Superdelegates Switching To Bernie!?

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Sillyolme

She's being investigated by the FBI and that alone should disqualify anyone.

On the surface, I agree with this sentiment.

But surely you can see the gross potential for abuse of such power if simply being under investigation by the FBI, or any LEO agency for that matter, would preclude you from running for office.

It would be far too easy to stifle dissenting candidates, an "outsider" would never have a shot in hell again.

I hope Bernie beats her, but Bernie cant beat Trump, I don't care what polls say. Bernie hasn't had any negative ads yet, if Bernie beats Hillary prepare for an onslaught of negative ads and Bernie goes way down, I still hope Bernie beats her.

originally posted by: MEDIKATED
I hope Bernie beats her, but Bernie cant beat Trump, I don't care what polls say. Bernie hasn't had any negative ads yet, if Bernie beats Hillary prepare for an onslaught of negative ads and Bernie goes way down, I still hope Bernie beats her.

Do you really think the anti-Bernie ads would be worse than the anti-Clinton ads? The right wing has hated the Clintons for decades. Literally. Did you forget they impeached Bill when he was the President? And they've had an ongoing 4 year witch trial over the Benghazi attacks w/Hillary. Not to mention every other thing they can bring up about the Clintons, like Monica & the other affairs, the Clinton Foundation's shady deals, Hillary's decades worth of flip flopping quotes on policy, Hillary's email scandal, etc.

The worst they can do with Bernie is call him a socialist, which isn't even considered a bad thing anymore lol. Far more independents and right wingers like or can tolerate Bernie over Hillary.

Clinton is very shady, it is well documented that she does things that are unacceptable to many Americans from laughing at getting off a rapistist from her defense attorney days to the Benghazi fiasco. Whereas really all they have against Bernie is that he is a liberal socialist, and that argument fails upon deeper examination because many things in America are already socialized with tax payer dollars from either local or federal taxs; roads, police, firemen, courts, military, prisons and every form of government...it's an endless list, all Bernie wants to do is add to that list. Once a person understands that, Bernie has the least negatives of either Trump or Hillary.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: MEDIKATED
I hope Bernie beats her, but Bernie cant beat Trump, I don't care what polls say. Bernie hasn't had any negative ads yet, if Bernie beats Hillary prepare for an onslaught of negative ads and Bernie goes way down, I still hope Bernie beats her.

Do you really think the anti-Bernie ads would be worse than the anti-Clinton ads? The right wing has hated the Clintons for decades. Literally. Did you forget they impeached Bill when he was the President? And they've had an ongoing 4 year witch trial over the Benghazi attacks w/Hillary. Not to mention every other thing they can bring up about the Clintons, like Monica & the other affairs, the Clinton Foundation's shady deals, Hillary's decades worth of flip flopping quotes on policy, Hillary's email scandal, etc.

The worst they can do with Bernie is call him a socialist, which isn't even considered a bad thing anymore lol. Far more independents and right wingers like or can tolerate Bernie over Hillary.

Nope the worst thing we cando is call him a communist which is what he really is. ☺️

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Sillyolme

She's being investigated by the FBI and that alone should disqualify anyone.

Apparently not everybody agrees. Here she is. Not disqualified.

The fact that this topic is even being discussed is proof of what a complete waste of time it is to vote at all.

The electoral college will not go with Trump.

Trump is just a Chump.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: MEDIKATED
I hope Bernie beats her, but Bernie cant beat Trump, I don't care what polls say. Bernie hasn't had any negative ads yet, if Bernie beats Hillary prepare for an onslaught of negative ads and Bernie goes way down, I still hope Bernie beats her.

Do you really think the anti-Bernie ads would be worse than the anti-Clinton ads? The right wing has hated the Clintons for decades. Literally. Did you forget they impeached Bill when he was the President? And they've had an ongoing 4 year witch trial over the Benghazi attacks w/Hillary. Not to mention every other thing they can bring up about the Clintons, like Monica & the other affairs, the Clinton Foundation's shady deals, Hillary's decades worth of flip flopping quotes on policy, Hillary's email scandal, etc.

The worst they can do with Bernie is call him a socialist, which isn't even considered a bad thing anymore lol. Far more independents and right wingers like or can tolerate Bernie over Hillary.

Nope the worst thing we cando is call him a communist which is what he really is. ☺️

Maybe that works with the right wing old timers who were indoctrinated w/the "Red Scare" during the Cold War. But millennials and other demographics don't see that as a threat because we know it isn't true. Plus we have this beautiful thing called "google" which allows us to search for things like "communism vs socialism" to see the obvious differences.

And of course, we can also just read "Das Kapital" & "The Communist Manifesto", then compare those policies to Bernie's proposed policies. And we can look into the already existing socialist programs in America and other wealthy countries, to see that they are not "communist" at all. Then we can look into "Democratic Socialism" and see what it is and what it isn't, then decide for ourselves if we support it or not.

In other words, lying and smearing an opponent with baseless fearmongering labels doesn't work anymore since it can be instantly fact checked. But yeah, try that "commie" thing anyway lol.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Maybe that works with the right wing old timers who were indoctrinated w/the "Red Scare" during the Cold War. But millennials and other demographics don't see that as a threat because we know it isn't true. Plus we have this beautiful thing called "google" which allows us to search for things like "communism vs socialism" to see the obvious differences.

Just to bump your very astute statement here. ^^

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Democratic socialism is new to me with Bernie. I can't help but think it's probably new to most Americans, too -- even Bernie supporters. In trying to familiarize myself with it, my biggest apprehensions come from the spending and power our corrupt Congress would have, primarily; but also the connection to the Fabian socialist movement -- which is the socialism of the elite-Elite, like the Bilderbergs.

I don't mean to conflate Democratic Socialism to something it's not, but since it's a new ideology to see in a serious contender for the presidency -- I don't feel exactly guilty for my skepticism. The rest of the federal government hasn't inspired confidence in me to think they aren't setting me/us up for a serious power/money grab.

I absolutely support the most accessible education/job training system in the world though. Bernie's policies on education are stellar. I like them because they substantively contribute a goal of educating and job training people so that they are at their best to compete in a free-market, capitalist society. If Bernie's domestic/social policies were singularly focused on education, at this point, I'd be more inclined to defend/support him.

If we could spend a decade focused on making education/job training free and accessible -- then see where we are at -- I would feel better about tackling other problems that exist to contribute to class-inequality.

I suspect many problems would significantly resolve themselves if we had a populace able to seriously compete in a capitalist economy with the wealthy.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

*****************



Seriously, don't you ever get tired of spewing lies? Does it ever occur to you to get with the present day situations?

Or not? I'm thinking not. Agenda 21 is here - and you are still alive. See? You are still alive, and allowed to say whatever tripe comes to your head.....
you've been corrected and provided with sources that debunk your stubborn opinion hundreds (if not thousands) of times.
The only thing really left to recognize is this: you are summarily and perpetually unable to absorb new info.

I get it.
Good luck with your hysterical affectation(s) (based on nothing going on in real life).

a reply to: MotherMayEye

It's okay - it's new to a lot of people.
It isn't poison - it isn't even contagious (obviously)....

it's just a way to make sure that capitalism can continue AND ALSO PROVIDE a secure social safety net.


Millions Now Understand That Capitalism Needs Socialism to Work—Which Is Why Bernie Is So Popular

Real life ^^

Thank you for being open to new ideas, Mother - I've truly enjoyed our exchanges here on ATS.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Maybe that works with the right wing old timers who were indoctrinated w/the "Red Scare" during the Cold War. But millennials and other demographics don't see that as a threat because we know it isn't true. Plus we have this beautiful thing called "google" which allows us to search for things like "communism vs socialism" to see the obvious differences.

Just to bump your very astute statement here. ^^

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
I think capitalism definitely needs a socialist-treated education/job training system to succeed...and then some. If we all started out on an even playing field, that would be a different matter. But we need to get people on a more even playing field and then analyze how well our capitalist/socialist system is functioning.

As it stands, with wealth inequality what it is, those born wealthy and privileged are always poised to succeed at the expense of the poor. And let's face it, this won't ever lead to excellence. It leads to generations of families trapped in a cycle of dependence on the government and unable to compete.

Excellence can best be achieved when we make good use of every available mind by giving everyone the tools to contribute at their greatest potential. Wealth inequality and class oppression don't just affect the ability to pay for education/job training, it effects the opportunities to learn and thrive on every level and the ability to feel confident enough to succeed.

If I am honest with myself, my ideal would be to see complete equality and accessibility in education/job training in an otherwise largely-capitalist market. I say "largely" because capitalism is a system based on competition and, therefore, it requires winners & losers. If we want to make capitalism work, then we have to consider the quality of lives the 'losers,' and make sure a poor quality of life doesn't stunt the ability or hope to become economically competitive and raise economically competitive families.

In the end, I believe capitalism inspires excellence and socialism doesn't offer that same inspiration. I don't think we should pass up the benefit of excellence that capitalism offers.

Bernie touches greatly on what matters to me. But, I'm not ready to tackle other problems he wants to tackle until equal access to education/job training is tackled first and has a decade to start producing substantive results for analysis.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

In the end, I believe capitalism inspires excellence and socialism doesn't offer that same inspiration. I don't think we should pass up the benefit of excellence that capitalism offers.

What?

Of course Bernie's suggestions offer inspiration toward excellence!
How on earth does providing an education and ensuring good health care "kill" inspiration? I think that is ridiculous, although I appreciate your candor.

So - you're okay, then, with youths who try but don't succeed at various trades to starve? To be homeless?
What about soldiers who have come home, but didn't kill enough 'enemy combatants' to deserve health care?

Socialism as the Northern European countries practice it, and as Bernie suggests it, TOTALLY rewards hard work. It completely recognizes extraordinary and exceptional talent. It's just that the people who aren't geniuses or business owners or retained, pay-rolled :employees" (servants?) still get to eat and have a roof overhead.

I don't comprehend how anyone can begrudge the least successful a liveable situation.

But then again - I'm a commie, lily-livered, bleeding-heart egghead. As we all know.

Those that "have" won't give willingly as long as the "evil" government even hints at the possibility that it would be humane (let alone decent and moral) to do so. No way, no how, not gonna happen.

Those that "have not" will forever struggle due to that unpleasant truth. It will never end.

That is the human condition. That is the totally of modern politics and the shameful truth about this society and the world at large.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Winner !

Nicely put... and i agree with your post 100%.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
So - you're okay, then, with youths who try but don't succeed at various trades to starve? To be homeless?
What about soldiers who have come home, but didn't kill enough 'enemy combatants' to deserve health care?

..I don't comprehend how anyone can begrudge the least successful a liveable situation.

Wait. No, that's not at all what i said. I thought I was saying the opposite when I wrote this:

If I am honest with myself, my ideal would be to see complete equality and accessibility in education/job training in an otherwise largely-capitalist market. I say "largely" because capitalism is a system based on competition and, therefore, it requires winners & losers. If we want to make capitalism work, then we have to consider the quality of lives the 'losers,' and make sure a poor quality of life doesn't stunt the ability or hope to become economically competitive and raise economically competitive families.

I have a great appreciation for those who find themselves on the 'losing' end of capitalism. They are just as vital to the free-market system as the 'winners.' You cannot have competition without 'losers.'

That's why I said their quality of life should not be so effected that it keeps them from success, hope of success, or raising successful families.


(ETA: I don't think you understood what I said. I know I am long-winded, by my comment was more thoughtful and sensitive than what you took away from it.)

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I think I get what you're saying. You agree with socialism's safety net while wanting capitalism's risk/reward opportunities?

ETA: I think you & Buzzy are actually in agreement on that.

originally posted by: thinline
If one believes when Bernie says that politicians are bought and sold and that he is different. Why would then bought and sold super delegates support someone that is going to open the curtain on their dirt? So either Bernie is lying about the role of money in politics or he is already bought, or is willing to be bought once in office.

That makes sense, except for one thing. If hillary is bought and paid for and loses, then the people who bought and paid for her got nothing for their money. It would be more in their best interests to at least get their party in the White House, even if it wasn't their first choice for a candidate, than lose altogether. Super delegates switching to Bernie is probably their best bet all around.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I think I get what you're saying. You agree with socialism's safety net while wanting capitalism's risk/reward opportunities?

Yes, exactly, enlightened servant. Exactly.