A thought project on the devil and the bible.

a reply to: Rapha

However the Quran is a late comer to the myths and stories in the bible so its only an adaption equating Adam to Adapa etc. These stories belong to far more ancient Babylonian and Akkadian cultures and have been filtered down through the desert religions as though they were the originators of these stories.

a reply to: DeviantMortal

As long as I don't attack what she believes directly we can have a pleasant talk about any belief.

You mean as long as you don't have your own opinion…

Heresy, disbeliever!

Remember when I said, "backs slowly away"?

a reply to: DeviantMortal History is written by the victor. The Abrahamic god has caused more evil by its own actions than Lucifer ever has. I think his is a tragic story and we've only been told half of it. Notice how in many religions the one who gifts man with knowledge is usually punished pretty severely by the head honcho? What if Lucifer is actually the good guy and the "devil" has successfully tricked the entire human population in rooting for the wrong guy? I'm an Atheist so I really don't believe in any of it but there are too many oddities to the bible story for Lucifer to be as evil as everyone says.

a reply to: AVtech34
That is pretty much the very question I posed, while also suggesting that the change doesnt need to be a big one to bring this about.

a reply to: DeviantMortal Can a god go mad? Can it cause despair in its paranormal followers (angelic host)? enough so that they rebel against its madness? We've certainly seen it happen among human civilizations for eons.

originally posted by: DeviantMortal
a reply to: intrptr

LoL I never claimed that any of it was true. Its more of a thought experiment than anything. My wife is a devout Jehovas Witness, and her answer is simply her faith. Her faith is everything when it comes to what she is willing to beleive and I support her and her right to believe what she wants.

On a side note she is very accepting of how skeptical of any faith or religion at all. I attempt to live by a simple thought.

Dont be a d**k.

Im sure most of youcan read past that ameture censorship.

Don't be a dork?

Lol, kidding... I don't have any doubt in the word written in the Bible, however, we've studied the King James version for over 300 years, and its a rewrite of the Geneva Bible that was published in Geneva, Switzerland in 1560, and that was based on Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and a revised New Testament. So while words are different, the message should be relatively the same.

All but forgotten today, the Geneva Bible was the most widely read and influential English Bible of the 16th and 17th centuries. It was one of the Bibles taken to America on the Mayflower.

Mary I was Queen of England and Ireland from 1553 until her death in 1558. Her executions of Protestants caused her opponents to give her the sobriquet "Bloody Mary." It was her persecution that caused the Marian Exile which drove 800 English scholars to the European continent, where a number of them gathered in Geneva, Switzerland. There a team of scholars led by William Whittingham, and assisted by Miles Coverdale, Christopher Goodman, Anthony Gilby, John Knox, and Thomas Sampson, produced The Geneva Bible, based on Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and a revision of William Tyndale's New Testament, which first appeared in 1526. The Geneva Bible New Testament was published in 1557, with the complete Bible appearing in 1560.

In my own survey of the KJV, to see if Hell was supported by the text or not, I found some interesting things about the Devil:

The Devil/Satan is found operating ONLY on the Earth, well, after his expulsion from Heaven.

The Devil/Satan is NOT associated with Hell in any way, and I could not find proof of Hell for that matter.

The Devil/Satan serves God's ends whether he wants to or not.

There is far less said in the Bible about the Devil/Satan than generally thought, as many texts said to be about him are not, and easily proved so.

a reply to: LSU0408

I cath myself having to do a lot of double checking, especially after I post something on this site. I was lead to beleive that the KJV was the worst offendor with intentional changes that made it inaccurate, aperently I was wrong. Thank you, I dont like it when information I took for fact turns out to be false. From what I can see there seems to be a big divide on how accurate the KJV is. Some people claiming full of errors others claiming most accurate of all. Looks like more reading for me!

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I normally dont do this, but after you brought up hell I feel I must. The Jehovas Witnesses do not beleive in hell. Its the biggest difference between them and mainstream christianity that I can see. They see Gehenna (spelling may be wrong) as a real place on earth where the ancient Jewish people threw people as a punishment and it was a huge trash pit that was always burning. The modern word hell comes from the translation of the word Gehenna, at least thats what my wife told me LoL.

I think all the religions are kinda bull# but they carry truth in there. They all talk about the same negative things. About the same symbolic numbers. Stories are alot of times similar to eachother. Even the most ancient stories.

In my opinion all different civilizations got the same teachings with them.

Also about lucifer or satan or whatever. I think it's the same. They have to much similarities.

Also I somehow have the feeling all those stories are bound to what the stars show us. Thats why all those religious calendars fit so nicely together.

a reply to: DeviantMortal

The Bible doesn't state that it is incorruptible.

Nor does it state that the Bible is more of a work of God than everything else.

a reply to: DeviantMortal

See, that's what I mean by spreading basically the same message, or close to it... All these religions differ in some way, but contain a similar message. In my opinion, those of us who believe in God live the way he wants us to live by the way we're taught. My way not be the same as your way, but we're both going to Heaven when we die......if that makes sense.

I was raised as a Southern Baptist and I know full well that some of the things I do would be looked down upon by a couple other religions out there. Things like cussing, or smoking (when I smoked) or getting a tattoo. Some people think those will put you in hell, we don't.

a reply to: chr0naut

The one thing I've always wondered, as my religion states that to get to Heaven, you must be baptized in the name of Jesus, is what happened to people prior to ~35 BC when they died? Back when everyone cursed Jupiter and Zeus for not helping them win a battle.

originally posted by: StephenHope
a reply to: DeviantMortal

in freemasonry the postle barnabas is satan and the father of the bible as part of the old trinity of father, mother and son.

The bible also calls him zeus, and the bible says that satan falls like lightning. Thats is why why when you listen to barack obamas speach backwards you can hear im say zeus. even barack obama means lightning. freemasons believe in transcendent gods through time so a thousand years of satan as the bible calls it is thousand year reich it is also a thousand incarnations of vishnu.

So if you want to spice it up Satan has been called many things of the milennias. The god of beginning, the god of truth, god of the northern magnetic pole, which the bible calls the 'way', god of fire, god of lightning, god the hyades cluster in the night sky,god of the tongue and mouth and much more.

If he existed he would instigate a revolution in america becaue it is so corrupt and beyond saving in order to bring freedom and democracy to stop america from policing the world and killing peope in the millions through famine and dictators, arming jihadists, wars etc. bye bye america nice knowing you, ps the devil told me so.

The Bible makes no mention of Zeus.

The Bible does not use the German word "reich".

Barnabas was elected to take the place of Judas as a disciple. There is nothing in the Bible that would indicate that Barnabas had seen Jesus, therefore, Barnabas was not an apostle by that definition.

Barnabas also lived thousands of years after Satan was first described in the Old Testament books. Satan was "the accuser", Barnabas didn't do that. For some idea of what Barnabas represented, read "Hebrews" in the New Testament. It is attributed to Barnabas.

originally posted by: LSU0408
The one thing I've always wondered, as my religion states that to get to Heaven, you must be baptized in the name of Jesus, is what happened to people prior to ~35 BC when they died? Back when everyone cursed Jupiter and Zeus for not helping them win a battle.

Initially Sheol was a resting place for all deceased. It was basically a replica of the world.

After Jesus rose from His tomb He took every good spirit with Him to a new paradise. All evil people were left behind in Sheol.

All life was also removed from Sheol including plants, blue sky, fresh air, animals etc transforming Sheol into the now sky-less Hell which is full of bubbling mud (excrement) pits where the Lord of the Flies uses live human bodies to feed his maggots before they grow into flies again.

What you said in the OP is very truthful. Satan would first try at the source.

There is no doubt about that. He has tried to hide history from the people so they don't know our true origins. So he has done a very good job of it. The Bible seems to be the only reliable source of true history. And it has been like that for thousands of years.

Archaeology may prove the Bible accurate at a certain point, but it has never proven it to be false.

During the "dark ages" when the Catholic Church basically ruled the western world, they refused to allow anyone to read a copy of the Bible that wasn't a part of the clergy, and refused to allow it to be translated. If you tried to get the Bible translated into the common tongue (and not Latin) you could be subject to death. And in fact many people died translating and reading the Bible.

Whole Empires have tried to stamp out the Bible. And yet it still exists.

And if you actually open up the Bible and read what it says, it condemns basically all of the teachings and traditions of the Catholic Church as false. There is a reason they did not want the common man to know it.

I consider myself a common man.

I know that the teaching of celibacy was prophecies in the Bible and it says that it would be a teaching of demons:

(1 Timothy 4:1, 4) . . .However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons. . .They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving .


See the power of knowing God's word. You can see the outright hypocrisy and lies the Church is based on that is totally against the Bible. And that is just a start. (Notice there we see the teaching to avoid certain foods at certain times too is not Godly or Biblical, the Catholic Church does that as well - I know people like to call it the RCC or Roman Catholic Church).

Take another example. The separation of the clergy from the laity in Christendom. Not only the Catholic Church does this, the Greek Orthodox, the Russian Orthodox, and Protestants do this as well.

No where is a separation of a clergy and a laity taught in Scripture.

In fact look what Jesus stated:

(Matthew 23:9-12) . . .Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.  Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among you must be your minister. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

The Christian congregation would NOT have a separation between leaders and followers. No one in the congregation should be called a spiritual father, or spiritual leader, because ONLY ONE is, and that is Jehovah God, and one leader, the Christ. The title Pope literally means Papa, or Father, in English.

The very title of the Pope, and the other titles and robes and vestments, and the elevation of the clergy over a laity is anti-Christian, forbidden by Jesus Christ the founder of Christianity.

I could go on here for a very long time about how the Bible exposes so so so many teachings and practices of Christendom.

You don't think Satan tried to hide all of that?

People like Willilam Tyndale and John Wycliff gave their lives to help translate the Bible in our modern language of English so we could read the truths about God's word.

And only in Holy Scripture is Satan revealed. When Jesus came to earth he fully exposed him for the liar and fraud he is, and told us that he is the ruler of the world. No one would realize that today if it were not for God's word. Certainly Satan would have wanted to have that hidden. I mean he has done it so well in all other religions and practices and beliefs. Only God's word exposes him to the world for who he really is.

So it is very obvious that Jehovah the true God has NOT permitted Satan to corrupt his word.

True there have been egregious and false statements added into the Bible by certain charlatans. One of them being in 1 John to try and uphold the pagan and unholy doctrine of the Trinity. But the ancient texts available prove those additions to be false, and trustworthy translators have corrected those errors (see the New World Translation for a good example).

Then we have historic records themsleves.

In the late 1940's early 1950's what is now known as the Dead Sea Scrolls were uncovered hidden in caves. Some of those scrolls, such as one containing the complete book of Isaiah dated back to the 3rd Century B. C. E. Over a thousand years older the the oldest known manuscripts up to that point.

What would be found comparing these ancient texts to the ones a thousand years more recent? Was there truly a corruption of God's word, and additions and changes that many people over and over claim happened over the centuries?

No indeed! But in fact they were almost identical, aside from a few grammatical errors that had slipped in during those thousand years.

Now those scrolls are over 2,300 years old. There were no changes such as the critics falsely claimed. Here is tangible, verifiable proof that God has preserved his word faithfully for us in the time in which we live.

In fact it could be impossible otherwise. For he promised that it would be that way:

(Isaiah 30:21) . . .And your own ears will hear a word behind you saying, “This is the way. Walk in it,” in case you should go to the right or in case you should go to the left.

This "word" from behind us, is God's Holy Scripture, written beforehand, for our instruction. It was promised to be there for you and me. And it is.

There is much more proof that the Holy Scriptures have been preserved faithfully for us. Your wife does not just believe it because she is a Jehovah's Witness. She is a Jehovah's Witness because she believes God's word is true. And has solid proof of it.

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: chr0naut

The one thing I've always wondered, as my religion states that to get to Heaven, you must be baptized in the name of Jesus, is what happened to people prior to ~35 BC when they died? Back when everyone cursed Jupiter and Zeus for not helping them win a battle.

Reading back through the Old Testament, there were people who seemed to have great faith in God and, even though they didn't know much about God and had not the slightest concept of Jesus, God considered their faith and "accounted it as righteousness" (that is; fully compliant with all of God's laws).

I believe God is loving and has written His truths into our hearts, regardless of our education or circumstance. He will judge, but compassionately.

a reply to: DeviantMortal

It occurs to me that the process of "corrupting" scripture would be a difficult task as the believers are the ones making the copies and are the ones distributing them. There are already lots of copies and they are revered and "kept" by believers.

Perhaps, it would be easier to repeatedly highlight only small, out of context snippets from the Bible and build whole dodgy edifices of doctrine upon the slimmest of bases. In this way, you could prevent the general public from reading the whole Bible, thinking that they already "know" what is in it, so they never actually read it.

Hey it's only a book, smaller than War & Peace or the Harry Potter series. You could read through the whole thing in a few days, but how many actually do so?

a reply to: chr0naut

I don't think its so much bible re-writers were trying to corrupt the book, but making slight mistakes and their own interpretation while re-writing the book.

I do think, however, that certain scriptures were purposely left out of the book.

originally posted by: DeviantMortal
a reply to: Lazarus Short

I normally dont do this, but after you brought up hell I feel I must. The Jehovas Witnesses do not beleive in hell. Its the biggest difference between them and mainstream christianity that I can see. They see Gehenna (spelling may be wrong) as a real place on earth where the ancient Jewish people threw people as a punishment and it was a huge trash pit that was always burning. The modern word hell comes from the translation of the word Gehenna, at least thats what my wife told me LoL.

I see Gehenna in that sense as well. When Jesus talked about "if thine eye offends thee..." I think it makes a whole lot more sense to think He was warning that it was better to lose an eye or hand or foot, than to let that member lead you into sin, for which you risked being put to death and have your body shamefully burned in Gehenna. Thinking it means Hell brings in a lot of non-Biblical baggage. Much of that baggage involves words translated as "Hell" which, however, meant something else. Hell is a 404.