If reincarnation is not true, then Elijah did not return before the Christ as prophesized

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Parazurvan

seek and ye shall find you find not because you seek not.

There are hundreds I find it strange you have not found even one.

I have found All.

a reply to: Parazurvan

If you have found all, why is it then you have not found fellowships or churches that teach right division and the separation the gospel of the Kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God?

a reply to: Parazurvan
Because you have said that Paul epistles are "angry epistles on how everyone hated him" it tells me you have never read them. You couldn't get that even from a casual reading of them. I can only surmise you have been spoon fed poison from internet trolls and you tubers and have not done your own study of Scriptures.

Just to show you grace I will link some sites for you from men and churches that rightly divide the word of Truth and the gospels. I do not agree with all their teachings but you can learn about right division and see how the gospel of the kingdom is different from the Gospel of the grace of God.

But you need to search the scriptures and see what they teach is true, and that will require you to read and reread the Bible over and over for the next few years just to get so familiar with it that truths of right division will begin to manifest unto you by the Spirit of our God and Father unto all wisdom and knowledge of his word.

This will take more than just a casual judgemental reading of the Bible but a day by day reading and studying. this is where many fail and resort to youtubers and blogs sites rather than going to a church that rightly divides.

The links are from different sources so enjoy them. these links will be about the differences between Israel kingdom and the body of Christ, some are about the ABC's of right division, some are Christian men who they themselves have found the truth of rightly dividing the word of Truth. and I added one on the preservation of the word of God.

Please enjoy and note not one of my posts here or in any other thread has been in anger, malice or hatred to say so is a lie.

rightdivision.com...
www.matthewmcgee.org...
right-division.com...
precepts.wordpress.com...
chettesblog.wordpress.com...
libertythrugrace.com...
right-division.com...

BTW, there are Baptist churches and non-denominational churches all around you just about anywhere in the word that teach rightly dividing. If you had truly looked you would have found them.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

you need to take all the NT scriptures into account and not just pick one.

No I don't, not when it comes to your wanky divided gospels theory or to respecting the supposed words of Jesus the Nazarene over Paul's supposed groupie Luke, and his 3rd hand rendition of what they wanted to teach.

But what is clear John the Baptist did come in the Power and Spirit of Elijah (Elias) as it was told John's father Luke 1:17

John the Baptist's father died when he was a baby. Luke never talked to him or Elizabeth.

Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD.

For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

the lord verified that John did come in that spirit to turn the hearts of the people but John was not a re-incarnation of Elijah. Like Jesus is the incarnation of God, John was the incarnation of Elijah.

Wrong. To parrot your own faulty argument; "How could God be in heaven being prayed to by Jesus while Jesus was the incarnation of God?" At any rate, according to Jesus, John the Baptist was Elijah, in the flesh, reincarnated.

Elijah did not die and therefore cannot be reincarnated.

Elijah had to have shed his earthy body, traditionally, because we all know that flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

John 3:3
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

Here are some more interesting sites I know Will personally and find a lot of his articles thought provoking. Though I am not a KJV Only, Will is, but his studies are a good lesson in right division. I have searched the scriptures while reading them to see if what he teaches is true. I find in most cases I agree with him. we have about 1% in differences

brandplucked.webs.com...
brandplucked.webs.com...
brandplucked.webs.com...
brandplucked.webs.com...

a reply to: windword

Luke was one of the witnesses of Christ's earthly ministry just because you don't want to accept that doesn't make you correct and his gospel or the book of Acts irrelevant. His Gospel Book and the book of Acts were written to his friend Theophilus, they are accurate and they were not written to promote Paul but to promote Jesus Christ.

Luke 1:1-4 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 1:1-4 ¶ The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: to whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

BS! Luke never met John the Baptist, his father, his mother or Jesus the Nazarene!

John the Baptist, according to scripture and legend, WAS the reincarnation of Elijah. You can't have Jesus Christ without the reincarnation of Elijah through John the Baptist.

a reply to: windword

Windy, why do you care. you believe the Bible is ALL allegory anyway. So why get yourself all up in a lather over something you don't believe anyhow.

Just like the cross proofs given you reject without study.

Anything not to believe.

You really need to find a hobby.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Windy, why do you care.

I believe in reincarnation, and that the BIble backs up its truth. I believe the story of Jesus of Nazareth, "The Christ", is the allegorical story of humanity. We all willingly left the side of "God" to experience "creation", only to die and be reborn, time after time. We are all spiritual beings having a temporary physical experience.

a reply to: windword

You can't have it both ways. If Christ is an allegory then he was only just a lesson plan for life. There would be no need for a resurrection if men were to just learn a lesson from his life.

You show you believe man can save himself.

Good luck with that you will need it.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

If Christ is an allegory

I didn't say that "Christ" was an allegory. I said the story of the Jesus the Nazarene, who Christians say is "The Christ", (but isn't) is an allegory for the human condition, just as Isiah's "Suffering Servant" was allegorical for the plight of the Nation of Israel.

Christ, as a guiding "oversoul" that is embodied as the spirit of mankind in all of humanity, is a concept that I don't really have a problem with. It's the Christian idea that Jesus was the one and only embodiment of their ambiguous concept of "Christ", and that his mortal death is our salvation, that I have a problem with.

You show you believe man can save himself.

And you believe that you're saved by the death on one man.

a reply to: windword

Wind, look you said on another post that the Bible is ALL allegories. so to you if Jesus is real he was no saviour of men. because that is all allegory, death and resurrection is all allegory, born again or born of the spirit is all allegory. Revelation is all allegory, the gospels are all allegory. Paul's writing are false and if anything in them is any thing they are allegory.

Genesis to revelation is all allegory you already said the Bible is all allegory there is no backing out of that now.

If Christ is an allegory he cannot be a "guiding oversoul". Because that would be something literal but you just claimed he is not the Christ. So that leaves the christ being an allegory.

I am forgiven of sin by his death, and justified by his resurrection, his death was substitutionary so I don't have to die even if my body dies. My Salvation is by grace alone through faith, not of myself lest I should boast. God is my salvation and Jesus Christ was the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

If Christ is an allegory he cannot be a "guiding oversoul". Because that would be something literal but you just claimed he is not the Christ. So that leaves the christ being an allegory.

You still don't understand. The STORY of Jesus is allegorical. It represents the human experience of each individual's literal "journey of the (literal) soul", through "The Son of Man", an allegorical promise of generational renewal, which is literal.

"The Christ", which is the archetypal personification of the concept of humanity's perfect evolutionary realization, (evolving generationally through time), through individual human experience.

Jesus was no more "The Christ" than you or me or any other member of the human race. The "cross" itself is a symbol of the promise of reincarnation, and us going in and out of the door, in order to become Christ; doing The Great Work.



The Eye of The Needle........You need to dump your load before going through, though, because you can't take it with you!

a reply to: windword

I am sorry but the History of Jesus is set forth for the salvation of mankind plain and simple. It is the simplicity that is Christ Jesus.

God did not hide lesson in allegorical form so the the simple could not learn it and had to trust a priest or scholar to teach them. because those types of men are usually doing for themselves.

Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

God's word makes the simple wise and it give understanding to them as well.

Ps 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple.
Ps 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

which means it is very easy to understand in 6th grade English like it is found in the AV.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

.....it is very easy to understand in 6th grade English......

Very simple to understand indeed!

And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

a reply to: windword

but the context on what is told Zacharias the father of John the baptist must be kept in mine. if you fail to then you can create reincarnation and not just have the same spirit as Elias Which is what really took place. that is why Christ said "IF you can receive it".

the other verse that the spirit and where it goes you have completely out of context and deserves no comment. Because it speaks of the Holy Spirit not just any mans spirit or the spirit of Elijah.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

"Spirit" and "soul" are the same. You are not your body. You are a spiritual being, a soul, having a physical experience. The spiritual being, who during a certain incarnation was called Elijah, returned and incarnated as John the Baptist....If you can receive it.

The citation quoted as the words of Jesus should clear up and trump any misunderstanding or controversy in the matter. After all, he actually knew John the Baptist and his family, while Luke did not.

And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

a reply to: windword

you need to study more spirit and soul are not the same. Spirit is the life force of the person, the, the Soul is the person.

That is why in Genesis God said he breathed into Adam and he became a living Soul.

John came in the Spirit of Elias but his person was that of John.

Again you have that verse with out comparison with all the others and the testimony of the Angel Gabriel, who cannot lie, that he would come in t he Spirit of Elais, and commanded that his name be called John. Not to mention the old testament prophecies of which John also fulfilled as being John and Not Elias.

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

But hey, how do you know it is not an Allegory?

Like that where the church is liken to Sarah and Israel liken to Hagar, John is liken to Elias.

And even if he is Elias then the prophecy is only partially fulfilled and that in lay difficulty in itself. Because the fullfillment will be during the Great Tribulation. We will just have to wait and see. I will be watching from above and you will be watching on TV when that time comes.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

you need to study more spirit and soul are not the same. Spirit is the life force of the person, the, the Soul is the person. That is why in Genesis God said he breathed into Adam and he became a living Soul.

Are you insinuating that when a person stops breathing their soul dies? ?????

What you're trying to tell me, it seems to me, is that John the Baptist was not the same spirit that occupied the body of Elijah, but he was a memory of his "spirit and power". That just doesn't cut it when it comes to fulfilling Malichi's prophecy of sending Elijah, to pave the way, to do a very important job.

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

...Not a memory of Elijah's spirit and power, as if he was a race horse, but the actual spirit that inhabited the body of Elijah and inherited its power.

a reply to: windword

"Spirit" and "soul" are the same. You are not your body. You are a spiritual being, a soul, having a physical experience. The spiritual being, who during a certain incarnation was called Elijah, returned and incarnated as John the Baptist....If you can receive it.

I believe you have a different concept of Christianity than does ChesterJohn. The Torah tells us that when God created Adam that Adam was a dead soul. Adam was a terrestrial lifeless soul. God then breathed the Spirit of life into Adam's dead soul and Adam then became a living soul or a soul with a spirit of life. At this point the spirit is the celestial life of the terrestrial soul.

John Baptist is not Elijah
KJV bible John 1:19-23
(19) And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? (20) And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. (21) And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. (22) Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? (23) He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

I am not saying that there were not Jews who believed in reincarnation but what I am saying is that neither Jesus nor James taught reincarnation.