EgyptAir flight from Paris to Cairo has vanished from Radar

a reply to: Zaphod58

Further, Flight number has nothing to do with tail number, and tail number has nothing to do with serial number. They are all different.

Flight number can loosely correspond to a route, but is airline specific and has nothing to do with en-route airway number which is different still. Different airlines use completely different flight numbers for the same route with the same airway number.

Tail numbers, first of all, are the number registered with the FAA / ICAO / IATA, etc. They are usually a code made up of an aircraft type and a livery inventory number or hull number followed by the two letter airline specifuc code. Tail numbers don't change unless there is a new owner.

originally posted by: EnhancedInterrogator
a reply to: WeSbO

Although, I would think that terrorists would want the opposite - not a mystery, but an obvious and immediately horrific event.

I agree and disagree, i'm on the fence with that, as creating doubt can be also effective in scaring someone, but then again even a confirmed terrorist attack creates doubt in the fact that you know it's going to happen but you don't know when nor where. I guess that would depend on the thought process of the person/people carrying out a terrorist attack.

a reply to: WeSbO

they seem to be in agreement on the stuff found....not from the plane

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: WeSbO

they seem to be in agreement on the stuff found....not from the plane

this is like MH370 all over again. I feel like I can't believe anything I hear anymore.

a reply to: TheGoondockSaint

It's been less than 24 hours. The AirAsia flight that crashed in December of 2014, despite having a really good idea of where it crashed, took a week to find the wreckage.

The numbers used in commercial flight planning are the airline specific "flight number".

Yes, the tail number also shows up in a flight plan, but only to tie the airframe to the flight plan, and is not used in ATC comms.

According to Airbus the aircraft had 48,000 hours on it, but no word on cycles. The original lifespan of the A320 was 48,000 cycles/60,000 hours. That was increased in 2010 after a full fatigue study, but would have required replacement of some parts of the aircraft. The new lifecycle, after that was set at 60,000 cycles/120,000 hours with some aircraft going as high as 180,000 hours.

originally posted by: EnhancedInterrogator
I will note one disturbing similarity between this event and MH370 ... both events start during or right after hand-off between two different air-traffic-control authorities. For MH370 it was Malaysia handing off and telling the flight to contact Vietnam. For MS804, it was the Greeks contacting the flight to give them the hand-off for the Egyptians.

What would be the significance of any hand over though?
I mean I guess you are talking about a remote hi-jacking, a lot of discussion has been about that in regard to MH370, and not just tittle tattle of the interweb. So there is Boeing's, "uninterruptible autopilot" patented in 2005, and intended to take over a plane completely by anti-terrorism sources, that some think could also be remotely hi-jacked by terorists themselves, perhaps either on or off the plane, and that the pilots would be out of the loop. So Boeing has this patent it seems, but how many aircraft have it..a bit of a stretch to say all, I don't know about that.
In this case however, this is an Airbus. I don't know if they have something similar of their own??

I must say though, the idea is a bit out there, I imagine that airlines would need to think long and hard for allowing such a system on their aircraft, if they have a choice that is.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Exactly. And it the Cycles that are a major determinant regarding lifespan. By their nature, A320/B737 have far more cycles per mile than bigger jets. They typically fly shorter regional routes meaning more take-off's and landings.

It's an imperfect analogy, but think "highway miles vs. City miles".

a reply to: WeSbO

Doubt and conjecture increases exposure, circulation and discussion. In other words, the more doubt the more people talk about it. When concrete conclusions start to be found people start to tune out. It's human nature in moder society.

The major networks do this all the time, they bait you so you'll tune in. "Major storms headed our way, stay tuned for the news up next!" Sound familiar?

Terror by nature isn't about the people they kill, it's about the people they paralyze with fear. The more people they can reach (by not stepping out of the shadows right away) the more they can paralyze. It's like the boogeyman under your bed; you're only afraid of it because you don't "know" if it's real or not.

They play with your mind.

Update BBC.

Search for missing flight continues
Posted at 22:31
Here's a summary of the latest developments, in case you're just joining us: Earlier on Thursday, EgyptAir said debris found floating on the Mediterranean Sea was from the missing flight But after a top Greek official disputed this, saying the wreckage found wasn't actually from the airliner, the company's vice president reportedly retracted that claim There has been no official statement on the wreckage from EgyptAir since Officials and experts say the plane is more likely to have been brought down by a terrorist act than a technical fault You can go through the latest here Here is what we know so far Share Share this post on Twitter Facebook Read more about these links. 'No signs of blast' at missing airplane
Posted at 22:19
A US review of satellite images has produced no signs of an explosion on board, Reuters news agency reports, quoting officials from multiple US agencies. The unnamed sources told Reuters that the US has not ruled out any possible causes for the crash, including mechanical failure, terrorism or a deliberate act by the pilot or crew. Many international governments are assisting in the search for the airplane.

www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: Leonidas
Also, I haven't seen anything online regarding whether or not there was refueling done in Paris, or if it had enough already on-board to finish it's route back to Cairo.

I am thinking along the lines of the vapor build-up in an empty (or near-empty) center fuel-tank that was (conspiracy theories aside) a contributing factor in the TWA-800 event - where (the official story is) that some faulty or exposed electrical component ignited that vapor.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

flying...you hit the nail on the head.......... hers an update

Though officials have said terrorism is the most likely cause of MS804’s disappearance and assumed crash, a US intelligence review have of satellite imagery has so far not shown evidence of an explosion, Reuters reports.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
According to Airbus the aircraft had 48,000 hours on it, but no word on cycles. The original lifespan of the A320 was 48,000 cycles/60,000 hours. That was increased in 2010 after a full fatigue study, but would have required replacement of some parts of the aircraft. The new lifecycle, after that was set at 60,000 cycles/120,000 hours with some aircraft going as high as 180,000 hours.

I had never really thought of this before but as someone who flies somewhat frequently to family halfway around the world, this makes me a little nervous when considering other stories of how careless the modern airline industry is with outsourcing maintenance to 3rd world countries.

Do airlines release the life cycles of all their planes so when buying tickets the public can make sure they aren't getting on a plane near or past its life cycle?

a reply to: MysticPearl

No. If you dig really hard on the internet you can get an idea of how far along in its lifecycle your plane is, especially if you can find the registration number before you board, but it's not generally given out.

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

We lost three KC-135s to that. They only figured it out on the ground when a group of ground crew guys were killed troubleshooting a fuel pump problem. One of them was found with his hand on the switch turning on the center fuel pump after the fire was put out.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I'm starting to think that info should be readily available.

With the outsourcing of maintenance to countries where there's little oversight, combined with some airlines squeezing every last flight out of the life cycle of planes, makes a frequent flier like myself nervous.

a reply to: skywatcher44


So basically, they don't know snit! All they know is the plane disappeared from radar.

Just the MSM wildly speculating about in order to sell advertising. Pretty much business as usual, wouldn't you say?

Go figure!!

a reply to: MysticPearl

Most airlines are going to be ok, as far as lifecycle goes. A large number of airlines have spent the last few years updating their fleets, and have their average age under 12, which generally puts the lifecycle at less than half of what it can be, for medium to long range aircraft. Some airlines on the other hand have a higher average age, as they've put off replacing aircraft. Some are still flying MD-88s.

a reply to: Zaphod58

In Australia we have had reports that the plane made some wild manoeuvers prior to going down,El Al aircraft can detect radar lock can Egypt air planes?