Times LDEO collapse seismogram of WTC-7, compared to the by NIST time-stamped Cianca 9/11 photo

a reply to: Informer1958

Everything I reference is on the government payroll? You can say the same about conspiracists being on the conspiracy money milking cash cow. Book deals. Publicity.


And there it is. Can't debunk my referenced scientists and their research, so they are all lying and part of the conspiracy. So the 10s of thousands of scientists, firefighters, seismologists, engineerings, demolitions experts, and chemists have credible research proving collapse due to only fire damage, but your 10 persons of science are right? I will go with the 10s of thousands that research fire collapse with the goal of making buildings safer than the 10 or 20 conspiring to make a buck of the gullible.

a reply to: Informer1958

Again, how many times have I referenced a NIST report?

a reply to: Informer1958

And please site references and sources why and how the LEDO scientists are lying the WTC only created R waves and the seismic data shows no detonation of charges.

a reply to: neutronflux

And there it is. Can't debunk my referenced scientists and their research, so they are all lying and part of the conspiracy. So the 10s of thousands of scientists, firefighters, seismologists, engineerings, demolitions experts, and chemists have credible research proving collapse due to only fire damage, but your 10 persons of science are right? I will go with the 10s of thousands that research fire collapse with the goal of making buildings safer than the 10 or 20 conspiring to make a buck of the gullible.

Again, you are speaking for only those who are on the government payroll, am I correct?

The fact is, there are hundreds of eyewitness including Firemen, seismologists, Engineers, demolition experts, chemists that tells a very different story and it does not support the official narratives of 911, are you making the claim that all these people are lairs?

You can say the same about conspiracists being on the conspiracy money milking cash cow. Book deals. Publicity.

Perhaps few are, however are you making the claim that all conspiracy theories are all lies just for people to make money?

Are you suggesting there is no corruption in our government? Talk about being gullible.

And please site references and sources why and how the LEDO scientists are lying the WTC only created R waves and the seismic data shows no detonation of charges.

What???

Go to the OP your answer is in the very first page. Apparently, you have not even bothered to read the OP.

a reply to: Informer1958

And I referenced numerous scientific sources and research why this thread's lead conclusion is misleading and wrong.

You conspiracy on explosives at the WTC relies that a majority of persons recovering bodies, local bomb squads, local cops (town, city, state), local firefighters, insurance companies, private engineering firms, universities, foreigner universities, skeptics, private architecture firms, airport personnel, NORAD, and WTC bomb sniffing dogs are part of the conspiracy and accessories to murder. Many who are doing their jobs to understand the true mechanism of collapse to make better buildings?

Going to tell how the LEDO scientists are wrong in their statement their data is taken out of context, misrepresented, and their seismic data holds no proof of detonated explosives.

a reply to: Informer1958

One last thing. No physical evidence of bomb fragments, blasting caps fragments, fragments of shape charges, no columns drilled for explosives, audio of explosives detonating, fragments of a ignition system. No columns worked on by explosives. Yet, recovery and search of debris thorough enough to collect 20,000 remains and ID persons by DNA. No physical evidence of detonated explosives debunks thus thread alone.

a reply to: neutronflux

You conspiracy on explosives at the WTC relies that a majority of persons recovering bodies, local bomb squads, local cops (town, city, state), local firefighters, insurance companies, private engineering firms, universities, foreigner universities, skeptics, private architecture firms, airport personnel, NORAD, and WTC bomb sniffing dogs are part of the conspiracy and accessories to murder. Many who are doing their jobs to understand the true mechanism of collapse to make better buildings?

Pulling on my heart strings. Yes, lets just lump ever single person was in on the need to know?

One last thing. No physical evidence of bomb fragments, blasting caps fragments, fragments of shape charges, no columns drilled for explosives, audio of explosives detonating, fragments of a ignition system. No columns worked on by explosives. Yet, recovery and search of debris thorough enough to collect 20,000 remains and ID persons by DNA. No physical evidence of detonated explosives debunks thus thread alone.

And this delights you?

In the clean up process was anyone required to look for any of this evidence? No I didn't think so. So that should answered your questions, shouldn't it?

So what you are saying "again," any evidence that goes against the official narratives of the government 911 story should all be ignored?

George Bush said in one of his famous speeches " Lets not Liston to conspiracy theories concerning 911" " You are for us or against us".

Meaning also, please do not use your brain and think, no critical thinking allowed no logical thinking allowed, and please by all means, leave your years of education at the door when it comes to the government stories of 911.

Do you support what I have stated above?

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: neutronflux

In the clean up process was anyone required to look for any of this evidence? No I didn't think so. So that should answered your questions, shouldn't it

And what does it say about a person saying those recovering remains, the investigating specialist (bomb experts, cops, firefighters, structural engineers) going through the debris for physical evidence are accessories to murder. The personnel that worked to understand the true nature of the building collapse for better buildings are accessories to murder?

And yes, there were people looking for evidence at the WTC site and the WTC debris collection sites. Need to look at the real information. Not the sensationalized bits of information taken out of context to make a popular YouTube video.

Video of WTC steel. Notice columns marked saved.
m.youtube.com... notice the view counts. I would think ever conspiracists would have watched this.

What I find ironic, the closest thing to a conspiracy was the EPA air samples. How did that cover-up work out? How much did the government pay out in wrongful deaths. More should have been done, but billions paid out for wrongful death due to the botched EPA air samples.

www.cbsnews.com...

Yet, it's never referenced among conspiracists?

The government couldn't even hide the botched air samples, but can hide WTC controlled demo.

Think of the money lawyers could make in wrongful deaths if controlled demo by the government could be proved for any WTC buildings.

Think of the payday the insurance companies that paid out because of 911would have?

You use your common sense.

a reply to: neutronflux

I know it's hards to believe because you are used to the sensationalized YouTube videos which are the producers opinion.

Video of WTC steel. Notice columns marked saved.
m.youtube.com... notice the view counts. I would think ever conspiracists would have watched this.

You certainly know how to contradict yourself, wow! Here you demonstrated to every ATS reader that YouTube videos are sensationalized by the producer "opinions", yet you yourself have no problems using YouTube? Interestingly you asked me what I think about your YouTube video?

I am not here to give my "opinions" it's that simple, nor do I ever claim my "opinions are facts. That's not how one debates a topic is it?

a reply to: neutronflux

What I find ironic, the closest thing to a conspiracy was the EPA air samples. How did that cover-up work out? How much did the government pay out in wrongful deaths. More should have been done, but billions paid out for wrongful death due to the botched EPA air samples.

www.cbsnews.com...

Yet, it's never referenced among conspiracists?

You need to do a ATS search on that topic, I have seen threads done on this several times in the years. Again "assuming" to know what conspiracies theorist have discussed in the past concerning 911.

To prove you wrong, and it is not my "opinion".

Here is just one thread I found right away.

Hundreds of 9/11 first responders die of cancer...

a reply to: Informer1958

The point is, the EPA was brought to light cause it's true. What does that say about controlled demolition. It's false.

And how was the video I referenced with 3000 views of documented WTC steel inspection an over produced sensationalized video trying to generate revenue based on likes? It's sad, but truth does not generate revenue like a good conspiracy.

a reply to: neutronflux

Yet, it's never referenced among conspiracists?

I see you have now changed your "opinions" to what I just proof to you.

See every day it's nice to learn new things, don't you agree?

a reply to: Informer1958

Recap. You will not answer how LEDO is wrong in saying their seismic data is taken out of context, misused, and showed no proof of seismic activity due to detonation of bombs.

I referenced work of persons from many different science disciplines that agree on collapse triggered by fire. Many models, papers, reports from private and universities throughout the world. 10s of thousands of scientists from different countries agree on fire. But you claim they are lies and part of the conspiracy, that is an uneducated opinion by you.

And you have one or two magnitudes less of persons believing the government used some means to destroy the WTC buildings. And those persons cannot agree on explosives, thermite, nuclear bombs, missiles, drone jets, lasers, or dustification.
Many who use unethical means and pseudoscience to create papers and books, and generate their livelihood off conspiracists.

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: neutronflux

You need to do a ATS search on that topic, I have seen threads done on this several times in the years. Again "assuming" to know what conspiracies theorist have discussed in the past concerning 911.

To prove you wrong, and it is not my "opinion".

Here is just one thread I found right away.

Hundreds of 9/11 first responders die of cancer...

"Hundreds of 9/11 first responders die of cancer..."

I was addressing the specific issue of EPA air samples, and why the dangers were not adequately addressed / reported. Why a government that is seen murdering 3000 by conspiracists would even let the EPA negligence come to light, go to court, and then make restitution for wrongfully deaths. This contradicts the narrative of an all controlling government that would murder to cover up its misdeeds. Controls all government and university studies to hide all injustice. Especially when it cost the government billions.

I think the only air samples collected in lower Manhattan were collected by the DELTA Group from California, and they did not get on scene until a week or 10 days after the event. Thomas Cahill was running that sampling.

That sampling showed the air quality to be very much like the air coming out of an industrial smoke stack, with iron microspheres and other toxins present.

Ms. Todd-Whitman of EPA had told the public the air was just fine to breathe. Is that misfeasance in office, or malfeasance?

Sorry, I am rude to digress from thread. The EPA asked USGS to sample two days after 911. I guess it's because the EPA is strictly oversight? (Like OSHA dose not do noise studies at a plant. But insures by records the employer is doing the proper noise studies.) Not sure why the EPA didn't sample themselves? The air samples started on the 16th. When the guys could get the first commercial flight.
Just FYI
pubs.usgs.gov...


Sorry, first samples on the evening of the 17th.

a reply to: Informer1958

In the clean up process was anyone required to look for any of this evidence? No I didn't think so. So that should answered your questions, shouldn't it?

Every piece of debris from the site was shipped to Fresh Kills in Staten Island where it was sorted, That was after preliminary sorting at WTC.

Here was sorted into various categories - vehicles, structural steel, small items, etc

The small items were put on conveyor belt and screened 3 times by police detectives for following categories:
human remains, personal effects and evidence

I'll take whats behind Door #3 aka evidence.......

Following video goes into detail of the sorting process

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: firerescue

Thank you for the link. A little bit of truth and perspective with under 3000 views. Sad it gets overlooked because it doesn't fit an agenda. I am bais, but I truly believe from the quality of persons I served with, they would have exposed any of the plots to destroy the WTC outlined by conspiracists. I believe it to be more true for any local firefighters or law enforcement that lost family or fellow members of service.

a reply to: Informer1958

You need to do a ATS search on that topic, I have seen threads done on this several times in the years.

Since when is ATS evidence?