EgyptAir plane crash cause feared to be Fire bomb hidden in plane's toilet after black box recorder

Investigators probed the main theory as jet panels and items including a baby’s sleeping bag and a tattered life jacket were found at the Mediterranean crash area.

A locator beacon bleep from one of flight MS804’s two black box recorders was also detected on the seabed yesterday.

It almost certainly holds the key to Thursday’s horror which killed all 66 people on board.

EgyptAir plane crash cause feared to be Fire bomb hidden in plane's toilet after black box recorder found

I can't remember if the Sun is a terrible source. I want to say it is, but still wanted to get this info out.

The Egyptians are still maintaining this was a terror attack, but no groups have come forward yet. Any speculation from you guys why no group would be taking responsibility? I would think they would e very proud of themselves for committing such a horrific act.

I find it incredibly disturbing there were so many people working at the airport that were on terror watch lists. How is that even possible?

a reply to: Domo1

Neither of the recorders have been found, let alone recovered and decoded.

As for the source?

Smoke detectors were set off and a cockpit window was either blown out or opened to ventilate the 13-year-old plane as it spun out of control.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the source.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Aviation expert Philip Baum told the BBC: "There was smoke reported in the aircraft lavatory, then smoke in the avionics bay, and over a period of three minutes the aircraft's systems shut down, so you know, that's starting to indicate that it probably wasn't a hijack, it probably wasn't a struggle in the cockpit, it's more likely a fire on board."

Are they just making this part up? I suppose it wouldn't surprise me.

a reply to: Domo1

See my edit.

The pingers were reported to have been heard earlier, but like other stories, it was later denied that they heard them. They're going to have a difficult time finding them, due to the terrain on the bottom and the depth.

What Zaphod58 said.

Anyone claiming its terrorism at this point is fear mongering.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Gotcha. Let's just put this in the trash where it belongs.

a reply to: Domo1

ACARS reported a fault in one of the right hand windows, probably the window heater, followed immediately by smoke in the lavatory, smoke in the avionics bay, and then flight control malfunctions, along with more window faults. That part is true.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yeah I see where I got all goofus, I thought they got that info off of the box.

Might have to post guards during maintenance to frisk out employees and keep a close eye one them at all points of contact with the air craft to hell with the cost.

a reply to: Zaphod58

If you had to speculate what would you guess?

These are the messages that came through ACARS.

00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW
00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR
00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE
00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE
00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT
00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT

First posted here by earthling42.

It starts with the right window anti-icing system, possibly a short in it. Then the sliding window sensor, possibly shorted by the anti-icing system, then goes to the lav and avionics. The last two are flight control related, and probably are what caused them to finally crash.

a reply to: Domo1

Based on just the ACARS messages, I'd say the window heater shorted and possibly blew a window out and started a fire, or shorted and started a fire. They had a problem with those several years ago, and the FAA mandated all A320 cockpit windows be changed.

I wouldn't rule out terrorism, or anything else, that's just my WAG based on what we know right now. Once they find the actual wreckage, and recover it and the recorders we'll find out more.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Experts say flight data 'points towards a bomb' as first pictures emerge of MS804's wreckage and search teams 'discover black box'.

Maybe I'm Mandella Effecting over here but I could have sworn that Greece had already found the black boxes.

We should probably start taking screen grabs of various articles.

Regardless, the above article states that the black boxes have been found.

Apparently, it flew right thru Phoenix Express 2016.

Phoenix Express 2016 Commences.

SOUDA BAY, Greece (NNS) -- Maritime forces from Europe, North Africa, and the United States began the 10th iteration of the multinational maritime Exercise Phoenix Express, May 17.

Phoenix Express, sponsored by U.S. Africa Command (AFRICOM) and facilitated by U.S. Naval Forces Europe-Africa/U.S. 6th Fleet, is designed to improve regional cooperation, increase maritime domain awareness information-sharing practices, and operational capabilities to enhance efforts to achieve safety and security in the Mediterranean Sea.

Greek officials said it was taking "evasive action" (abrupt turns) prior to going down.

Greg Feith speculates that they were not trying to avoid another plane. But the plane's actions would be consistent with trying to avoid a missile.

As the story unfolds, I'm beginning to think that we'll never know what really happened.

a reply to: gladtobehere

They reported earlier today that they had heard the pingers, but the Egyptian military later said they hadn't. No one has even found the main portion of the wreckage yet, let alone anything like the recorders.

It wasn't taking evasive action. Emergency procedures call for a 90 degree left turn out of the airway, and then they apparently lost stabilizer control, or partial stabilizer control and went out of control and crashed.

A senior official at the Egyptian Civil Aviation Ministry has denied media reports that EgyptAir Flight 804's cockpit voice and flight data recorders, commonly known as the black boxes, have been located.

The official spoke Saturday on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to speak to the media.

Military spokesman Brig-Gen. Mohammed Samir also says Saturday he had no information to share on the location or the retrieval of the black boxes.

The boxes are believed to be in Mediterranean waters around 180 miles (290 kilometers) north of Alexandria. The waters are 8,000 to 10,000 feet deep (2,440 to 3,050 meters), and the pings from the black boxes can be detected up to a depth of 20,000 feet (6 kilometers).

www.wlox.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58

Based on just the ACARS messages, I'd say the window heater shorted and possibly blew a window out and started a fire, or shorted and started a fire. They had a problem with those several years ago, and the FAA mandated all A320 cockpit windows be changed.

That makes the most sense for a layperson such as myself, and you're the plane expert so good enough for me until they get the boxes.

I'm sure you've had to answer this many times, but isn't there some way for the planes to constantly upload data so they become somewhat less reliant on black boxes, or can at least be found with a little more ease?

a reply to: Domo1

They're working on that. It's going to take the best part of 10 years to implement them all, but that's aviation for you. Go slow and fight everything.

This week, ICAO approved a requirement that new aircraft designs approved after Jan. 1, 2021, have some means for retrieving a plane’s recorders, or the information contained in them, before the recorder sinks to the ocean floor. One possibility is a deployable recorder that automatically ejects from a plane upon impact and floats to the ocean’s surface. They’re widely used in military aircraft, but Boeing says cases where they’ll be needed are likely to be fewer than instances in which they accidently deploy, potentially causing injuries and property damage.

An alternative is to have planes in distress automatically relay the data via satellite to ground stations, eliminating the need to search for the box. But there are many unanswered questions about security and custody of the information.

Even then, it might be 2028 or later before planes with either deployable recorders or a means to transmit the recorder’s data before a crash enter service because of the time lag between the approval of new plane designs and when they are ready to fly.

The new requirements don’t include cockpit voice recordings. MH370 contained a two-hour voice recorder that recorded in a continuous loop. Even if the recorder is ever found, it is likely that critical information from early in the flight was erased.

ICAO also adopted a standard this week requiring planes manufactured after Jan. 1, 2021, to include 25-hour voice recorders to capture an entire flight, as well as crew preparations beforehand. The requirement doesn’t apply to planes already in service, which can have lifespans of 20 years or more.

skift.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58

I suppose with the number of flights going all at once they couldn't feasibly be relaying that much information all the time could they?

Couldn't they design some sort of if this than that type of deal to make sure the charged box didn't deploy needlessly? I'm sure much brighter minds than my own have been working on it.

Can we delete the thread? I don't want to keep spreading misinformation. I'll report it if need be.

a reply to: Domo1

We generally don't delete them just because the source was wrong. Nothing wrong with steering the discussion the right way.

As for the data recorders, they would start transmitting when the aircraft showed certain signs of distress, or the aircraft was destroyed in a crash. They wouldn't transmit all the time.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Ah OK, I just don't want to mislead anyone and it wouldn't let me edit.

Aren't there failsafes for shorts? It seems odd that a window de icer shorting out would be catastrophic.

a reply to: Domo1

They sent out an airworthiness directive warning of the problem and recommending changing that particular window, but it's not clear if everyone did or not.

Another scary prospect is that Airbus, as late as 2000, used a type of Kapton wiring. That stuff is dangerous as hell. The Navy did tests in the 80s and their results were mildly horrifying. They grounded all their aircraft that had that type of wiring in them where they couldn't replace it.