings.

Believing IN Jesus means placing one’s trust in him.
It’s an advance on simply believing Jesus, though it may follow on from believing what he says.
John frequently uses this expression.
His disciples believed in Jesus, the Samaritans believed in Jesus, many people believed in Jesus.
Or “in his name”; in the first chapter, those who received him are defined as those who “believed in his name” (ch1 v12).
Jesus himself urges his hearers to “believe in me”;
“He who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live” (ch11 v25).
He may apply this demand to one of his other self-descriptions;
“So must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life…
He who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God” (ch3 v14, v18).
He speaks of himself again when he says “While you have the light, believe in the light” (ch12 v36).

He also closely associates believing in himself with believing in God.
He tells the Jews, in the discourse on the bread; “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent” (ch6 v29).
His final appeal to them includes the claim “He who believes in me, believes not in me, but in him who sent me” (ch12 v44).

Then his final discourse to the disciples opens with the words;
“Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me” (ch14 v1)
Or the alternative translation, “You believe in God, believe also in me”.
For those who believe in him, “will also do the works that I do, and greater works than these he will do, because I go to the Father” (v12).
The state of believing in Jesus is to continue into the life of the church.

In the climax of the main part of the Gospel, the message will be summarised in his words to Thomas;
“Do not be faithless [APISTOS], but believing…
Have you believed because you have seen me?
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe” (ch20 vv26-28).

This Gospel has been compiled for the benefit of those who “have not seen”;
“These things are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name” (ch20 v31).

a reply to: DISRAELI

Agreed.

a reply to: SelectStart
Ah, good. I take it you believe, as well.

EVERYONE lies!

a reply to: mojoharry
If that is true, then you must be lying.

a reply to: DISRAELI

as always S & F

Another great thread.

a reply to: DeathSlayer
Thank you for the encouragement.

a reply to: DISRAELI Thank you for this, it is reaffirming and a confirmation of his love to know that Jesus wanted the future generations to put their faith and trust in him even though we do not see him... in his blessing of those who believe in him and yet do not see him.

a reply to: peppycat
Indeed, trusting where we don't see, and even trusting where we don't understand, can be a vital part of our faith.

a reply to: Identities
Sorry, I don't do off-topic questions.
I've got a thread in my folder called "Marriage and the God of Life", which I've pencilled in for a date in mid-summer, and that might be relevant. I like to be properly prepared for topics like that.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Yes you are correct.

Amen. Faith in Jesus brings, after water, Baptism with the Holy Spirit who brings the fire of Wisdom illuminating the soul and mind (lamp,eye,light).


If you have Faith you WILL be blessed with Wisdom.

originally posted by: Parazurvan
Amen. Faith in Jesus brings, after water, Baptism with the Holy Spirit who brings the fire of Wisdom illuminating the soul and mind (lamp,eye,light).


If you have Faith you WILL be blessed with Wisdom.

"Bow to admiral Zod" - Zod
"Oh my God" - President of the US bowing to Zod
"NO!...Zod" - Zod

There is NO connection whatsoever to Jesus of Nazareth, the Nazareth you don't even believe in, and some weird enlightenment of (strange) fire you speak of. READ the Bible and understand it's message regarding Jesus. That the Jesus of the New Testament is what is being preached by those that wrote it, as the fulfillment of the OT law and prophets.

Jesus isn't written about being a part of a universalistic movement. He IS written about being THE way truth and life. NO one comes to the Father except through him. He came to show us what pleases the Father, to be a once and for all sacrifice for sin, to rise from death in his own power, and for God the Father to send the Holy Spirit to live inside all those that would submit to YHWH ONLY, through the way of Jesus ONLY, by choice. After this is told to the entire world which they can accept or refuse by choice (which is about now), a false god and false messiah will come to world power not through becoming a mocked spit on blood sacrifice of humility such as the REAL Messiah did, but through intrigue, miracles and FORCED (penalty of death) worship of himself in place of YHWH & Jesus recorded IN THE BIBLE. This is the "belief" that it appears the original poster is referring to.

Please stop mixing this "in place of" point of view of the Bible. Please do not act in agreement with the Jesus of Nazareth. Rather, state what you really believe and how it differs from the "believe" the OP and the Bible clearly are speaking of. This goes to all of any poster or speaker or person or blogger or anyone or anything out there that argues Jesus is a wise sage or yogi or a part of some karmic cosmic system on some higher vibration. This is NOT what the Bible says at all.

It is your right to see the Bible differently than others, and I do not think just because someone sees the Bible as incorrect, do I think they are stupid and that I am such a super duper scholar. I'm not even a scholar at all, most Christians aren't scholars. I'm just a dude abiding, like a lot of other dudes and dudettes. No one gonna bop you on the head with a Bible through the internet. If anyone thinks the Bible that remained until 2016 here in print still today from ages past has been skewed and isn't reliable, fine. It's all good, we can agree to disagree and no one is worse for the wear.

Thomas just REALLY realizing who Jesus is said: "My Lord and my God!"....In...the....Bible...

Thanks and peace to you as always recently on ATS. I sincerely mean it Parazurvan and to any other people I might offend, or come off as arrogant, or as stupid. In fact, the Bible also even says that the Gospel is stupid to the rest of the world. And that Christians that believe in the Bible are the stupidest most pathetic of all people, if the Gospel of the Bible is not true. But to the believer it also says, the "foolish" good news of Jesus Christ (of Nazareth) is the power of God for the salvation of those that believe the message.

SelectStart

originally posted by: SelectStart

originally posted by: Parazurvan
Amen. Faith in Jesus brings, after water, Baptism with the Holy Spirit who brings the fire of Wisdom illuminating the soul and mind (lamp,eye,light).


If you have Faith you WILL be blessed with Wisdom.

"Bow to admiral Zod" - Zod
"Oh my God" - President of the US bowing to Zod
"NO!...Zod" - Zod

There is NO connection whatsoever to Jesus of Nazareth, the Nazareth you don't even believe in, and some weird enlightenment of (strange) fire you speak of. READ the Bible and understand it's message regarding Jesus. That the Jesus of the New Testament is what is being preached by those that wrote it, as the fulfillment of the OT law and prophets.

Jesus isn't written about being a part of a universalistic movement. He IS written about being THE way truth and life. NO one comes to the Father except through him. He came to show us what pleases the Father, to be a once and for all sacrifice for sin, to rise from death in his own power, and for God the Father to send the Holy Spirit to live inside all those that would submit to YHWH ONLY, through the way of Jesus ONLY, by choice. After this is told to the entire world which they can accept or refuse by choice (which is about now), a false god and false messiah will come to world power not through becoming a mocked spit on blood sacrifice of humility such as the REAL Messiah did, but through intrigue, miracles and FORCED (penalty of death) worship of himself in place of YHWH & Jesus recorded IN THE BIBLE. This is the "belief" that it appears the original poster is referring to.

Please stop mixing this "in place of" point of view of the Bible. Please do not act in agreement with the Jesus of Nazareth. Rather, state what you really believe and how it differs from the "believe" the OP and the Bible clearly are speaking of. This goes to all of any poster or speaker or person or blogger or anyone or anything out there that argues Jesus is a wise sage or yogi or a part of some karmic cosmic system on some higher vibration. This is NOT what the Bible says at all.

It is your right to see the Bible differently than others, and I do not think just because someone sees the Bible as incorrect, do I think they are stupid and that I am such a super duper scholar. I'm not even a scholar at all, most Christians aren't scholars. I'm just a dude abiding, like a lot of other dudes and dudettes. No one gonna bop you on the head with a Bible through the internet. If anyone thinks the Bible that remained until 2016 here in print still today from ages past has been skewed and isn't reliable, fine. It's all good, we can agree to disagree and no one is worse for the wear.

Thomas just REALLY realizing who Jesus is said: "My Lord and my God!"....In...the....Bible...

Thanks and peace to you as always recently on ATS. I sincerely mean it Parazurvan and to any other people I might offend, or come off as arrogant, or as stupid. In fact, the Bible also even says that the Gospel is stupid to the rest of the world. And that Christians that believe in the Bible are the stupidest most pathetic of all people, if the Gospel of the Bible is not true. But to the believer it also says, the "foolish" good news of Jesus Christ (of Nazareth) is the power of God for the salvation of those that believe the message.

SelectStart

I'm sorry you have a problem with my comment but I am not sorry for saying it.

It was just an inspirational call to get Baptized and receive the Holy Spirit.

No need to get a whiny about it.


That is what I believe.

a reply to: Parazurvan

Thank you. And with your very last statement you made, I agree. It's good to be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit.

Cheers.

Edit: I see you changed your post to include the typical Parazurvan bite! Lol.

It's all good man or woman. Love to you.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: SelectStart
Ah, good. I take it you believe, as well.

I do. =)

I really enjoyed your post. The idea of belief is a VERY interesting one. I find it interesting because of sometimes how much I struggle with the thought that the belief in Jesus is more than just a proposition in my mind. I am closer I think this year than I have been in the past of understanding that my submission to him in belief of him, must be a way of life for me. Not in so much as a rule of this or that is sin, or keeping score of how much better or worse I am day to day, but rather I need to constantly go to him for my entire life. That I grieve his spirit when I don't live in faith. Also the importance of knowing I NEED to remain strong in believing in him in order to remain in him. It's not a thought stream of just words, but an actual relationship that's visible in how I live my life by being in prayer with him all the time.

I know that this is maybe just the Gerber baby food so to speak of God in my own life, but I need him so bad, and I don't care that I do. He is so wonderful and his promise so great that it's not proper to only think of him, but better to live with him. Also for where the world is headed soon, if there is not a pre-tribulation rapture, OR if there is and I am "left behind", EITHER way, the Christians alive in the world that are subject to the anti-christ need to have a living faith, a strong friendship trust, and a total reliance in the face of massive calamities, possible torture, and all the way up to death...or else we may fail the test. It is what is written in Revelation in at least TWO separate places I can recall regarding the patience of the Saints and how the Saints will be basically over ran in this current world by the anti-christ.

If myself and other self professed Christians don't have submission to God and an utter total reliance on Jesus' promises, we will be lost and accept the mark of the beast. The delusion will be strong. The power will be strong. The fear will be strong. We need to be able to close our eyes and just say "Yes Lord" to the real God, believing his promise.

a reply to: SelectStart

I wonder, do you doubt the Power of the Holy Spirit to enlighten? Impart Wisdom?

Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth, Advocate, Comforter

Personally I have experienced this. I can say it is true because I have first hand knowledge that it is.

The Power of Faith moves mountains.

a reply to: SelectStart

It's a habit. Daily prayer is a good thing. At least it has been for me. I always "check in" for a good amount of time before I sleep every night. I have since I was very, very young. Now, it's such a habit that I feel wrong if I miss a night for some reason or fall asleep before saying "amen." Then I have to pray in the morning to apologize for it because I feel bad.

In a sense it's like being unable to sleep without washing my hair.

From a Gnostic viewpoint...

To have faith in God is not to believe in God... it is to know God...

I don't claim to know God; but, I am still learning...