Taking on UFOs, out-of-the-box

Note 1 - Some thinking out loud ahead. A lot of personal opinion, mostly based on thinking, reading and a personal experience from the near past. Feel free to join in.

Note 2 - all healthy and well-informed skeptics proceed. In case you are a closed-minded denier/blind-believer or just a newbie to UFOs, I'd refer you to all UFO related threads and posts by TheGut, Kandinsky, IsaacKoi, Karl_12, miragemen, Orkojoker and some of the non-posting past members of ATS like MaybeMaybeNot, internos and maybe a few others that you could pick out from the responders to their threads. They have all the pieces that lead me to this post.

More and more I'm starting to lean towards the fact that none of the dozens of suggested hypothesis about the phenom are providing an answer for questions like who or why. And I think it's not about the lack of evidence (I'll get to that later) rather than the conclusions we can draw without the need for evidence. I'd most openly say "alien", but I'm not referring to extra-terrestrials. Neither am I talking inter-dimensional (if one would care to explain to me what inter-dimensional is, go for it). Also, I don't think it's human tech alone that can explain the phenom, tech capable of zapping tens of times the speed of sound or disappearing in an instant. OK, so did I manage lose pretty much 80% of you? Bear with me on this.

Definition - alien - not familiar or like other things you have known : different from what you are used to.

OK, now that we're back on track. The reason for my belief is pretty simple, actually. Anyone/thing that "advanced" would be capable of these:

* go completely undetected, if preferred

* make sure that its own true nature will never be completely revealed by literally rendering its agenda impossible to see through. Providing a healthy amount of layers to peel off, just enough to keep us looping.


Also:

* disregarding extremely rare natural phenomenon, physical apparitions AND/OR physical objects appear to be present in many UFO cases;

* there is the possibility of a mixture between some of the above-mentioned explanations accounting for some of these cases (and disregarding the tons of misidentifications and hoaxes);

* some of these objects show abilities to hover, accelerate at enormous rates, some even disappear in the blink of an eye;

* there is a pattern to a particular type of sightings that includes saucers/triangles, many times a number of them, many times - flying/hovering solo;

* Arnold's sighting wasn't the beginning of the UFO era, it was a milestone for the military and those in charge of the media. It was a part of the largest social engineering biz to take place so far, which was already taking place in the social mind due to the rapid world changes, with the introduction of technology into most every Westerner's home. This was all due to the fact that the military found their

* MOST IMPORTANT POINT - I find it highly likely there is human tech that can hover, be silent and also accelerate pretty fast and it has the shape of triangles and saucers, but these do not account for some of the "zapping" or disappearing cases, however, I believe the military/private sector are mimicking UFOs, based upon whatever the brightest minds on the planet could gather as details about these "flying" machines and the possible implications for us and what we know. They have probably also thought of these same thoughts, most certainly, among many other, too, when it came to UFOs. The so-called Illuminati alien-card (pun intended) has already been played and some of the most stubborn conspiracy theorists, considering themselves to be hardcore truthers have fallen for it.

* with Kubrick's Oddyssey in mind and the previous bulletpoint, too - if we accept that it's possible that UFOs have been around for a long time, then who's to say they weren't what inspired humans to invent the wheel? Just a curious thought.

* humankind's thirst for competition and being on top of the chain is a good motivator alone to try and copy UFOs, but since the populace was growing and life was getting easier to live and information was getting easier to spread, the military and top cats had to preset the stage before they got on with their attempts to recreate technologically some of the traits that UFOs show (I think this was after Paperclip and is USA's further continuation of whatever Hitler was trying to achieve behind curtains).

* military will push their agenda, even if they have to appear goofy in front of the crowd. They would resort to that in the case - they have realized that it's nothing in their own control and also, truth really can't be handled by the masses. See, UFOs seem to work for the military and their goals on so many levels, it'd be foolish not to start using them as an ace in the sleeve for all so many purposes.

* whoever/whatever is behind the UFO enigma when we put the military/private sector aside, is 1 - superior to humans by being successfully elusive for such a period of time; 2 - by being superior is absolutely aware of the "ripples" and effects they/it causes with its reoccurring nature on humans socially, individually and technologically; 3 - are local to Earth, and have something to do with our oceans, too.

At the end of the day it seems that UFOs don't only break physics laws, they didn't pass Occam, too - UFOs are what you least likely expect them to be.

And with all that said, I seem to think that I have to retract my statement - there is one theory put out there that seems to be close to truth. And it will turn out Kubrick is the best UFO researcher who ever lived.

Unfortunately, mainstream will not accept this, even if it turns out to be the correct path towards truth about UFOs, simply because it doesn't help the agenda. And if I'm correct, the goal of the agenda is Singularity. And if anyone smart enough in the military have figured this out some years ago, it would explain most of their following actions.

1) there is no "inter-dimensional " beings. The 11 dimensions are just to locate a point in the space/time of the multiverse. Everything exists at once in all 11.
2) I believed in aliens and the relation to UFOs . Up to a while back. I asked myself why would a race(or races) of super-mega-intellect want to cross a gazillion miles of space to visit this dust speck called Earth. There was absolutely no logical answer for that.

a reply to: Gothmog

I know it was easy back in the day. Where does the hunch lead you now, however?

Ah Femi Pardox... "where is everyone"

I tend to lean in the direction of Maybe just maybe were the first to get this far with out being wiped out by natural disasters, our own hand (on the edge of that one all the time, Humankind Meet interesting People and Kill them, that is our history).

But then....

Every race reaches a point that it stops looking outward and draws in like a turtle, locking themselves into virtual scenarios and forgets that there could be anyone out there.

Then Again,

Humans are the Super Villain on this planet, we are the top of the food chain for the most part, sure there are species on the planet that can take us out on a single basis but we drive whole species to extinction. It may be fair to assume that any other galaxy moving race out there would have a similar standing.

Which leads to,

Everyone is Listening for signs of life but No one is talking...

Or worse.

What we broadcast is so offensive that others see it and stay away...

I mean look at our Science fiction how many times do we Meet interesting Races, and wind up Fighting them (war of the worlds / Independence day), ****ing them (thanks capt. Kirk), enslaving them (District 9), discriminating against them (Star Wars where was chewies metal) It is literally what humans have done with every race of human we meet, we first go to war, then feel sorry for the survivors and try to help and impose our views on them...

Which Leads to It may be to Dangerous for them to contact us. Not for us but them, there is enough examples of what we will do when we find them that well I would not want to intentionally go rafting though bayou country after "The Hills have Eyes and or Deliverance" what makes you think alien intelligence would want to get to know Rednecks like us?

After all We Discovered how to Split the Atom before we Learned how to Leave the Planet, and what did we do with it?

We tried to Blow our own Race off the Face of the Planet.

Would you like to meet people that are that Insane?

a reply to: ch1n1t0
Sadly , and I do mean it , due to the number 2 in my post I had completely abandoned all I ever knew about aliens and UFOs. However, within the last 10 years and my love of Quantum Physics , I am drawn back . As Sagan would have said"Imagine if you will" that aliens are not interstellar.Imagine they reside in another universe in the multiverse.Now , they have ways of detecting when and where the "branes" would be "thin"(or very close together) between the 2 universes. Now you have no need of lightspeed or the energy required. You just merely have to have the know-how to punch through.Smaller craft , moving at leisure. Thinking it may be done with some form of harmonic resonance.(sounds a bit like Tesla and others, Yeah , I know)
Though once here , they could only remain as long as the entry point was "open" .

Plausible ? Maybe ? Who knows ?

a reply to: Gothmog

I asked myself why would a race(or races) of super-mega-intellect want to cross a gazillion miles of space to visit this dust speck called Earth. There was absolutely no logical answer for that.

Isn't there? How about the singularity being human consciousness, born an bred on a muddball in the middle of everywhere. I can easily imagine the existence of beings from all across the oceans of reality coming here to watch the birth. To help in the birth nudging our awareness here and there, coaxing our ability to wonder with little bits and drabs of unexplained phenomena.

originally posted by: Gothmog
I asked myself why would a race(or races) of super-mega-intellect want to cross a gazillion miles of space to visit this dust speck called Earth. There was absolutely no logical answer for that.

Cultural interests? Research? Perhaps sentient life is so tragically rare in the cosmos that its very existence is extraordinary?

Instead of being the first technological species, maybe we're the latest and what came before us has long passed the biological stage. Watching us might be similar to us watching the Heidels.

Who knows? I'm not arguing for the ideas above; only doubting the validity of your use of 'absolutely.'

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Gothmog

I asked myself why would a race(or races) of super-mega-intellect want to cross a gazillion miles of space to visit this dust speck called Earth. There was absolutely no logical answer for that.

Isn't there? How about the singularity being human consciousness, born an bred on a muddball in the middle of everywhere. I can easily imagine the existence of beings from all across the oceans of reality coming here to watch the birth. To help in the birth nudging our awareness here and there, coaxing our ability to wonder with little bits and drabs unexplained phenomena.

I used to be a dreamer , too . But you would ask , how would they know ? Why would they care ? Again , there is no logical progression answer. The amount of energy required to even make it to near light speed = infinite (per Einstein) and that is not for 100% . No 186,282 miles per second for you. And at that speed it would be over before they arrived (again , per Einstein and time dilation)
No devil this go-around.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Cultural interests? Research?

Again , if they have the capability and the intellect (not to mention the infinite energy required)(well , not counting element 0 ,Mass Effect, and Mass Relays) they would care freakin less about a sub ameoba ,unintelligent(to them) being called human.
no devil this go-around , either

Recall , the "absolutely" was my thinking at the time.Meaning no disrespect to any one else's thinking.

To sum it up :
It is theorized the more questions that we answer about the universe , the next one gets exponentially more difficult to answer . By the time a species was at a level to travel at light speed or warp space , there would probably be no need for emotion. No curiosity , no empathy to want to see a new "species" emerging. There would be no need for research as to them we would be meaningless.

Just had an idea though.Something that could explain alien visitation. Anyone familiar with the old Twilight Zone episode titled "To Serve Man" ? Think about it. (If you dont know it , Google)
Peace to all.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Gothmog

I asked myself why would a race(or races) of super-mega-intellect want to cross a gazillion miles of space to visit this dust speck called Earth. There was absolutely no logical answer for that.

Isn't there? How about the singularity being human consciousness, born an bred on a muddball in the middle of everywhere. I can easily imagine the existence of beings from all across the oceans of reality coming here to watch the birth. To help in the birth nudging our awareness here and there, coaxing our ability to wonder with little bits and drabs unexplained phenomena.

I used to be a dreamer , too . But you would ask , how would they know ? Why would they care ? Again , there is no logical progression answer. The amount of energy required to even make it to near light speed = infinite (per Einstein) and that is not for 100% . No 186,282 miles per second for you. And at that speed it would be over before they arrived (again , per Einstein and time dilation)
No devil this go-around.

Yet, as absolutely correct as you are there is still the possibility that none of what you correctly point out matters. Because for all any of us know, or think we know, we may not know how much we don't know. Still. We have followed our imaginations a long long way and I see no reason to give up on them now.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire
I recanted a bit..read my post right above yours.

Patty cries: "Mr. Chambers, don't get on that ship! The rest of the book To Serve Man, it's... it's a ______"

Peace.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: TerryMcGuire
I recanted a bit..read my post right above yours.

Patty cries: "Mr. Chambers, don't get on that ship! The rest of the book To Serve Man, it's... it's a ______"

Peace.

I was ten when that first aired. There was nothing out there like that, like the Twilight Zone. I watched them all, week after week after week and it blew my little boys mind right out of its circuits.

a reply to: ch1n1t0
So what, does

Singularity.

bring to mind to you?

a reply to: ch1n1t0


I don't get your point, except you express an opinion that about any UFO researcher has concluded decades ago.

Kubrick "the best UFO researcher that ever lived?" How do you figure? He merely presented the unresolved mystery of existence in a popular form and totally without substance (still, I love his work). Why not cite Jung and his theory for explaining the apparent reality of UFOs? How far did that get us toward a genuine understanding of the phenomena?

In short, I found nothing new in your thread that hasn't been put out there a thousand times. I must assume that you write for the younger readers, but for us oldies from back in the origins of the "coming of the flying saucers," I found nothing enlightening.

a reply to: Aliensun

Greets and thanks for the replies. I'm not looking to enlighten anyone other than myself. When I put my thoughts into words it helps my perspective. Also, it helps if I share it with other people who might respond with feedback either confirming or denying my stance.

Maybe I haven't been very clear about the main point of the thread but I'm pretty sure deceit is UFOs second name. With that in mind and the advancement they have in comparison to our understanding and control of physical laws - these "guys" would want you to be falsely looking at the stars. Actually, wherever you look you would be bound to error, because anyone so advanced/smart would have developed a shroud, heavy enough to be revealed by anyone out there, witnessing or guessing what this might be that we're seeing.

And I do agree, it's all fun to look at the stars and imagine what might be out there, or to imagine multiverses and how these might contain life and intelligent one at that can exist after entering into ours (extremely difficult to accept with the fact in mind that if multiverses exist, they'd be infinite, as well as inifinitely different from ours in terms of governing laws, etc). I just think that has nothing to do with UFOs. Additionally, it seems that three main theories remain in my mind with all that said:

1 - It's a local species to Earth, or an alien one, that have been here long before we came into being.
2 - All UFOs prior to the 1940s were misidentifications or natural phenomenon, and it's all human tech, these discs and triangles (luring possibility, but somehow I don't buy it to its full extent)
3 - It's nothing that we can even begin to name or imagine, something that is so advanced that we merely shift through centuries and start applying whatever understanding of the world we have to explain it. At first they were from Venus, then they went further out the edge of the solar system, until we realized the distances in the Cosmos and started to understand it better. Then, they turned out to be inter-stellar. Well, duh, I think almost nothing points to that reality from what UFOs express as characteristics.

I'm slowly but surely starting to think that asking "Who's behind it" is a wrong question. Many of the surrounding questions, however, might very well lead to the answer of this one, as long as we forget about it for awhile.

Edit to add - Kubrick fits the third option. And the Singularity bit, too. Jung is also an author many people are not aware of and should be, when it comes to UFOs. Terry asked about the Singularity - this possibility leads me to believe that UFOs and the Singularity are connected, if not even the UFOs have been here all along just to make us reach it. UFOs might very well be an extension of this Singularity. But I don't believe in travelling back in time yet. Which more and more points me in another direction - this, so-called Singularity, is the main goal of the game. Or the level at least. And if it is - then this would explain the radio silence for our attempts to hear out something from the Cosmos.

a reply to: ch1n1t0

Really hard to discuss something that is by name and its very nature....unidentifiable.

No matter the discussion...it unfortunately will remain unidentified... until proven otherwise.

Interesting thread here though!

Aside from our shadow para military operations, though they are using et technologies and working with low frequency pirate type ETs, this is pertaining to the only thing I call ufology.

Real ufology relates to Higher Levels of Alien, offworld, species and technology.

They manage earth and all planets, its not just visiting as a rare event, like so many assume. We're very low tech, on the surface. Have to wonder how low our secret space program is, I suspect they portal out of the solar system already and as reconpilot said, surround low tech planets because our cabal here is absolutely evil.

Real ET is your Family. You are cosmic, your soul. This is a low level prison/school/holding place to grow up in.

Theories are nothing compared to experiences and memories.

The kinds of ETs here, human looking ones, greys, different types of greys, some rose colored and twig like bodies, mantis and reptoid, cetecean types, and things I really don't want to think about.

Humans are overall the good guys in this.

a reply to: ch1n1t0

My own take on this ufo phenomenon is they are merely lights/sprits from the ground that are flying around.

1 The introduction of cremating bodies in the west has created spirits that are air born and not fixed in the ground.

2 The introduction of initially maps of the world then visuals from the sky from cameras and satellites gives the modern spirits a new understanding of locations and capability to travel between these places. Thus the lights in the sky are basically spiritual in nature and are travelling the Earth/sky with a new modern understanding of long distance travel where once they'd have stayed in the one location/church yard.

I don't think UFO's are extraterrestrial. I subscribe to the interdimensional theory, with some possible time travel thrown in the mix.

If you've read the book Hunt for the Skinwalker, you'll understand exactly what I'm saying. So much weirdness on the ranch of all kinds, and none of it made any sense