Drinking the Golden Calf; Exodus 32

a reply to: Klassified I like the way you thinky.

a reply to: Parazurvan

The word used in Exodus 32:4 which in the KJV is translated as "molten" is מַסֵּכָה (maccekah) is in the feminine and so could be best translated as "web", "covering", "veil" or "woven stuff".

The verse actually says that Aaron carved or engraved the idol and then covered it.

A better direct translation would be: "He received from their hands, bound it, used an engraving tool, fashioned it, made it covered into a bull calf".

Later in verse 24, Aaron claims that he just threw the gold into the fire and out came the calf, not acknowledging the engraving and shaping, so it is obviously a lie.

Also, in verse 20, Moses burnt the idol. This would imply that it was most likely made of something flammable and not gold (like wood covered in gold leaf perhaps?).

The leap to assuming that it was monatomic gold powder or some other modern internet fiction is out of context with the rest of the Bible, natural physics, the true translation of the text and what we know of history.

Read a little about monoatomic gold and other ORMUS substances.

That being said, monoatomic gold could theoretically be created briefly, as gold transitions from a gas to a liquid, provided that you overcome the Van der Waals force that tries to bind it together to form molecules.

So, you'd have to raise the gold's temperature above 2,807 degrees Centigrade until it had boiled away to a gas, then cool it back to the 2,807 degrees point where the phase change would just occur (of course even rock is liquid at 1,300 degrees Centigrade, so how you'd contain it is beyond me).

Then you'd have to keep the atoms from joining up to form molecules. The Van der Waals force between two atoms at the 0.3-0.6 nm distance would be in the 0.4-4.0 kJ per mol of gold. 1 mol of gold is 197.96 grams so you'd need to reverse the attraction with more than 2,020 Joules per gram of gold. To work on 1 kilogram of gold would, therefore, require 2 MegaJoules of energy. That is about the same as the output of 26,719 petrol engines, each rated at 100 horsepower.

Aside from how that energy could possibly be applied so as to resist the Van der Waals forces, it is fairly plain that some late bronze age desert wanderers would be under resourced to do it.

I'd guess that anything burned in a fire and then the ground up (in the situation) was most likely, wood.

a reply to: chr0naut

Yeah I am not interested in the KJV or your opinions you are nothing bug an apologetic who is trying to annoy me.

The KJV is garbage. But my Bible is properly translated, I'm not going to dispute translation differences that are irrelevant.


All you do is take the topic you disagree with, Google it and repeat some of what you just read. It means nothing and anyone could do it on any topic.

Nor do I care much about this monoatomic gold. I am more interested in the ancient legends.

Weep for Tammuz!!!

The gold would fuse to the water molecules and when evaporated it became toxic. If they drank it, they would get very sick as nano gold in a high concentration would short out the human body pretty well. So he had the Levites kill all the people that they got out of Egypt. Then the rest were forced to wander around the desert for forty years till Moses died, this would have gotten Moses thrown into the brink if they went into a city, they had humanity laws back then too.

So who exactly did Moses save if he killed them all?

Moses delivers the tablets saying though shall not kill after changing gods mind and getting orders from god not to kill the people. So why did he kill them anyway? it was no longer gods wish. On top of that, the people who worshiped the golden calf were all killed, so god was punishing the ones that killed off the rest of the people. Thou shalt not kill is a law of god.

originally posted by: Parazurvan
a reply to: chr0naut

Yeah I am not interested in the KJV or your opinions you are nothing bug an apologetic who is trying to annoy me.

The KJV is garbage. But my Bible is properly translated, I'm not going to dispute translation differences that are irrelevant.


All you do is take the topic you disagree with, Google it and repeat some of what you just read. It means nothing and anyone could do it on any topic.

Nor do I care much about this monoatomic gold. I am more interested in the ancient legends.

Weep for Tammuz!!!

I agree that the KJV is not the best of translations. That is why there are so many other popular translations. Please tell me what version of the Bible you were quoting. It would seem to have some of the same errors as the KJV.

I am not trying to annoy you. This is ATS, where stuff is discussed and debated. I am discussing and debating what you posted. If you wished to have a one way broadcast of your opinions, then this isn't the place.

I have an academic background of over 40 years, well before the advent of the computer or the Internet, and that informs my opinions and therefore, many of the points I raise. I must admit, I do use Google to check my facts. I also use Wikipedia. Neither are authoritative, I know, but, as a mature guy who has read and studied a lot, my memory is less reliable than when the world was young. So I seek to reassure myself that I have not 'misremembered'.

You were the one who mentioned monatomic gold in your first post. Now you discard it? Oh well, your prerogative.

As I have previously demonstrated, you are actually only interested in what you believe are ancient legends. The truth is that you keep discussing modern legends that purport to be ancient, but aren't (remember that the majority of my academic career was well before the Internet. I remember things from back then know when it is recent BS).

Weep instead for a generation raised on YouTube and Biblioteca Pléyades, who don't know Darwinism from the MES, couldn't tell # from clay and assume that people would never just 'make stuff up' and then post it on the Internet.

a reply to: Parazurvan

I believeth yond the calf wast nay m're than just a chuckle.
The bull nam'd ashur once f'rgotten, but t seemeth King Sargon wast begotten.

a reply to: chr0naut

You just nitpick everything like you are writing an essay and now you're a 40 year academic you're telling me for what reason?

Because you don't know everything and anything you see that you don't like you go to Google and find something that agrees with you or spew random uncheckable or irrelevant information until it looks like you wrote a rebuttal. Sadly, your facts are almost always incorrect and all the websites and facts can't tell you you are wrong.

Regardless, Moses did turn gold to powder and that can not and was not done just with fire.

And he ordains the Levites as a reward for slaughtering 3000 of their fellow Israelites after they mysteriously start running around like they are on something and only Levites join Moses as if they did not drink the water and are not messed up.

It is a curious story if your goal wasn't just to write long essays trying to show you are the smartest as if more words=more right and more smart. You are essentially just transferring the information you just looked up and pretending to be an expert. It is obvious because nobody just happens to know everything about everything you do all the time like a walking encyclopedia.

But when you are wrong about every time like you it isn't hard to see what you are trying to do. I wouldn't be surprised if you were just interested in making sure people don't think different from what you want them to. Or even think at all. You are like the Inquisition. Thought police.

a reply to: Cinanev

The calf did represent Asherah the goddess. El would've been the bull.

How about the metal serpent staff?

a reply to: Parazurvan

A sir did dress in simple robes at each moment holds a rod at his dispose, two broth'rs hath fallen, on is hath called Flibbertigibbet the oth'r is thee.

originally posted by: Parazurvan
a reply to: chr0naut

You just nitpick everything like you are writing an essay and now you're a 40 year academic you're telling me for what reason?

Because you don't know everything and anything you see that you don't like you go to Google and find something that agrees with you or spew random uncheckable or irrelevant information until it looks like you wrote a rebuttal. Sadly, your facts are almost always incorrect and all the websites and facts can't tell you you are wrong.

Regardless, Moses did turn gold to powder and that can not and was not done just with fire.

And he ordains the Levites as a reward for slaughtering 3000 of their fellow Israelites after they mysteriously start running around like they are on something and only Levites join Moses as if they did not drink the water and are not messed up.

It is a curious story if your goal wasn't just to write long essays trying to show you are the smartest as if more words=more right and more smart. You are essentially just transferring the information you just looked up and pretending to be an expert. It is obvious because nobody just happens to know everything about everything you do all the time like a walking encyclopedia.

But when you are wrong about every time like you it isn't hard to see what you are trying to do. I wouldn't be surprised if you were just interested in making sure people don't think different from what you want them to. Or even think at all. You are like the Inquisition. Thought police.

So now you are quite definite that Moses turned gold into powder and that there is no other interpretation?

a reply to: chr0naut

Moses did destroy the age of gold and madeth the age of c'rn to sir, but sir seeks gold not c'rn.

originally posted by: Cinanev
a reply to: chr0naut

Moses did destroy the age of gold and madeth the age of c'rn to sir, but sir seeks gold not c'rn.

Deep drawn the draught from gold'n calf, caus'ed wayw'd Israel to barf!

a reply to: chr0naut

Sons of the sands w're men of war, those gents did see a throne madeth of bone not c'rn.

originally posted by: intrptr

Just returning to say its foolish to consider consuming gold, the body doesn't utilize it anywhere, it would just pass through the gut and into the sewers.

Maybe thats the plan, to get people buying and consuming gold and passing it to the sewage treatment plant…

…what a novel idea to make even more money.

I know , lets use bible 'stories' to get people on board.

Lets claim its 'good for you' to crap gold.

That is true recycling .And one heck of a way to recirculate money

a reply to: Parazurvan

Yeah I am not interested in the KJV or your opinions you are nothing bug an apologetic who is trying to annoy me.

Bite your tongu-- keyboard. Everything he just stated was accurate and informative. You should thank him for taking the time to type it all out to you…

Pearls before Swine, heavy sigh.

a reply to: chr0naut

Yeah again I don't care about your alleged academic accomplishments.

All you do is take subjects you don't understand and try and sour any fruitful conversation by posting freshly googled information that you don't know anything about and think as long as you type enough words it will look like a rebuttal even if it is just drivel and you always think you are correct but your understanding of the Bible is most basic so that any subject beyond your comprehension ticks you off so you have to bug whoever sent it and when it is explained to you you reject any information even if proof or at least evidence is provided, the topic is well established and academically decided in my favor.

I would not be surprised if all you want is to get people to think like you or not think at all.

Yes I am quite certain that Moses turned gold into powder:

Exodus 32:20

He took the calf that they had made, BURNED IT WITH FIRE, GROUND IT TO POWDER, scattered it on the water, and made the Israelites drink it.

So it isn't an interpretation it is just what it says. You can make it mean anything you want but I am going to go by the actual words used because I get what it means. The god-Pharaohs used to consume a substance that was described just like it. And the monoatomic gold that is talked about on the internet about having properties that would make it one hell of a connection. I just said be skeptical and look into at the end of my op.

If such a substance exists it is not going to be announced from any official sources and would be kept secret or denied for obvious reasons. No need to say anything more on the topic.


So yes Moses did turn gold into powder, did have the apostates drink it and have 3000 people killed by the Levite's. Then he ordained them and blessed them for it.

You feel free to interpret it however you want but you can't say that I am wrong about anything without facts to back it up and the Bible is full of interesting stories.

You could, if you weren't obsessed with people who don't think like you and writing essays on everything I say that you don't understand, have fun with it instead of trying to be a know it all. Anyone who has dealt with you knows you just search the internet when you come across something you don't like, for information that would seem like it supports what you want to be true and write one of your essays. But since opinions are a dime a dozen one the internet especially the Bible that is not difficult. You might get away with it with someone else but if I state something as true you can damn well believe I have already listened to all the arguments and know what I say to be true based on all reliable information.

So when you argue with bad information I can tell right away because as the person who brought it up I have heard all the bs fundamental interpretations and what historians, archeologists and academia have to say and if I DON'T know something for a fact I make it clear.

You are like the thought police who swoops in and tries to destroy any independent thought by pretending to be educated in every topic when you are most likely using a phone to Google opinions like yours and then typing what is said and present it as fact that you already know.

Hence, the reason for your announcement of "40 years in academia" or whatever you said to make it look like you are not doing what I said. But you so obviously are it isn't going to work. You might keep your fellow fundamentals in line but I can live with that.

Now unless you want to have a fruitful, non argumentative discussion about the contents of the op I have will have no further communication with. If you just want to make everyone think you are the smartest person by copying the opinions of people who agree with you go ahead. Every opinion in existence is on the internet and people are hip to people like you trying to stifle discussion with apologetics and what amounts to propaganda.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Parazurvan

Yeah I am not interested in the KJV or your opinions you are nothing bug an apologetic who is trying to annoy me.

Bite your tongu-- keyboard. Everything he just stated was accurate and informative. You should thank him for taking the time to type it all out to you…

Pearls before Swine, heavy sigh.

Yeah you are only saying that because I showed that your interpretation wasn't accurate, in a polite manner, and ever since you have been steamed.

Well I happened to be correct then and now and you are trying to latch on to anyone who is a fellow fundamental simple interpretation only Christian and trust me, or don't either way, but cronut casts no pearls and actually in this parable he/she would be the swine who gets the simple meaning and I would be the one with the pearls, the true meaning. Which would also make you the swine.

Damn, learn your parables better.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Parazurvan

Well thanks for not answering any of my direct questions, like why a golden calf and where is gold utilized in the human bodies structure?

You want to spin more un proven gods and goddesses into the tale than are already there isn't cutting it.

Why a golden calf and how is consuming gold 'helping' the body?

I told you already, in regards to your question "why a golden calf" is because that was the symbol for the goddess Asherah. She is, along with other Mesopotamian/Mid east deities, mentioned in the Bible and was worshipped by the Israelites on and off until 7-500 BC.

She was the wife of Yahweh and/or Baal as the archeological evidence proves and formerly the wife of El.

So I didn't spin anything you just aren't informed about Asherah. You could always Google Yahweh and Asherah if you don't believe me.

As I do not work in a laboratory or have the scientific knowledge, I can not say how this would affect the body. Everything I know about it I have already said. Again you could Google it.

All that I know is that powdered Gold was consumed in this chapter of Exodus, and is being researched today. In ancient Egypt it is said that a substance of similar description was consumed in Egypt by the god pharaohs.

a reply to: chr0naut

You brought up the earlier description of Aaron making a mold and casting an image of a calf and then proceed to say he was lying.

A perfect example of you focusing on the irrelevant to argue anything because you are not interested in the topic only in arguing against what I am saying period.

Was Aaron a trained goldsmith and metallurgist? Did the Israelites have access in the desert to the metal to make the mold, the proper machinery to make a hot enough fire to melt gold? Not even possible never mind likely.

It is an allegorical story and not a real event so it isn't important whether or not Aaron was lying because it's not a true story.

And monoatomic gold is powdered gold. The ancient Pharoahs are also said to have consumed a similar substance. Monoatomic gold is being researched and is said to have phenomenal properties.

None of that is a leap. It is connecting the dots. Feel free to not like it but it isn't going to make a difference because your opinion is only yours.

You don't like anyone speculating on biblical matters if they aren't in line with your view. OK. But you are a stubborn fundamentalist so that is the norm. You think you have the truth and everyone who doesn't accept Jesus is wrong.

You have an agenda. You need to be right and will deny being wrong and if proof exists you will say you don't believe it because of one reason or another.

I kind of feel bad for you but you I don't when it comes to you stating your opinion as fact when it isn't.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Parazurvan
a reply to: chr0naut

You just nitpick everything like you are writing an essay and now you're a 40 year academic you're telling me for what reason?

Because you don't know everything and anything you see that you don't like you go to Google and find something that agrees with you or spew random uncheckable or irrelevant information until it looks like you wrote a rebuttal. Sadly, your facts are almost always incorrect and all the websites and facts can't tell you you are wrong.

Regardless, Moses did turn gold to powder and that can not and was not done just with fire.

And he ordains the Levites as a reward for slaughtering 3000 of their fellow Israelites after they mysteriously start running around like they are on something and only Levites join Moses as if they did not drink the water and are not messed up.

It is a curious story if your goal wasn't just to write long essays trying to show you are the smartest as if more words=more right and more smart. You are essentially just transferring the information you just looked up and pretending to be an expert. It is obvious because nobody just happens to know everything about everything you do all the time like a walking encyclopedia.

But when you are wrong about every time like you it isn't hard to see what you are trying to do. I wouldn't be surprised if you were just interested in making sure people don't think different from what you want them to. Or even think at all. You are like the Inquisition. Thought police.

So now you are quite definite that Moses turned gold into powder and that there is no other interpretation?

Exodus 32:20 He took the calf that they had made, burned it with fire, ground it TO POWDER, scattered it on the water, and made the Israelites drink it.

Perfect example of you pretending to know the topic and not even knowing the words, but having no problem with arguing about the contents that you don't even correctly know.

You asked if I am sure he turned it into powder as if it wasn't explicitly stated in the Bible that he did. Proof you are not aware of what it says.

But why can't you argue about stuff in a deceptive manner? It's a free country. If you want to ignore complicated passages that you don't understand you can comment still.

You look foolish but it is your choice.