Transgendered children: should a parent be able to chemically alter a child's sex?

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
However we are talking about swapping trans kids.... Having to go to school with children is a far different animal!

Swapping a kid in grade school will ensure all of the negative social aspects previously mentioned. Taking your kid from being considered kinda weird, to totally different and and the center of gravity for every bully in the tri-state area.

What part of this do you just not understand? Many parents will move so that their kids can go to a new school where nobody knows their son or daughter is transgender. Kids can live completely in stealth and not be known or identified as transgender and completely fit in with the other kids. Another thing to be aware of is kids don't really give a crap about this - it is their parents that go all ballistic on the whole thing.

Would it really have been SOO devestating not to include your school in your personal life? Being yourself at home, while playing a role at school that allowed you complete your education?

This works sometimes for younger kids and many parents give this a try but it doesn't work for long because the mental gymnastics of living a split life, of having to be two different people with two different identities, one authentic and one pretend is pretty devastating. Can you really expect a teenager to do this or can you not imagine the emotional stress and other problems this would cause? Talk about screwing a kid up. I'll tell you from experience being able to do things at home and not understanding why I couldn't do them all the time caused a terrible sense of shame that something was wrong with me or that I had to hide who I was because it was embarrassing to my parents.

Honestly it seems like "how you are viewed by others" plays a bigger role in trans happiness than, then being able to be yourself....if it was about being yourself, you can be yourself at home...

Wear a dress and makeup to work tomorrow or go to Home Depot and see "how you are viewed by others" affects your happiness. Do it for a week. Do it for years. Hey, it's no big thing - you can "be yourself" at home

You don't have to be yourself every second of every day...

Do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds?

It really seems like it's an issue of "I don't care how devestating a kids childhood is, as long as there are more openly trans kids so I feel validated and not so isolated, screw the bullying and misdiagnosis that might could have been avoided....

Guess you are in denial that there are thousands of these kids all over the country going to school leading normal lives as regular boys and girls where nobody knows of their birth status. The out and open kids you see are the vast minority of this demographic and again with the misdiagnosis thing when others have pointed out time and again with the team of professionals these kids and their parents see how unlikely this is.

If your brain wiring doesn't match your DNA, it would be a no brainer to fix it.

In sci-fi land maybe? What else we going to re-wire people for? Your suggestions reek of eugenics.

Not because science wants to arbitrarily create a third gender because of a very uncommon birth defect...

Oh, so transgender people are a third gender now?

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

the first three are a sexual lifestyle where they choose how to reach orgasm other than exclusively heterosexual

I see. You consider orgasm that which defines you.

You don't see a problem where children are seen as adult enough to accept their own transgenderism as it is presented alongside a purely sexually orientated movement?

"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No, it defines them by their choosing and I have no problem with it.

your second response,
"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No it is not and that is my point. Why marry transgender to gay lesbian and bisexual other than to equivocate it. That is what it has done, equivocate one with the other in the publics eye. It is a deception. To deceive is to have a purpose for it is more work to deceive than to tell the truth. That purpose is logically to be able to promote pedophilia to the public as the next stage in the sexual revolution.

PEople used to live a lot shorter time...so those back then were all pedophiles right? It wasnt uncomon to have a teenage wife.

Are you Muslim?

Your argument says that back in the old days 20 year olds married 12 year olds so today we live twice as long so that 12 year old can now marry a 40 year old. Sick twisted logic which appears normal to you?

Pedo excuses are common today, found routinely where "critical thinking" and "deny ignorance" are a mantra.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

the first three are a sexual lifestyle where they choose how to reach orgasm other than exclusively heterosexual

I see. You consider orgasm that which defines you.

You don't see a problem where children are seen as adult enough to accept their own transgenderism as it is presented alongside a purely sexually orientated movement?

"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No, it defines them by their choosing and I have no problem with it.

your second response,
"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No it is not and that is my point. Why marry transgender to gay lesbian and bisexual other than to equivocate it. That is what it has done, equivocate one with the other in the publics eye. It is a deception. To deceive is to have a purpose for it is more work to deceive than to tell the truth. That purpose is logically to be able to promote pedophilia to the public as the next stage in the sexual revolution.

PEople used to live a lot shorter time...so those back then were all pedophiles right? It wasnt uncomon to have a teenage wife.

Are you Muslim?

Your argument says that back in the old days 20 year olds married 12 year olds so today we live twice as long so that 12 year old can now marry a 40 year old. Sick twisted logic which appears normal to you?

Pedo excuses are common today, found routinely where "critical thinking" and "deny ignorance" are a mantra.

IF they are old enough to have A period they are according to nature breeding age,BUT since we are talking Actual LAW here you got a point BUT i was making a point by being absurd. LAWS AND CIRCUMSTANCES CHANGE TO SUIT THEIR TIMES. ANd no im not a muslim. I would not want to offend them by being one either.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

the first three are a sexual lifestyle where they choose how to reach orgasm other than exclusively heterosexual

I see. You consider orgasm that which defines you.

You don't see a problem where children are seen as adult enough to accept their own transgenderism as it is presented alongside a purely sexually orientated movement?

"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No, it defines them by their choosing and I have no problem with it.

your second response,
"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No it is not and that is my point. Why marry transgender to gay lesbian and bisexual other than to equivocate it. That is what it has done, equivocate one with the other in the publics eye. It is a deception. To deceive is to have a purpose for it is more work to deceive than to tell the truth. That purpose is logically to be able to promote pedophilia to the public as the next stage in the sexual revolution.

PEople used to live a lot shorter time...so those back then were all pedophiles right? It wasnt uncomon to have a teenage wife.

I think so...

I don't think the time that has passed has erased the truly monsterous acts. Rape, murder, torturers.

If not then that means anyone who rejected their society and say, taught there daughters to read, are not now nor were they then criminals....

I think it just makes the ones who bucked the system that much more heroic..

Heres the thing though. back then it wasnt seen as abuse to marry young because the life span was so short,but that eventually changed into being labeled pedophilia somehow. Now IF the girl was not Breeding age(most likely teenage years) that was seen as wrong. They considered tens back then able to make some decisions on their lives because they grew up much faster then.

a reply to: Freija

Sorry but 5 years old is way too early for any child to be making a decision.

Let the children be children is my motto. That is all they are being... children. Don't force them to make genda choices at such an age... shouldn't even be confusing the childs brain at that age.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: Freija

Sorry but 5 years old is way too early for any child to be making a decision.

Let the children be children is my motto. That is all they are being... children. Don't force them to make genda choices at such an age... shouldn't even be confusing the childs brain at that age.

Where are you getting force from?

Sounds like you want to force the gender you've decided.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
ally you don't see the hypocrisy in deciding a 2 year old is trans and swapping them without any difinative test, and undeniably a really crappy diagnosis rate..

Parents of some of these kids say as soon as their children can talk they are saying they are a girl or a boy. This is a fundamental basis of who all of us are as people and even kids know when it is wrong. If your mother put you in dresses and pig tails as a child, at what age would you have protested this? At five? At seven? What age would have known this was wrong for you?

For the umpteenth time, what clinicians look for is this that this behavior and vocalization is expressed consistently, persistently and insistently over time. When a kid has been trying to tell his/her parents this since they were two and is saying and demanding the same thing when they are 4 or 5, that is when they are evaluated and diagnosed.

That is your test. Is it definitive? No but when associated with other problems such as depression, anxiety and the whole list I don't feel like typing out for you AGAIN, and transitioning turns these kids around, makes them happy, cooperative and able to socialize then it doesn't take a brain scan, blood test or a rocket scientist to figure out this makes the lives of these kids better and improves their quality of life.

You really don't see how crazy that sounds???

It sounds crazy to you because you haven't witnessed it or experienced it but I know if my folks had listened to me when I was five and if it had been possible to transition back then, it sure would have sparred me a lot of grief, frustration and having my ass kicked for being different and sticking out. It would made my childhood far less traumatic, far less violent, a million times happier and I wouldn't have had to live for years locked away in my bedroom wanting to kill myself or be dead because I didn't want to live a lie or be perceived as something I was not. It took my parents until I was 15 and was nearly killed before they even started to get it and believe me, I've had every friggin' test under the sun and then some starting from the age of 10 until I was 17 and got a break for a while until we could actually find a doctor that knew what the hell they were talking about to get me hormones.

Save your cries for definitive testing for someone that cares. The proof, the test is in the children's lives that are improved, that are livable and happy and that have the chance to be normal kids. If you're going to stand in the way of that just because you don't understand it then I'm going to be standing in your way so these kids don't have to deal with crap in their lives by someone that thinks they know better than their own parents and doctors.

There is no way you are a parent...no parent thinks their 2 year old has even close to that level of cognative thinking.


All of no group of people have gone on to having improved lives....


You show your bias in the way you word things and refuse to even contemplate an alternative.


It's really just been one ridiculously false absolute after another..and absolutes that nearly anyone could tell you was illogical as can be..

You want to give these kids a happy life, but reject even the thought that it could involve making them match their brains and bodies match 100%...

Making a trans person the closest proximity to the opposite sex we can, is not making them 100% whole. Even if it was a lie they needed to make life bare able, it would still be a lie.

But even when it is a hypothetical best case scenerio. You can't comprehend it the other way....

If you could make their brains match their bodies, that would make them 100% whole, but you would rather them be 70% whole and face all the negative social ramifications of being different... Just so they have to stay trans....

Making their brains and bodies match? What does that even mean outside of conditioning of roles behavoirs and expectations... of know your role, and oh that whole easy way to match the dishwasher to the oven is buy "her" a dress...

People are sick of these expected roles and pretending to play some role to statsify a status quo in public based on morals instead of ethics.

Morals are religious based treat adults like children, when ethics say its the situation the facts as we know it and not belief... the belief is women have a place and they should stick to that place... and now somehow there is a woman brain and main brain?

Nonsense, that has been conditioned repression of individuality of roles and expectations of beghavoir or male or female and expression in public that is acceptable... or the fake facade that says dont be yourself people dont like it, repress those emotions except when you need to open a can of whoop ass to be a man... oh and dont forget to hate on other guys that may be a little feminine for that extra star on your be a man smoking jacket at club macho, and make sure to give a firm slap on any females bottom as a token of job well done...

What mysaganistic sexist garbage... hey if you want to live and believe like that and a whole group does awesome, but the public based on ethics and not expected fake roles of stereotypes ala 1940s to 50s with guys and dolls dames and broads is insanity and fake and plastic to everyone not living those stereotypes but forced to live them... and well no one is going to be forced to live them in a sane and rational society... that time is past, but if you wanna live like that choice. Wanna restrict others to your choice so its out of site out of mind pretend time?

Wake up people dont want to live fake and plastic because someone or a group doesnt want to believe it exists.

Opinion otherwise invalid... and it has nothing to do with political labels, just trying to control people by idealistic ideologies that are unattainable by anything other than force and control and brainwashing... or indoctrinization as some nut bags like to sling around same rhetoric as gateway drug, as they sip coke a cola and call people fags wishing for poodle skirts and bobby socks... ffs yeah it was a lifestyle a generation and not the only damned one get over yourselves.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

This was all referring to a specific hypothetical that started here. Then moved to a different one. Then got moved beck here. In a nut shell it was:

Assuming science has identified the neurological cause of transgender disorder, and could safely fix the issue.

If your(a) kid is diagnosed transgendered by a confirmed test. Assuming both options are perfectly safe, do you do swap sex/clothes and block puberty (aka our OP) or do you do the brain scan?


For context.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

the first three are a sexual lifestyle where they choose how to reach orgasm other than exclusively heterosexual

I see. You consider orgasm that which defines you.

You don't see a problem where children are seen as adult enough to accept their own transgenderism as it is presented alongside a purely sexually orientated movement?

"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No, it defines them by their choosing and I have no problem with it.

your second response,
"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No it is not and that is my point. Why marry transgender to gay lesbian and bisexual other than to equivocate it. That is what it has done, equivocate one with the other in the publics eye. It is a deception. To deceive is to have a purpose for it is more work to deceive than to tell the truth. That purpose is logically to be able to promote pedophilia to the public as the next stage in the sexual revolution.

PEople used to live a lot shorter time...so those back then were all pedophiles right? It wasnt uncomon to have a teenage wife.

I think so...

I don't think the time that has passed has erased the truly monsterous acts. Rape, murder, torturers.

If not then that means anyone who rejected their society and say, taught there daughters to read, are not now nor were they then criminals....

I think it just makes the ones who bucked the system that much more heroic..

Heres the thing though. back then it wasnt seen as abuse to marry young because the life span was so short,but that eventually changed into being labeled pedophilia somehow. Now IF the girl was not Breeding age(most likely teenage years) that was seen as wrong. They considered tens back then able to make some decisions on their lives because they grew up much faster then.

My point is that it was still wrong.

No matter what age you lived in, marrying off your 12 year old daughter to an old man who would rape her the second she started, was rape.

I don't care if he fed and clothed her...I don't care if my great grand daddy did it..

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

the first three are a sexual lifestyle where they choose how to reach orgasm other than exclusively heterosexual

I see. You consider orgasm that which defines you.

You don't see a problem where children are seen as adult enough to accept their own transgenderism as it is presented alongside a purely sexually orientated movement?

"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No, it defines them by their choosing and I have no problem with it.

your second response,
"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No it is not and that is my point. Why marry transgender to gay lesbian and bisexual other than to equivocate it. That is what it has done, equivocate one with the other in the publics eye. It is a deception. To deceive is to have a purpose for it is more work to deceive than to tell the truth. That purpose is logically to be able to promote pedophilia to the public as the next stage in the sexual revolution.

PEople used to live a lot shorter time...so those back then were all pedophiles right? It wasnt uncomon to have a teenage wife.

I think so...

I don't think the time that has passed has erased the truly monsterous acts. Rape, murder, torturers.

If not then that means anyone who rejected their society and say, taught there daughters to read, are not now nor were they then criminals....

I think it just makes the ones who bucked the system that much more heroic..

Heres the thing though. back then it wasnt seen as abuse to marry young because the life span was so short,but that eventually changed into being labeled pedophilia somehow. Now IF the girl was not Breeding age(most likely teenage years) that was seen as wrong. They considered tens back then able to make some decisions on their lives because they grew up much faster then.

I think this is a perfect example of how nostalgia creates the "good ole days fallacy."

The real truth is (no matter what race, creed or color) most of our ancestors continued being monsters long after it was necessary for survival and an evolutionary advantage.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

the first three are a sexual lifestyle where they choose how to reach orgasm other than exclusively heterosexual

I see. You consider orgasm that which defines you.

You don't see a problem where children are seen as adult enough to accept their own transgenderism as it is presented alongside a purely sexually orientated movement?

"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No, it defines them by their choosing and I have no problem with it.

your second response,
"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No it is not and that is my point. Why marry transgender to gay lesbian and bisexual other than to equivocate it. That is what it has done, equivocate one with the other in the publics eye. It is a deception. To deceive is to have a purpose for it is more work to deceive than to tell the truth. That purpose is logically to be able to promote pedophilia to the public as the next stage in the sexual revolution.

PEople used to live a lot shorter time...so those back then were all pedophiles right? It wasnt uncomon to have a teenage wife.

I think so...

I don't think the time that has passed has erased the truly monsterous acts. Rape, murder, torturers.

If not then that means anyone who rejected their society and say, taught there daughters to read, are not now nor were they then criminals....

I think it just makes the ones who bucked the system that much more heroic..

Heres the thing though. back then it wasnt seen as abuse to marry young because the life span was so short,but that eventually changed into being labeled pedophilia somehow. Now IF the girl was not Breeding age(most likely teenage years) that was seen as wrong. They considered tens back then able to make some decisions on their lives because they grew up much faster then.

I think this is a perfect example of how nostalgia creates the "good ole days fallacy."

The real truth is (no matter what race, creed or color) most of our ancestors continued being monsters long after it was necessary for survival and an evolutionary advantage.

How were our ancestors monsters pray tell? they lived by whats called common sense back then and DID NOT have any issues with screwing a girl that was too young.(notice i said too young as in not able to have children)

Most pedophiles usually go after very very young children and not teenagers who back in th eold days had more common sense than most adults these days.

I dont long for the old days BTW. Just stating how it was.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Sorry most people didnt do that in the US. Im specifically talking about the US not anywhere else. ANd how is doing your wifely duty rape?(by th elaws of their time it was not even considered a wife refusing to have sex with her husband)