Kansas budget problems cool enthusiasm for tax cuts in states, Congress

a reply to: LDragonFire

Right!! Exactly that.

It's taken some time; decades, actually - and now the fruit is ripe at long last: not real tasty.

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Yeah not taxing industry or corporations or the wealthy makes us free....... Btw the Picard isn't conservative or right wing.

Picard is a fictional character... you know that, right?

a reply to: syrinx high priest

Yes, everyone agrees! That's great!

Now - okay, we keep swimming, altogether now - swim!! Swim against the net! Away from the boat!
(finding Nemo)

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Picard is a fictional character... you know that, right?

Is that right, Captain 'Murica The Abovetopsecret Avenger? Can I just call you Mur?

Hey, we are trying to talk about Kansas. It is what it is. You all can pout elsewhere - but this meeting was called to discuss the failure of the experiment they call "Brownback."

I'm hoping for some relatively subjective, or at least light-hearted discourse....I find it to be a step forward in any case. It proves what DOESN'T work, by way of trying what someone thought would work. So - let's not try that plan again!!

Right?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Yeah not taxing industry or corporations or the wealthy makes us free....... Btw the Picard isn't conservative or right wing.

Picard is a fictional character... you know that, right?

Of course I do, you do know GOP economic policy promising jobs and prosperity is also fiction you do know that right?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The experiment failed because Kansas' politicians can't live within their means. If that means the state needs to cut funding to schools, health, and welfare programs or rework their pensions to get their spending under control then DO IT! If I suddenly overdraft my bank account, I gotta cancel cable, eat Ramen for a couple weeks, and tighten the belt. If the government overdrafts their account, they should do the same... not simply shift the legalized theft machine into a higher gear.

And the Picard meme is 100% on point. This stupid nation is almost to the critical mass point where the leeches outnumber the providers... when that point is reached, since we foolishly allow these folks to vote, the Meal Ticket will be impossible to beat in all future elections and we will see Atlas shrug as the jealous elect more and more Robbin Hoods to office and the first place they turn to fund their Kept Voter pool initiatives will be those of us paying net positive taxes already.

a reply to: LDragonFire

Only when the heart is allowed to bleed, my friend.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

They did tighten the belt, after doing so they still can't pay the bills. Whether you like it or not, certain services like hospitals, roads, and schools are going to be funded. There's only so many schools, and they can only fit so many students per teacher, then those teachers can/will only accept a wage above X. That puts a minimum on what the state needs to generate in revenue that you just can't go below with cuts.

Another example is roads. Roads generate economic activity, you can't let them deteriorate without losing commerce. KDOT or whatever it's called in their state needs a certain amount of money annually in order to monitor road conditions and pay crews to repair them. If the road network doesn't expand, this is a fixed cost that you can't cut.

a reply to: Aazadan

Left-over binge spending from 2 previous governors.

Deeply instilled mid-level/administrative Democrat operatives not exposed yet.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

This stupid nation is almost to the critical mass point where the leeches outnumber the providers... when that point is reached, since we foolishly allow these folks to vote, the Meal Ticket will be impossible to beat in all future elections and we will see Atlas shrug as the jealous elect more and more Robbin Hoods to office and the first place they turn to fund their Kept Voter pool initiatives will be those of us paying net positive taxes already.

Wow. Just, wow - I can feel your rage from here. We're not in the Mudpit, are we?

Perhaps should be if that's the tone you want to take.

originally posted by: syrinx high priest
its weird, i don't see anyone disputing the kansas experiment was an unmitigated disaster

so lets move forward that everyone agreess the republican economic wet dream really is a nightmare

cool, we settled that

Well, some of us have to work during the day, and won't reply in less than 3-4 hours of a post being started.

Nightmare? No. Overdone too soon... I'll agree to that. The tax cuts shouldn't have been cold turkey.

A legislature that won't moderate spending when a new tax plan is put in place doesn't help. Responsible people would expect there to be an unknown factor and plan accordingly.

A state supreme court that thinks it can legislate budgets definitely doesn't help.

An anemic economy brought about by failed federal democratic policies is a lead weight.

Historically Kansas lags behind most other states in recovering from recessions, and most states aren't out of the 2008 Democrat recession yet.

That said...

Kansas is not the planet, so Global Meltdown is hyperbolic.

Being downgraded is bad, yes. Just think back to when the USA went down to AA+. Who was the President at that time, again? Stupid, failed experiment.

Kansas is not cutting the education budget, but they are not meeting the increase that the legislature and courts want. Repeat after me, the amount of money going to the Kansas schools was not cut from previous year's spending, it was increased.

In other news, Kansas unemployment is down to 4%. Personal income taxes revenues have been increasing year after year since the business cuts. 2015 revenues did not meet estimates but they were not lower than 2014.

*shrug* Kansas isn't imploding, no matter what the Democrats want people to believe. I expect that it will take a while longer for things to perk up.

Ok, so Kansas cut taxes and is failing. Good point.
So how is Illinois doing?
How about California?
High tax eutopia's right?

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: syrinx high priest
its weird, i don't see anyone disputing the kansas experiment was an unmitigated disaster

so lets move forward that everyone agreess the republican economic wet dream really is a nightmare

cool, we settled that

Well, some of us have to work during the day, and won't reply in less than 3-4 hours of a post being started.

Nightmare? No. Overdone too soon... I'll agree to that. The tax cuts shouldn't have been cold turkey.

A legislature that won't moderate spending when a new tax plan is put in place doesn't help. Responsible people would expect there to be an unknown factor and plan accordingly.

A state supreme court that thinks it can legislate budgets definitely doesn't help.

An anemic economy brought about by failed federal democratic policies is a lead weight.

Historically Kansas lags behind most other states in recovering from recessions, and most states aren't out of the 2008 Democrat recession yet.

That said...

Kansas is not the planet, so Global Meltdown is hyperbolic.

Being downgraded is bad, yes. Just think back to when the USA went down to AA+. Who was the President at that time, again? Stupid, failed experiment.

Kansas is not cutting the education budget, but they are not meeting the increase that the legislature and courts want. Repeat after me, the amount of money going to the Kansas schools was not cut from previous year's spending, it was increased.

In other news, Kansas unemployment is down to 4%. Personal income taxes revenues have been increasing year after year since the business cuts. 2015 revenues did not meet estimates but they were not lower than 2014.

*shrug* Kansas isn't imploding, no matter what the Democrats want people to believe. I expect that it will take a while longer for things to perk up.

you completely missed the point. dd you watch the video ? the tax breaks led to kansas having the worst job growth in the entire country !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as the farmer said "I just put that money in my pocket"

the entire premise of the tax breaks is that it would lead to job growth because the "job creators" would take those tax breaks an invest in job growth

its a policy that is naive at best and deceitful at worst

a reply to: syrinx high priest

Kansas Unemployment Rate 4%

originally posted by: syrinx high priest
you completely missed the point. dd you watch the video ? the tax breaks led to kansas having the worst job growth in the entire country !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No I didn't, and I don't care. When you have a 4% unemployment, job growth is going to be slow. That's math.

as the farmer said "I just put that money in my pocket"

Good for him! I can't really blame him in this anemic economy that Obama has given us, and that the GOP Congress doesn't have the guts to dial back.

the entire premise of the tax breaks is that it would lead to job growth because the "job creators" would take those tax breaks an invest in job growth

its a policy that is naive at best and deceitful at worst

So job growth is enhanced by taking more money away from people?

a reply to: syrinx high priest

you completely missed the point.

That's his best trick.

the tax breaks led to kansas having the worst job growth in the entire country !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

True. Correct. Fact. History. Indisputable. Effect. Cause identified. Policy to blame. Fail. Fail. Fail. Fail.

its a policy that is naive at best and deceitful at worst

Regardless, it is to be discarded at this juncture. Or tried somewhere else by some seceded state or some 'territory' and then be held out again as another failure. v2.0 Beta testing. Kansas is done.

Next!!!! *think doctor evil's frau whomever*

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: burdman30ott6

They did tighten the belt, after doing so they still can't pay the bills. Whether you like it or not, certain services like hospitals, roads, and schools are going to be funded. There's only so many schools, and they can only fit so many students per teacher, then those teachers can/will only accept a wage above X. That puts a minimum on what the state needs to generate in revenue that you just can't go below with cuts.

Another example is roads. Roads generate economic activity, you can't let them deteriorate without losing commerce. KDOT or whatever it's called in their state needs a certain amount of money annually in order to monitor road conditions and pay crews to repair them. If the road network doesn't expand, this is a fixed cost that you can't cut.

Deunionize the schools and toll the state roads.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Wow. Just, wow - I can feel your rage from here. We're not in the Mudpit, are we?

Perhaps should be if that's the tone you want to take.

Why? I'm not going partisan here at all. In fact, my first post in this thread criticized the primarily GOP Kansas government for overspending their means.

If calling a spade a spade when identifying the provider vs taker ratio of this nation and the certainty of the future should that ratio become flipped constitutes mud slinging to you, then perhaps you should move yourself out of the way because solutions are coming through and you wouldn't want to be steamrolled by them.

You're right about my rage, though. Being robbed and then having the crime lords turn around and criticize you for not carrying enough money on you to cover their expenses has that effect.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

If calling a spade a spade when identifying the provider vs taker ratio of this nation and the certainty of the future should that ratio become flipped constitutes mud slinging to you,

Omg, burd. We are talking about the numbers - the outcomes of the policies that this governor has implemented and that this state congress has enabled. It did not work.

then perhaps you should move yourself out of the way because solutions are coming through and you wouldn't want to be steamrolled by them.

Do you not get that I and mine and the rest of this state's populace have already been steamrolled? It's done. We did. It was. Ouch. Guess I didn't use that word before. Yes, we got steamrolled. It sucks.

You're right about my rage, though. Being robbed and then having the crime lords turn around and criticize you for not carrying enough money on you to cover their expenses has that effect.

What?
No idea what you're talking about.
You are in Alaska. I am in Kansas. Where I am, the plan for this location failed. It simply is what it is.

How is it you think I'm being naive? I've been voting for nearly 40 years.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: burdman30ott6

They did tighten the belt, after doing so they still can't pay the bills. Whether you like it or not, certain services like hospitals, roads, and schools are going to be funded. There's only so many schools, and they can only fit so many students per teacher, then those teachers can/will only accept a wage above X. That puts a minimum on what the state needs to generate in revenue that you just can't go below with cuts.

Another example is roads. Roads generate economic activity, you can't let them deteriorate without losing commerce. KDOT or whatever it's called in their state needs a certain amount of money annually in order to monitor road conditions and pay crews to repair them. If the road network doesn't expand, this is a fixed cost that you can't cut.

Deunionize the schools and toll the state roads.

They are currently working to pass legislation that will remove the state supreme court from deciding how much of their budget should be spent on schools. Last I checked a full 2/3 of the budget is being spent on schools, at a rate of $12K per student when the national average is $10K. Not that I have anything against money to schools, but it should be the legislature that spends it, and placing responsible guidelines in place for how it is spent.