The end of the Conservative movement?

No. Not the end of conservatism, itself. The end of the political movement that supposedly 'represented' conservatism.

Those of us that were/are on the right side of the political spectrum have been frustrated for years, to varying degrees. The Tea Party movement and, I suppose, the Libertarians were an expression of that frustration.

As a 'conservative', I prided myself on having a 'pragmatic' viewpoint. I, therefore, have no qualms in saying the conservative movement, in general, is a complete failure. Fact! If you find yourself squirming in reaction to this, please, PLEASE use your own values to honestly assess the results your support has engendered. At best, those that honestly worked for the conservative ideals in our gov't achieved perhaps a slowing of the movement away from those ideals.

Those that were lured into the comfort zone of power and ended up only interested in maintaining their power have done nothing beyond rhetoric.

The Republican Party, as we have known it, Is DOA. It is merely waiting for the coroner's death certificate. Like it or not, that is reality,

That party is either going to get a complete makeover via Trump and the centrists or a third party will ensue subject to the same stresses, temptations and failings that are built into the system.

OK. "So now what?", you ask?

Put your coffee down, swallow your food, I don't want any untoward accidents...but, The average U.S. citizen is MORE qualified to dictate the politics of this nation than any group out there!!

Consider the fact that the Founding Fathers were, in fact, elitists in every sense of the word. (That opens a whole new subject for debate, in and of itself.)

For lack of a better term let's call it 'overview'. Our educated are too educated, too specialized, too vested in their incomes and groups and 'the machine', too insulated from suffering the effects that we, outside those comfort zones, almost instantly become aware of.

Never have we had a more politically, economically and socially aware populace than we do now. Sure, the percentile is low, but it's far, FAR greater than at the time of our nation's founding. What? A good 95%? Perhaps 98% couldn't have cared less if the new nation was formed, how it was formed or if nothing had changed at all.(I would guess.) Survival and sufficient food for the coming winter was our lot and interest.

Sure, that's a simplistic view of it, yet, in general, a fairly accurate one.

Now add in the current situation/scenario that if we do not define ourselves, those same over-educated, vested individuals will define it for us....and be without the 'overview' that our Founding Fathers kept, first and foremost, in mind from the start. (They've been defining it without us for a number of years anyways)

This is an overly long OP. Next, is stripping the more obvious lies out of the right's tenets....and the left's....

a reply to: nwtrucker

good OP and I especially liked this piece of knowledge: "The average U.S. citizen is MORE qualified to dictate the politics of this nation than any group out there!! "

Well-said my friend

a reply to: nwtrucker

I think we will end up with 4 or MORE political parties vying for power, that is if this country even makes it past this upcoming election. The 2 party system Dems/Repubs both hear the funeral dirge. The problem will be watching who is behind forming these so called parties?

They won't give up their power, and considering that the Democrat and Republican parties have BOTH been in the pocket of advancing "Globalism" will they be bold enough to form a party specifically advancing that agenda?

Also don't forget 1st past the post! It is good the parties are imploding, but don't kid yourself they are not well versed in still using multiple parties to still retain their authority.

a reply to: seeker1963

Glad to see someone else posting that video. Unfortunately it wouldn't fix all of America's problems (Australia is still basically a two-party country despite having FPtP) but it would certainly help.

It's pretty hilarious though, over here our conservative party are called liberals.

a reply to: nwtrucker

The problem isn't the ideology, it's the corruption within our system.

Our 2 party system is corrupt.

Having 4 or 5 parties will only give us a 4 or 5 party corrupt system.

Just my opinion.

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: nwtrucker

I think we will end up with 4 or MORE political parties vying for power, that is if this country even makes it past this upcoming election. The 2 party system Dems/Repubs both hear the funeral dirge. The problem will be watching who is behind forming these so called parties?

They won't give up their power, and considering that the Democrat and Republican parties have BOTH been in the pocket of advancing "Globalism" will they be bold enough to form a party specifically advancing that agenda?

Also don't forget 1st past the post! It is good the parties are imploding, but don't kid yourself they are not well versed in still using multiple parties to still retain their authority.

Oh I'm sure they will all be funded by Soros, he likes to back a winner.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Lie number one: Liberal's are evil. Conservatives are extremists.


We NEED our liberals. They are our artists, our dreamers. We were founded on a dream. A higher level. They come up with the ideas that improve our lot. Every conservative has that same idealistic creativity within them. That IS the liberal side of us. Without out it, we are dead as a species.


We NEED our conservatives. Not every idea put forth by our dreamers-perhaps not even a small fraction- are workable, practical or even desirable by the majority. Balance is key. The creative often ignores the reality of a flawed species, of the 'solutions' that create even worse problems.

Both are needed. It was when this nation was at it's best, collectively. Change, for it's own sake is ludicrous. 'No change' is a guarantee of extinction. Balance. Centrist...


Lie number two: Elitist...TPTB....'the rich' are the 'real' source of our problems.


Sorry, but our very Constitution, the concept of this nation is from 'elitists', the elite intellectuals with connections to France, et al. Without those elites this nation wouldn't even exist....

Are they major part of the current mess? Of course! So is the machine. So are we a major part of the mess. A significant ingredient to the overall mess. We knew better and ignored it, just as they did.


There are noble elites as there are swamp-crawling elites. Just like every other social and economic strata out there.


Nothing more than an excuse. A blame game. Avoidance of responsibility. That's the sad truth of it. Thee and me.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Great OP!

I find that traditional conservatism has given away to neo-conservatism, which is just liberalism dressed up. Caring about what people do in their bedrooms or the privacy of their own homes in general, access to abortion etc.

All these these restrictive mindsets where the government has to 'step in' to make laws and regulate are all liberal ideals really.

Real Conservatives would say that if it doesn't affect them personally, then it's none of their business and none of the government's either. Since elections and therefore electorates are bought, and institutions like religion and finance have the most to spend, it is their voice that ends up representing conservatives.

~Tenth

We can call ourselves anything we want, conservatives, liberals, moderates etc. but political parties are just entertainment for the corporate, military, financial, neocon, industrial complex; the real hidden power behind the curtain. The ultimate power cabal with no allegiance to anything except greed and profit.

Skull and Bones, not just for breakfast anymore....

S&F for your OP. I think that's two in our mutual history here at ATS. LOL.

I kid, of course.

Obviously there are groundswells against both major parties, and goodness knows it's long overdue.

The entire primary process needs to be reworked. Political parties should be outlawed.

The People should be given the power of referendum, initiative and recall via a Constitutional amendment.

It is important not to let "raw democracy" reign, as history does show us that we are subject to mob mentality and that can perpetuate horrors untold ... however ...

To be told at every National Election that we either have to eat the plate filled with feces or the one with the feces with ground glass in it ... is long overdue.

... and the Democrats day is coming as well ...

If conservatives want conservatism to live on, they better start acting like conservatives.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

One correction, Tenth.

Since elections and therefore electorates are bought

So let me get this straight. From the OP, I get the impression that - for a decent percentage of conservatives - the Conservative party does not adequately represent them or the interests of an actual conservative.... in other news, water is wet.

But wait... one of the only ways to alleviate the corruption is to elect in Trump to give Conservatives a make over?

Really? I'm not trying to be clever or sly, but honestly, man? Please tell me you can see the short-sightedness in this.

"The government is corrupt! The GOP does not represent most conservatives!"

Then why in Hell would ANYONE continue to vote for this?! Why continue to support it?!

I simply don't understand. This is political pandering 101, and politicians and "outsiders," (lol) both are using it to fire up their respective bases.

It just seems ultimately counterproductive to me. I'm being told that "the establishment is corrupt, government is too big, dey com'n 4 mah GUNZ," and all these people are screaming at the top of their lungs that the only way to turn these nasty trends around is... you guessed it, casting votes and supporting the very same establishment and system that was previously being denounced.

This "presidential election," has taken on the form of WWE wrestling. It's incredibly fake, scripted, and behind closed doors those who are "fighting," have close famalial ties to one another (Clintons and Trump).

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: tothetenthpower

One correction, Tenth.

Since elections and therefore electorates are bought

I've made the appropriate edit, you are entirely correct

~Tenth

a reply to: seeker1963


You very well could be right.


For the time being, at least, I will stick to my 'no party' party and retain my options to select the pragmatic solution, conservative or liberal and hope enough numbers feel the same way
. That 'could' result is far more power than any new party might engender....

"This isn't yo granddaddies GOP".

I think it was okay until the tea party came along... think Cruz and Palin. Everything sort of went to hell in a handbasket.
Once those nutbars are gone, they can rebuild the party in what it was intended to be.

Good post and for some reason our USA Oligarchy seems to remind me of the EU where everything is forced down the members throats without any recourse to fight back or at times remove the elected officials.

Funny thing is, we already have several other parties.... yet without airtime and exposure they are relegated to just a few passing sentences every election cycle.

I knew I agreed with you more then I didn't.

Both parties need to get their focus back to the practices of what a country needs to function properly.

Enough with the "anti" stuff.

And if I hear "disenfranchised" one more time, I'm going to hurl

That Which is Not Earned Has No Value.

a reply to: nwtrucker

You may enjoy this article.

Flashback: How a major political party crumbled — in 1852

After years of success, the Whig Party trudged toward the presidential election of 1852 beset by the kinds of woes currently afflicting the Republican Party. Would the party survive? That question loomed over the Whigs just as it does today's GOP.

Heading toward this year's convention in Cleveland, two former Republican presidents and a number of others from the party's establishment say they'll sit out the meeting because they can't stomach their party's presumptive nominee, Donald Trump. In 1852, President Millard Fillmore was a Whig, but the incumbent was no shoo-in for the nomination. Many party stalwarts were as resolutely set against him as are the organizers of this year's #NeverTrump movement.

At the Whig convention in Baltimore, as one ballot after another failed to nominate a candidate acceptable to all party factions, an Illinois delegate offered a prescient observation: "The Whig party is about to pass through the dark valley of the shadow of death," said U.S. Rep. Elihu Washburne.

A severe split within the Whig ranks, between partisans of Henry Clay and those of Zachary Taylor, preceded the party's convention in June 1848. (Library of Congress)

In fact, the party never emerged from the other side. Badly defeated in 1852, the Whig Party collapsed under the weight of its internal contradictions. It had attempted to be one thing to voters in one section of the country, quite another in a different section. Still, the Tribune attempted to minimize the election disaster, pooh-poohing reports by "various responsible and irresponsible authorities that the Whig Party is dead."

I will say that if the Republican party dies with this election, there will be another to step up and fill the vacuum created by its absence. Probably the Libertarian party since it is the most popular third party and many Republicans leave that party for the Libertarian one.

In the aftermath, many Northern Whigs went over to the newly formed Republican Party. Among them was Lincoln, who in accepting its nomination for Illinois senator in 1858, echoed a phrase uttered by Jesus. He was speaking of the nation, but his words could also serve as an epitaph for the Whig Party, in whose ranks he long marched:

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

originally posted by: RomeByFire
So let me get this straight. From the OP, I get the impression that - for a decent percentage of conservatives - the Conservative party does not adequately represent them or the interests of an actual conservative.... in other news, water is wet.

But wait... one of the only ways to alleviate the corruption is to elect in Trump to give Conservatives a make over?

Really? I'm not trying to be clever or sly, but honestly, man? Please tell me you can see the short-sightedness in this.

"The government is corrupt! The GOP does not represent most conservatives!"

Then why in Hell would ANYONE continue to vote for this?! Why continue to support it?!

I simply don't understand. This is political pandering 101, and politicians and "outsiders," (lol) both are using it to fire up their respective bases.

It just seems ultimately counterproductive to me. I'm being told that "the establishment is corrupt, government is too big, dey com'n 4 mah GUNZ," and all these people are screaming at the top of their lungs that the only way to turn these nasty trends around is... you guessed it, casting votes and supporting the very same establishment and system that was previously being denounced.

This "presidential election," has taken on the form of WWE wrestling. It's incredibly fake, scripted, and behind closed doors those who are "fighting," have close famalial ties to one another (Clintons and Trump).

The reason conservatives vote for fake conservatives is because fake conservatives lie about how evil taxes are. Life is expensive and with inflation it's getting worse and adding taxes on that is making the so called middle class poorer than the welfare class.