A thought project on the devil and the bible.

I have tried twice to write a response to this thread answering each person reply but my browser keeps closing on me :/.

OK, I double checked the scripture I had in mind and i was remembering the wording wrong, had it all mixed up. You are correct the Bible does not say that is not corruptable. For the purposes of this conversation that matters very little though as believers accept that as a commen truth. I heard the phrase "The in foulable word of god." many times in refference to the bible when I was a kid. It also accepteed as fact among believers that the entire bible is the word of god.

On everyone going to heaven, that is the only other huge difference between JWs and mainstream christians, they beleive only 144,000 people will go to heaven and they are supposed to help Jesus rule over each area on earth from heaven. The rest will stay dead until the time of the ressurection when every person whom has ever lived that was not truly evil will come ack to life and get a second chance. >.>
They also think that after 1,000 years the devil and his demons will be released again and whomever fails this time will die forever. This is one of the things my wife and I debate a LOT when it comes to her religion. According to some number crunching a few scientists did, there have been around 107 BILLION people that have ever lived on this planet. Could you imagine if that came true today how crowded we would be? Bwahah. Anyway, .. moving on.

I feel my question has been answered several times over by anyone who wants to answer. I am not abandoning this thread but I am only going to check on it once a day now. I have already devoted way too much to it as it is. Thank you all for that conversation, I feel everyone who posted had something to bring to the table and I learned a few things.

Honestly, for me, one of the most difficult parts of the bible is Job. I mean, seriously, how compassionate is God if he allows such an evil as Satan to engage in a game of competition? I can see how Satan would find benefit...but what benefit would there be for God and Job?

According, to scripture, God allowed Satan to do his best to destroy Job's faith. True, I understand the ultimate 'suffering' theme. Yet, am confused on why God would even contemplate speaking with such a 'traitor', let alone make such a deal with the devil himself?

Which makes me focus back to Genesis. God created everything and it is good. How? I am told that Satan is bad...if God did not create him? Who did? If God did, then how can he be evil? The bible says God created all and it is Good! Hmmm...

Edit add: sheesh! Another point popped into thought. If the old testament God is a jealous God, how can he condemn man for such emotions? Personally, in my human life, jealousy by another leads to no good and you are best to run the other way! Satan seems more like an equal who wishes to share knowledge without worship and adoration. God has been shown to commit many of the sins throughout the bible that he condemns.

Perhaps, all of these recent religious books are based off of original creation stories of ancient civilizations and have been plagiarized by man themselves to create control over their populations, after all.

Another thing.... What's with the New Testament? Honestly, most of what Jesus says his explanations of old testament. He was well-versed and apparently able to translate for the earlier Christians who could not read. What pulls me back on Jesus, and mind you, I had been baptized in water numerous times due to all the branches of Christianity don't consider you truly baptized unless they see it with their own eyes! Ahem. My problem with the baptisms, is that the whole script is in asking another spirit to take over and guide you. Ta ta dum. Egad! Believe me, I have been the most happiest when I undid whatever the churches did to me back then. Sure life still has struggles,but I have found more compassion and understanding after I seemingly cleansed myself.

I am sure that sounds kooky, but psychologically, it worked for me. I just need my own spirit to guide me and it seems to work. I have come to the conclusion that I believe in an ultimate energy source, but it is not a known God. Will I die, yes, and the universe will distribute my particles of matter and energy out to be reborn into many more exciting things. Who or what my ultimate spirit is...I can only guess its origin...perhaps what others call God. For now, I am going to experience life as I feel is intended and when I die...honestly, I don't think the person I am now will even understand....but the 'I' of all that is, was, or will ever be will!

Edit add: Wow! Thank you. I think this is the first time I have ever been able to describe simply to myself (let alone, others) my own belief.

a reply to: DeviantMortal

An even more interesting theory is that the bible itself is not so much corrupted by, but is the work of the devil. God looks at it and goes "lol wtf"?

If... perhaps I am... or could be... the devil... I would tell you how the image in which "They" created you is and was the image of the father... a thing of high regard. It is called flag... banner... or spirit.
Holy because it is of the father. Afterwards... I'd begin to tell you of far away lands where men believe the same and are taught the same. Then I tell you of the age old craft which men have wrought. It is called war. And it is your only charge. Your first charge. Your only point of being. Worthy adversaries who think alike and do the same is what makes you MIGHTY and glorious. Worthy of the spoils which has enriched your great order and house. In particular.... Your wife.
Without your worthy enemies your are a dupe. Good for nothing. Then I'd tell you how the devil within that mystery comes into being. You cry and whine about the order of things. In particular... living and in particular dying. Can you handle it...??? You cry and fear death... Then you are a dupe. There is no finer glory to to be what is inevitable. Dead. When you cry... Your House loses honor. A Thing wrought by war during peace time. The devil then enters your impregnable domain and instructs what is not of your father. But Instead a corrupted version of the holy spirit. Those things are as such:
I Am The Light. For Men Who Can Not Be Men... There Is The Sacred Charge. Aka the next best thing aka "Clever!" If You can't be a man... Be Clever. But once you decide to... you will never be a man. Cleverness is holy and sacred to mortals. But because you desire to live... you will inevitably die nameless. And when you do die... Your name shall fade away into the shadows from whence it came. It is... the devil's trick to allow you to take one thing alone. Your souls is his. Your body... to the dust. Your people... forgetful. And you.... well... nameless. Love mightier... and be forever remembered. For a thousand years. Yay?
Or be clever... fear death... and make the world believe what is clever in you. I hope it is not a great scheme of a lie. Good luck. But... you take with you... Your name... and only your name.
Be a man.... instead. For the devil is a funny thing. Since he could not be a man.... he chose to be clever. Much better at it than you. Keep your soul. Fight. And your name is worthy of remembrance. The Image will be holy. And in your time under the sun.... is when the world has its beauty... it's strength... and it's wisdom. Don't let that go for him. A Woman.... has no pride... But what God can grant to her. You are it. His work is done. True hell follows with you. So is the might of your father... you... the son... and the holy spirit. But... what's in a name.

a reply to: Pinocchio

A very detailed plan O.O almost seems like you have given this thought before.

originally posted by: DeviantMortal
a reply to: Pinocchio

A very detailed plan O.O almost seems like you have given this thought before.

Tis biblical. It is not the word of god. But the story of his craft. No better craft... he has than to give you absolute dominion of all things. Things In the earth. Things in the sky. And things in the sea. Then dominion over her... Your mate. She has only the desire for you. The rest of the bible is for the children. It has woe... it has comedy... and it has truth. But no greater truth in life than the mystery of you. If you look for God. You Will Not find him. Much less in the books.
He is all around you. And inside you. And also... in your works. Do not waste time reading stories of men. You Will only learn you are less. Go now... take your place amongst men. Lead and follow. Or else. The devil awaits. Those are the works of the bible. Goodness is in right action. Not in questioning the God of Abraham. Believe it if your going to treasure it. If you can't do that... put it down. Never speak of it again. Let it go.
The devil is as such:
In all my cleverness... I have come to learn.... that... "inspiration" is key to all things the Lord would not give me... But gave them. They are inspired. And so am I. But my inspiration is to create one so MIGHTY... I Call it beast with seven heads.

The First Two Head Are Two Snakes That Dwell With You. They Shall Slay The Angel If you Let Me. Their names are "Fear & Doubt!"
The Other Is My friend... also a great snake.... His name is "Temptation. He devours the branch of the tree of the eternal and everlasting life. A Thing you mistakenly call... "Your honor and your love."

The Third... are my friends. They are my namesake. Their names are "Blasphemy & Swearing!"
The wrought me well your sword. For... there was truth and justice... But my snakes are deadly.
This is your father's sword. Thanks old chum.
The last is my favorite snake. He is was and will be The snake named surrender. He shall have her for himself.
They are six. Behold the hex-a-gram. The center piece is you... my most beloved snake. That beast... my Lord must know. I will show him.

Next time you see a caduceus.... remember... the Angel of god.
Next time you see... the rod of asclepius... remember the branch of the everlasting.
Next time you see the sword of hope... aka American cancer society.... remember the truth.
Next time you see the bowl of hygeia... remember the cup of the Lord Your God. Aka your woman. A daughter of kings. Of your house.

Hospital symbols.... For the sick. Snake bites are my inspiration.. please have one... Or two... Or threes... Or all.

OK,.. most of that Im not sure what to say about. But that last bit about the hopsital symbols.

There are a few theories about it but my favorite is the constellation Ophiuchus, the so called 13th zodiac sign. And there was another Egyptian based one but I can not recall enough information at this time to say more than that.
But anyway the constellation is a man holding/fighting a snake (not sure where the staff/rod comes into play as its not in the stars)

a reply to: DeviantMortal

Yes... I am familiar with the telling. But I do not speak of stars. Only of a funny devil. Charming fallow he is. I truly admire his taste and class. But he is a devil. To Better say it... He is my joy.
I don't trust him. But I learn from him. Mostly how to not be a devil. No Greater day than that.
With God... I learn my punishment is indeed death. But in our time together I suffer only my inexperience to be and do good. God does not grant me lessons in morality. I must find out what pure of heart is on my own. It easy. And fun. But also.... a never ending struggle.
The more good I do.... the better. Do not look to the stars. They are old.
Look to the past of your house. Then to the present. And then to the future. See what God did.

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: DeviantMortal

If I were the devil and wanted to conquer the world I would start with Christianity.

I would slink in there, make everyone believe they are going to hell if they don't listen to me then sit back and watch them hate and judge and laugh and know my plan worked.

A few subtle changes to the bible that obscure the most important things it says would facilitate that tactic quite well, not too much so that people begin to notice. And early on.

a reply to: DeviantMortal

I think that the major issue is the Old Testament Ha Satan, a title and not a name, meaning the Adversary. But he was not YHVH's Adversary he was his loyal servant. This is still the majority of thought in Judaism today. It is God who causes evil and God who causes good. The Old Testament has God saying so himself. This is because he is omnipotent and has no adversaries.

Christians assign everything they consider evil to Satan. Yet they call him the god of this world. When did God appoint Satan to god of earth? They think Satan rebelled against God and God rewarded him by putting him in charge a this world.

The Bible doesn't support this and Christians believe more myths about Satan than what the Bible actually says about him. Even in the New Testament when Satan offers Jesus the world in exchange for worship. But Satan doesn't really have possession of the world given him by God, he is lying, tempting Jesus because that is his job.

The crucifixion was planned by God. Satan helps God accomplish this plan by possessing Judas and making him betray Jesus. It might seem dastardly but he did in fact assist God in his plan rather than try and make it fail.

The Dragon of Revelation and Satan in that book are part of a genre of apocalyptic prophecy that used mystical language and doesn't always conform to reality. The being Satan isn't going to be destroyed for doing what he was created to do. Dragons and beasts are all allegorical for people and nations and sometimes mythical beings.

Satan is a Christian fabrication borrowed from a fringe Jewish cult who called him Belial. And they also tried making Old Testament prophecies about humans apply to him to describe his fall. But this was proven to be incorrect and the issue is not discussed.

a reply to: CapstonePendulum
Who Is Satan the Devil? Is He Real?

SOME modern scholars say that Satan is not a real person. They claim that he was merely created in the imagination of men [much like yourself]. This controversy is nothing new. “The Devil’s deepest wile,” wrote 19th-century poet Charles-Pierre Baudelaire, “is to persuade us that he does not exist.”

Is Satan a real person? If so, where did he come from? Is he the unseen power behind the problems plaguing our world? How can you avoid his evil influence?

What the Bible Says

The Bible describes Satan as a real person who exists in the invisible spirit realm. (Job 1:6) It tells us about his vicious and ruthless qualities as well as his evil actions. (Job 1:13-19; 2:7, 8; 2 Timothy 2:26) It even records conversations that Satan had with God and with Jesus.—Job 1:7-12; Matthew 4:1-11.

Where did such an evil being come from? Long before man existed, God created his “firstborn” Son, who eventually came to be known as Jesus. (Colossians 1:15) In time, other “sons of God,” called angels, were created. (Job 38:4-7) All were perfect and righteous. However, one of those angels would become Satan.

Satan was not his given name at the time of his creation. It is a descriptive name, which means “Adversary; Enemy; Accuser.” He came to be called Satan because he chose a life course in opposition to God.

Feelings of pride and rivalry toward God grew within this spirit creature. He wanted others to worship him. When God’s firstborn Son, Jesus, was on the earth, Satan even attempted to get Jesus to “do an act of worship” to him.—Matthew 4:9.

Satan “did not stand fast in the truth.” (John 8:44) He implied that God was a liar, when, in fact, he was the liar. He told Eve that she could be like God, whereas he wanted to be like God. And through his deceitful ways, he achieved his selfish desire. To Eve, he made himself higher than God. By obeying Satan, Eve accepted Satan as her god.—Genesis 3:1-7.

By fomenting rebellion, this once trusted angel made himself Satan—an adversary and enemy of God and man. The designation “Devil,” which means “Slanderer,” was also added to this wicked one’s description. This leader of sin eventually influenced other angels to disobey God and join his rebellion. (Genesis 6:1, 2; 1 Peter 3:19, 20) These angels did not make mankind’s situation better. Because of their imitating Satan’s selfish ways, “the earth became filled with violence.”—Genesis 6:11; Matthew 12:24.

How Powerful Is Satan’s Influence?

A criminal may wipe his fingerprints from the crime scene in an attempt to leave no trace of his identity. However, when the police arrive, they realize that if a crime has been committed, there must be a criminal. Satan, the original “manslayer,” tries to leave no trace of his identity. (John 8:44; Hebrews 2:14) When speaking with Eve, Satan hid his identity behind a serpent. He is still trying to hide today. He “has blinded the minds of the unbelievers” so as to conceal the extent of his powerful influence.—2 Corinthians 4:4.

However, Jesus identified Satan as the criminal mastermind behind the corrupt world we live in. He called him “the ruler of this world.” (John 12:31; 16:11) “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one,” wrote the apostle John. (1 John 5:19) Satan effectively uses “the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life” in “misleading the entire inhabited earth.” (1 John 2:16; Revelation 12:9) He is the one whom mankind in general obeys.

As was the case with Eve, those obeying Satan, in effect, make him their god. Hence, Satan is “the god of this system of things.” (2 Corinthians 4:4) The effects of his rule include hypocrisy and lies; war, torture and destruction; crime, greed and corruption.

Some of the above can also be found and learned more quickly in the video below:

Which might make more sense in light of this video (which I do not agree with but demonstrates some of what's mentioned above, especially the "misleading" and 'deception' parts and the 'confusion' or 'being in mental darkness' effects, which aren't spelled out like that above):

Similar as above (just for demonstrative purposes):