Charlotte Observer: Girls must overcome ‘discomfort’ of seeing ‘male genitalia’ in locker ro

originally posted by: halfoldman
a reply to: Gryphon66

Because I'm a member of ATS, and have a right to speak from my scenario.

Sometimes I think it's only relevant to my country, but at other instances I think it's relevant generally.

I let my fellow ATS members decide.

But that's me, and I'm a member.

To be fair - - America has had to evolve to get to this point.

Other countries are more evolved then America when it comes to LGBT.

I don't know SA - - seems there is a lot of civil war going on. Probably not the best time to introduce a controversial Equal Rights situation.

However, Separate, but Equal didn't work here in America. That's kind of what you are suggesting giving Transgender (LGBT) their own facilities.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I don't find the topic extraordinary; however I do find some of the extraordinary demands all of a sudden quite perplexing.

Actually yes, with progressive countries we can go into a new future, although progressive countries don't always mean progressive communities.

Nobody, in any country is going to wave a magic wand and make trans-people magically acceptable.

So, I'm discussing things with my fellow members.

a reply to: halfoldman

Two US States recently passed laws restricting public facility use to the "birth sex."

The Obama Administration wrote a letter clarifying policy on the enforcement of several laws regarding sex discrimination.

Trans* rights have been an on-going issue since the 1950s at least.

Nobody is talking about "magic wands" ... we're talking about American legal standards; and the hyperbole is unnecessary.

I'm not trying to keep you from discussing anything, but what's happening in other countries, or what someone thinks about which countries in the world would "accept" the rights of Trans* folks ... just isn't the issue at hand.

That's my only point.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I know very well the debate has been going on a long time.
Long before I was even born.
And it wasn't always a liberating or "good" discourse.
Some regimes also forced people to become trans, for example the old apartheid military, or currently still Iran.
Not to hurt true trans people, but this deserves some caution.

I think most people would have understood my "magic wand" imagery as a metaphor for not finding instant solutions.

To think this can simply be legalistically imposed on communities is a pipe dream.

But I dared to question some things, so I guess I'm silenced and shot-down already.
Have fun, and good luck.

a reply to: halfoldman

To think this can simply be legalistically imposed on communities is a pipe dream.

Huh. Being from South Africa that is an interesting position.
Was not apartheid legalistically imposed? And removed?

a reply to: Phage

Yeah, and it died legalistically in 1994.

a reply to: halfoldman

Yes. Yes it did.
It was put in place and removed "legalistically." I guess I'm missing your point.

a reply to: halfoldman

You're not shut down by little ol' me ... I actually just wanted to make sure you were clear on the topic.

Please post at will. I promise I'll ignore what you say.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Good.
We have a mutual understanding then.

a reply to: halfoldman

Pity we can't have a locker-room and just ignore each other too.
I swear, I wouldn't even know what you looked like.


Now there's a good solution.
Get everybody so angry they won't even look at each other- ever!
That's what's happening, and I think it's a pity.

Ok, so what's the difference between a flasher in the bathroom/locker room vs. outside of those facilities? Public indecency is next on the list.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
Ok, so what's the difference between a flasher in the bathroom/locker room vs. outside of those facilities? Public indecency is next on the list.

None. Indecent exposure is still against the law.
statelaws.findlaw.com...

I dunno.

It all sounds very clinical to me.

And LGBT people have every right to mistrust that discourse.

Include people by drawing boxed curtains around them, like a hospital, or an old age home?

Have these contraptions in a locker-room, where you want team spirit, and a bit of fun.
Just don't pee in the shower.

I'm not convinced it's really empowering, or makes for a normal youth in any sense.
It's actually some of the most discriminatory stuff I've ever heard.

But each to their own opinion.

I think there's also a little bit of misandry.

As if, especially groups of men won't tolerate gays or transsexuals.

The myth of pervasive and only "toxic" masculinity.

Look there are homophobes out there, but that goes for school and wider society.

But there were also people who accepted LGBT people, and defended us.

You can shower with us and put on your war-paint afterwards.
What's the big deal?

You don't need a curtain, or a special bathroom or parents interfering sometimes.
Just have a normal youth.

But no, men can never be trusted with anything.
It makes me wonder how they ever get married.

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: Dfairlite
Ok, so what's the difference between a flasher in the bathroom/locker room vs. outside of those facilities? Public indecency is next on the list.

None. Indecent exposure is still against the law.
statelaws.findlaw.com...

That law is pretty discriminatory and should probably be challenged in the courts.

a reply to: awareness10

I don't want to see anyone's genitals in the bathroom. Nobody is going to be pissing in the sink and cubicle doors should be CLOSED.

The fact of the matter is that trans people have to go to the bathroom somewhere and nobody is going to want to pay for new bathrooms to be built just for them. What do you expect them to piss behind a bush?

If I had a trans girl as a daughter I would not want her going into the mens bathroom, not in school, not anywhere.

Also, nobody goes to the bathroom to find a date for friday night. They go there to do their business. Let them do it in peace. They have been doing it perfectly fine so far..]

Using this as a political football does not help the issue. Let it die.

a reply to: Dfairlite

So now laws protecting children are discriminatory?

Should exposure not be a crime now?

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Dfairlite

So now laws protecting children are discriminatory?

Should exposure not be a crime now?

There are thousands of transgender kids in public school.

What about them?

a reply to: Annee

are they not protected by the same laws?

originally posted by: LilFox
a reply to: awareness10

[white]I don't want to see anyone's genitals in the bathroom. Nobody is going to be pissing in the sink and cubicle doors should be CLOSED. The fact of the matter is that trans people have to go to the bathroom somewhere and nobody is going to want to pay for new bathrooms to be built just for them. What do you expect them to piss behind a bush?[/white]

Why can't they do what they've always done? Simple.

If I had a trans girl as a daughter I would not want her going into the mens bathroom, not in school, not anywhere.

The same as people with straight daughters who's parents don't want men going piss in any bathroom with them regardless of the Institution they're in or otherwise.

Using this as a political football does not help the issue. Let it die.

I agree Obama and high towers like him shouldn't be using this Politically. People are clearly upset about him trying to use his powers to force this upon the People or else is a bit Stalin like. He knew there would be a push back from the majority of non snowflakes that's fairly obvious.

edit on 5/23/2016 by awareness10 because: (no reason given)