Final Coroner's report on the suicide of John Lang released

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: jadedANDcynical

There is much about this case which seems utterly baffling.

But one thing appears clear as day to me. It is impossible that the victim could have set the fire after receiving the stab wound which pierced his heart. That is a killing blow, and nearly the instant the wound was recieved, blood would have started rapidly filling the space around the heart, not only resulting in the failure of blood to reach the brain, but also compressing the dying beats of his heart. He would, upon the instant of receiving that wound, have been incapacitated.

Therefore, either the wound was received prior to the fire being set, and the fire was set by someone else, or the fire was set and the victim then managed to some how end himself before the fire took hold, using the least likely, and most potentially painful method imaginable. Frankly speaking, I find the idea of this death being anything other than a murder entirely outrageous. If the fire was set, and then the wound delivered, there would be traces of smoke in the victims lungs and airways. I would be interested to hear a full explanation of the entire findings of the autopsy.

He could have set the fire then stabbed himself before the fire really got going. As you just said. A stab to the heart is a nearly Instant death...Well, not really. It's depending how big a hole was in the heart.

A Guy near me was stabbed in the heart, He stood for quite some time, 20 seconds or more with blood running from his chest like a tap before collapsing.

Was the Fire set in the same room.? Were all doors open or closed?..Lots of variables need to be looked at here.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

I do think he was murdered but it is not proven unless we could see the angle of the knife wounds and proof.

The descriptions of the wounds are in the autopsy (not done by a docotor, btw, it's a sheriff) but it's not selectable to quote. Its onlya few pages so it's not too large a file to download.

Go look at his youtube channel and look at the videos he's posted about the menacing harassment he received from the Fresno PD. Read the original thread (I know It's tedious, but you really need the background to understand how serious this case is) and you'll see that yes, he sounded paranoid but he had good reason to be.

He exposed police corruption and was killed by the police for it.

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: Shamrock6

This case is certainly an odd one. I just don't think the blaze and stabbing is the smoking gun some of you seem to think it is.

I'll give you the fire, but stabbing himself through the sternum...twice?

How many other cases of suicide have there been where the victim stabbed themselves through the sternum?

Through the sternum but not piercing the heart. I hate to say it but it doesn't appear as cut and dry as I was expecting it to be. Although the comments from the coroner who was leaving the job, while the new Sheriff's coroner was put into place are telling, I think the most telling. 'They don't even realize there's a conflict of interest.'

And that's the part that is going to remain most interesting to me. I'd have to look into it more. But I've been looking at another case recently and Im not sure I have the time. It would be good to crowdsource documents through FOIA and find out just what information the FCSO has on Lang.

I still can't get over the Sheriff's Office taking over coroner duties. Hell, it's delicate enough when a coroner's office is funded/administered by the county, the same county that handles the Sheriff's Office. But, in many counties there can be a rivalry or disconnect between both offices. They might be under the county, but the medical nature of the coroner keeps an honest line between them. Still, conflict can happen depending on how much the county micro manages its funded offices.

It's really unheard of for the coroner to be part of the SO.

That being said Im going to remain skeptical of the official reports here. But I was really hoping for something a little more cut and dry. To play devils advocate against myself though, what do you really expect from a corrupt SO? A perfect report showing wrongdoing? Doubtful.

This would have been much greater help to me and others, people who look into various cases around the country as a hobby. A current one I have interest in appears to have a corrupt SO and an honest Coroner, kinda of the opposite. I was expecting this case to turn up a similar result as the other one, to show the correlations between the two. And in a sense, I guess it did, as in the other case they ignored the normal coroner and sought out a retired one, and in this one, it appears the honest coroner was ejected and a pasty was put in place, directly into the FCSO. Unreal.

Even if there's no wrongdoing people in this area should be really upset about the decisions made here regarding the coroner's office.

originally posted by: MysticPearl

No one would try to commit suicide by burning their house down in the first place.

This part of the claim is simply not true. Josh Powell, for example, did precisely that when he killed himself and his two sons. As far as stabbing himself, have you ever heard of Hari Kari? Don't be so sure you can eliminate something because you don't think it could happen.

a reply to: schuyler

I agree that the burning yourself in your own home part isn't too outide the realm of contemplation to not be credible.

But the difference between what happened to Mr. Lang and Hari Kari is substantial. He wasn't a samurai nor did he have a tanto.

He was stabbed three times with two different kitchen knives, twice puncturing his sternum. Think about driving a knife through solid bone.

Granted, the sternum is relatively thin, but it will still require a significant amount of force to do so and one of those times would have had to have happend after having done so once already.

Either that or he stabbed himself with two separate knives simultaneously.

Why didn't he just shoot himself 7 times with a nailgun ? This stinks really bad of a cover up and it really wouldn't even surprise me to find out he was indeed murdered.

Wow! Admittedly, I am on the fence here. It makes sense that he would not purchase any weapons for defense, since any receipt of that purchase would be used as proof that he committed suicide or had an accident.

I imagine in his state of mind, the only thing he could do is alert the media as such.

On the other spectrum, one could say, he was an extreme activist and did indeed set a fire, stabbed himself and then realized he needed another knife to incapacitate himself...so with two knives in hand, he thrusted them into his chest. .??? In hopes that investigations will prove he was correct about his claims.

The coroner's office report does lend itself to high suspicion. Did Lang have any family? Can they not request another autopsy?


Another question...was his flesh burned in the fire? Throwing this out since if one is attacked and stabbed, they often will show defensive wounds...especially if it took two more stab wounds to incapacitate him.

a reply to: CynConcepts

The coroner's office report does lend itself to high suspicion. Did Lang have any family? Can they not request another autopsy?

He has an ex wife (estranged, but not hostile iirc) and a early to mid teen aged daughter; I think he even may have had custody of his daughter. I don't know about parents or siblings.

I interacted with some of the locals who knew him on the Fresno People's Media Facebook page and they all said he was a nice, hard working (he had his own small machine (lawnmowers, boats, etc) shop) guy who was also very adamant about bringing to the fore any sort of corruption within the Fresno PD (He outed a ticket writing scam that targeted poor and minorities among other things) and city government.

He is someone who would have been welcomed here on these boards and fit right in in my estimation.



Body not burned, the fire was put out before it got too bad. His exposed areas were covered with soot as were his mouth, and upper trachea.

Tox screen was clean of all tested substances, and they did a standard panel.



I was wrong about the person who signed off on the autopsy, he is an M.D. but he is employed by the Sheriff's office directly.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

I gotta disagree on that one. If you're going to suicide somebody, you suicide them.

If you're going to murder somebody, you murder them.

I think taking the stance that "they wanted it to look like a suicide, but a suicide that didn't really look like a suicide" is a bridge too far. What's the message? We'll do a crappy job of offing you and call all kinds of attention to the case because it's sloppy work and hopefully still get away with it as long as nobody digs too hard?

Possible I suppose. Just doesn't make much sense to me, given the other two options being substantially easier to get away with.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I'm gonna agree with you on that.

So what if they planned on murdering him, knowing they'd be the ones investigating it anyway, and then found out about his Facebook post and decided to lean on the coroner to get him to rule it as a suicide.

This is just a possibility as well, anyway good points were made in your post.

a reply to: sine.nomine

Impossible to kill yourself with a knife? The Japanese used to commit hari kari all the time, that's when they would kill themselves with their own sword.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Songwriter Elliott Smith allegedly stabbed himself, in the heart but many were (and remain) suspicious about the case.

originally posted by: SpecialSauce
a reply to: sine.nomine

Impossible to kill yourself with a knife? The Japanese used to commit hari kari all the time, that's when they would kill themselves with their own sword.

No, I said it was nearly impossible to stab yourself in the heart twice with two different knives no less. The rapid rate if blood loss would make you lose strength and/or consciousness so fast that it's hard to fathom the likelihood of being able to pierce your own sternum a second time, not to mention he had a third stab wound. Way to cherry pick what I said and still manage to get the part you picked wrong.

Maybe you should go back and read my entire post carefully. Once you do that, try to apply logic. I know I'm asking for a lot here, but just try.

This isn't feudal Japan, and this man wasn't falling on his sword due to some disgrace he'd committed. He was scared for his life of the police and has documentation of them harassing him. Then shortly after he said they'd kill him, he turns up stabbed multiple times in his burning house. The sheriff then oversteps his authority to meddle in the autopsy (which the coroner states is a possible conflict of interest) and gives the public one of the most difficult-to-believe suicide stories of all time. That sounds legit to you?

Did I mention I have a couple bridges for sale?

a reply to: sine.nomine

So you're also a pretend doctor?
www.nydailynews.com...
Artie Lange tried to commit suicide and is still alive and stabbed himself nine times.

The # thing is that EVERYONE knows he was murdered but there's nothing anybody can or will do about it. It'll just fall thru the cracks as just another conspiracy theory.

or

he did it that way to frame da police

dun dun dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Not that surprising really. I guess most of you never been to Fresno. I've lived there.

originally posted by: syrinx high priest
or

he did it that way to frame da police

dun dun dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Riiiiiiight.

originally posted by: planetyeck
The # thing is that EVERYONE knows he was murdered but there's nothing anybody can or will do about it. It'll just fall thru the cracks as just another conspiracy theory.

Well if it could've been useful to divide classes and/or race it'd be on 24/7 until provocateurs, err, I mean citizens riot against injustice.

If you step away from the tragedy itself, it's comical. Of course, one would need a lack of conscious.

originally posted by: SpecialSauce
a reply to: sine.nomine

So you're also a pretend doctor?
www.nydailynews.com...
Artie Lange tried to commit suicide and is still alive and stabbed himself nine times.

Artie Lange stabbed himself in the abdomen, for starters, not through his sternum to the heart. Also, I didn't see the part of the article that mentioned Artie Lange using 9 different knives. And once again we go cherry picking the argument. Is it possible to stab yourself multiple times? Yes, of course it is. However, in light of all of the other evidence you have chosen to ignore, the real question is whether or not it's likely this man committed suicide. And anyone who has a brain would conclude that it is more likely a homicide than a murder. What do you have to say about the sheriff taking over investigating the body? Why would he also set his house on fire? Why use more than one knife?