Destruction of Israel (not peace) - The common goal of Hamas and BDS

a reply to: MaxMech

If you are incapable of discussing peace, then you really can't contribute anything to the discussion. Just save yourself the effort of typing.

There, the typical pro Israel response, either accept our diatribe or shut up. Good thing theres a comments section below the Internet.

Doesn't that just piss you off?

Making peace is different than endlessly talking peace. Any 'deal' the devil offers isn't.

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: UnBreakable
a reply to: MaxMech

Just a warning. You're going to get skewered by the usual Palestinian apologists on here. Because, you know, all Jews are bad, all Palestinians good (even though other ME countries want nothing to do with them, except using them as pawns against Israel).

I just love it, when a person walks into a room, punch the first guy he sees and then says "watch out, soon people will come in here and start punching people"

thanks for the warning, now we know you want to pick a fight - good luck

Uh, I didn't punch the first guy I saw, I just warned them they were going to get punched. But now I know exactly where you stand.

whatever lies your gonna tell yourself, to fell better, thats fine with me

Coming from someone with 0 flags, I 'fell better' already.

Childish argument. The Israel Palestine issue has many sides, none of them are relevant to how may 'stars+flags' someone has.

originally posted by: ted4d

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: UnBreakable
a reply to: MaxMech

Just a warning. You're going to get skewered by the usual Palestinian apologists on here. Because, you know, all Jews are bad, all Palestinians good (even though other ME countries want nothing to do with them, except using them as pawns against Israel).

I just love it, when a person walks into a room, punch the first guy he sees and then says "watch out, soon people will come in here and start punching people"

thanks for the warning, now we know you want to pick a fight - good luck

Uh, I didn't punch the first guy I saw, I just warned them they were going to get punched. But now I know exactly where you stand.

whatever lies your gonna tell yourself, to fell better, thats fine with me

Coming from someone with 0 flags, I 'fell better' already.

Childish argument. The Israel Palestine issue has many sides, none of them are relevant to how may 'stars+flags' someone has.

...and to add, as you're being assine, the word is FEEL, not FELL - get a dictionary and learn some argument reasoning instead of taking the worst option, commenting on how may flags someone has.

originally posted by: ted4d

originally posted by: ted4d

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: UnBreakable
a reply to: MaxMech

Just a warning. You're going to get skewered by the usual Palestinian apologists on here. Because, you know, all Jews are bad, all Palestinians good (even though other ME countries want nothing to do with them, except using them as pawns against Israel).

I just love it, when a person walks into a room, punch the first guy he sees and then says "watch out, soon people will come in here and start punching people"

thanks for the warning, now we know you want to pick a fight - good luck

Uh, I didn't punch the first guy I saw, I just warned them they were going to get punched. But now I know exactly where you stand.

whatever lies your gonna tell yourself, to fell better, thats fine with me

Coming from someone with 0 flags, I 'fell better' already.

Childish argument. The Israel Palestine issue has many sides, none of them are relevant to how may 'stars+flags' someone has.

...and to add, as you're being assine, the word is FEEL, not FELL - get a dictionary and learn some argument reasoning instead of taking the worst option, commenting on how may stars someone has.

Hey Jackwagon, I was using the same misspelled word that was used in the reply criticizing me. The person was getting personal so I pulled the flag card. I see you're contributing a substantive argument too. Birds of a feather....

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: ted4d

originally posted by: ted4d

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: UnBreakable
a reply to: MaxMech

Just a warning. You're going to get skewered by the usual Palestinian apologists on here. Because, you know, all Jews are bad, all Palestinians good (even though other ME countries want nothing to do with them, except using them as pawns against Israel).

I just love it, when a person walks into a room, punch the first guy he sees and then says "watch out, soon people will come in here and start punching people"

thanks for the warning, now we know you want to pick a fight - good luck

Uh, I didn't punch the first guy I saw, I just warned them they were going to get punched. But now I know exactly where you stand.

whatever lies your gonna tell yourself, to fell better, thats fine with me

Coming from someone with 0 flags, I 'fell better' already.

Childish argument. The Israel Palestine issue has many sides, none of them are relevant to how may 'stars+flags' someone has.

...and to add, as you're being assine, the word is FEEL, not FELL - get a dictionary and learn some argument reasoning instead of taking the worst option, commenting on how may stars someone has.

Hey Jackwagon, I was using the same misspelled word that was used in the reply criticizing me. The person was getting personal so I pulled the flag card. I see you're contributing a substantive argument too. Birds of a feather....

Ok, I understand. Arguing how many flags someone has, is in fact valid in the Israel/Palestine argument, my mistake.

originally posted by: dashen

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: dashen


BTW…another fallacy. carpet bombing never works.

It works on Dresden it would work on Gaza

Hi mods. Just a simple question regarding the message by dashen quoted above:

Is it possible now to call for genocide in ATS forums?

So, would it also possible to call for the carpet bombing, let's say, of Tel Aviv, which undoubtedlly would also end the conflict?

There, the typical pro Israel response, either accept our diatribe or shut up. Good thing theres a comments section below the Internet.

You can dismiss me as a "typical pro Israel" but the only thing I'm 'pro' about, is peace.
I didn't asked you to accept anything or to shut up. Just to save yourself the effort. As I can't see how a person who is incapable of discussing the 'peace option' can contribute anything to the discussion that is going on here.

The so-called "conflict" in Israel/Palestine is just an unfinished process of colonization which began at the end of 19th century. That process found heavy opposition in the native population of the area from the very beginning, from farms to cities, from Christians to Muslims. It is well documented and I will start a thread on it if I find the time and have the energy.

The agent of this process was, and still is, the Zionist political movement. It's not the Jews to be blamed. It's the Zionists. Zionism. Most of the Zionists of this world are not of Jewish religion.

A Zionist is someone who 1) agrees with the idea of building a Jewish state -for many of the first Zionists not necessarily in Palestine, as you may know- and 2) (this is REALLY IMPORTANT) who agrees on implementing all the measures required to ensure the predominance of the Jewish majority within the state: judicial, political, military, religious measures or whatever.

That is, to ensure the predominance of the correct ethnic-religious group (Jews) over the other non-correct ethnic-religious groups (non-Jews).

This is the political system set in motion by the Zionist political movement and the very system that the native population of the area have been enduring and resisting for so many years.

originally posted by: valleean

originally posted by: dashen

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: dashen


BTW…another fallacy. carpet bombing never works.

It works on Dresden it would work on Gaza

So, would it also possible to call for the carpet bombing, let's say, of Tel Aviv, which undoubtedlly would also end the conflict?

Exactly. You're pointing out the reason Israel acts like it does. They're in a region where there's 16 ME countries with 411 million Arabs wanting to extinguish 1 small country with 6.1 million Jews. But that's why the Arabs don't act. It would be mutually assured destruction. They know Israel will take the whole ME down with them if they try to take Israel down.

originally posted by: ted4d

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: ted4d

originally posted by: ted4d

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: UnBreakable
a reply to: MaxMech

Just a warning. You're going to get skewered by the usual Palestinian apologists on here. Because, you know, all Jews are bad, all Palestinians good (even though other ME countries want nothing to do with them, except using them as pawns against Israel).

I just love it, when a person walks into a room, punch the first guy he sees and then says "watch out, soon people will come in here and start punching people"

thanks for the warning, now we know you want to pick a fight - good luck

Uh, I didn't punch the first guy I saw, I just warned them they were going to get punched. But now I know exactly where you stand.

whatever lies your gonna tell yourself, to fell better, thats fine with me

Coming from someone with 0 flags, I 'fell better' already.

Childish argument. The Israel Palestine issue has many sides, none of them are relevant to how may 'stars+flags' someone has.

...and to add, as you're being assine, the word is FEEL, not FELL - get a dictionary and learn some argument reasoning instead of taking the worst option, commenting on how may stars someone has.

Hey Jackwagon, I was using the same misspelled word that was used in the reply criticizing me. The person was getting personal so I pulled the flag card. I see you're contributing a substantive argument too. Birds of a feather....

Ok, I understand. Arguing how many flags someone has, is in fact valid in the Israel/Palestine argument, my mistake.

Now you get it. To extrapolate, their replies (i.e. arguments) are so shallow and without substance, that no one warrants them worthy to even bother giving a flag.

a reply to: MaxMech

Actually I am not sure Israeli's and Palestinians could live side by side whether they had separate states or not.

Western countries are getting a very rude wake-up call with the influx of Muslims and they are having to face up to the fact that they have no structures in place to deal with people whose ideology is so different they won't and probably can't fit in . I suspect this also applies to Israel also.

So in fact unless Israel kills off all the Palestinians or gets them to leave by the policies they are following today, there is actually no hope for the area whatsoever - merely just a waiting time bomb. People from both sides will be criticising this but I doubt its far off the mark of reality as Israel has been a ticking instability bomb for some time now, we just don't accept that there is no solution and never was.

a reply to: UnBreakable

What on earth does the argument Boohoo Israel is situated in "a region that has 16 ME countries with 411 million Arabs living there" mean?

The Jews wanted to go there and were indeed offered other places they could have settled peacefully. So leave out the boohooing and wailing because they knew perfectly well who their neighbours were going to be before they went in 1948 and their earlier influxes.

This is never going to work out and the numbers are speaking for themselves. If Europe falls and becomes muslim as is clearly the intention of the muslim immigrants a huge chunk of support for Israel will go over night and after the fall of the EU, America will definitely be next. So perhaps if all goes to the muslim plan the sensational headline of this thread will actually become reality.

Just so you know I do not support islam in any way shape or form and certainly wouldn't wish it on any country that didn't want to be an islamic state or its people. However the Palestinians were living there for a very long time and a legal protectorate which stopped it becoming a country, which had been in the pipeline for that area is the reason for the situation the Palestinians find themselves in now, herded into areas like Gaza where its infrastructure has been completely undermined by the Israeli's. I would't like to be Palestinian - would you if you thought about it?

originally posted by: valleean

originally posted by: dashen

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: dashen


BTW…another fallacy. carpet bombing never works.

It works on Dresden it would work on Gaza

Hi mods. Just a simple question regarding the message by dashen quoted above:

Is it possible now to call for genocide in ATS forums?

So, would it also possible to call for the carpet bombing, let's say, of Tel Aviv, which undoubtedlly would also end the conflict?

You people are prrtty free and loose with the term genocide when it comes to Palestinians .
Plus my statement is taken totally out of context that carpet bombing is useless

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: UnBreakable

What on earth does the argument Boohoo Israel is situated in "a region that has 16 ME countries with 411 million Arabs living there" mean?

The Jews wanted to go there and were indeed offered other places they could have settled peacefully. So leave out the boohooing and wailing because they knew perfectly well who their neighbours were going to be before they went in 1948 and their earlier influxes.

This is never going to work out and the numbers are speaking for themselves. If Europe falls and becomes muslim as is clearly the intention of the muslim immigrants a huge chunk of support for Israel will go over night and after the fall of the EU, America will definitely be next. So perhaps if all goes to the muslim plan the sensational headline of this thread will actually become reality.

Just so you know I do not support islam in any way shape or form and certainly wouldn't wish it on any country that didn't want to be an islamic state or its people. However the Palestinians were living there for a very long time and a legal protectorate which stopped it becoming a country, which had been in the pipeline for that area is the reason for the situation the Palestinians find themselves in now, herded into areas like Gaza where its infrastructure has been completely undermined by the Israeli's. I would't like to be Palestinian - would you if you thought about it?

No one is boohooing or wailing except the Palestinians when they get their asses kicked.

originally posted by: MaxMech
a reply to: amazing

The block everything any Palestinian does for peace.

Have any examples?

In fact, when was the last time an Israeli government official tried to come up with a solution, make peace, come up with a program, anything. They never do.

Posting this for the third time in this thread...
Abbas admits he rejected 2008 peace offer from Olmert
Just lookup the history of negotiations between Israel and the PO, you will find many examples there.

If you really want peace you don't just wait for the other guy. You make it, you bring in other partners and world leaders, you research it, you figure out security, make deals with Jordan and Egypt. You work hard at it. Israel has had decades to work these things out, yet they do not.

Look pal, you need less propaganda and more Wikipedia in your life.
Israel signed a peace deal with both Egypt and Jordan. These countries are now at peace with Israel and recognize it's right to exist.
In 93 the Oslo agreements were signed which gave the PO more power than they ever had.
In 2005 Israel left Gaza and evicted 21 settlements from that area (8,600 people).
Tell me what Israel got back from the Palestinians except call for destruction?

If I want endless war and Hamas to recruit better, I stonewall all peace efforts and keep them economically challenged.
Hmmmm...

Or maybe Hamas wants to keep receiving millions in support funds from Qatar and Iran. If peace would be achieved there will be no more enemy to fight and thus Hamas would stop to exist. Can't have that.
Hmmmm...

You're still missing the main points.

Israel holds most of the cards in this area. They have all the military and economic strength and control much of life in the Palestinian territories. They've also had decades to work on this. If the Israeli government wanted peace, they would have it. They don't because if they keep the situation relatively unstable, they get a lot of Military support from around the world.

Remember that Israel has a pretty good economy yet still receives over $3 billion dollars in aid from just the US each year. Much of that Military. Also keep in mind that Israel is basically surrounded by US bases and that Jordan is a peaceful ally in the region. Egypt is a peaceful ally.

Remember the days of the PLO? The Palestinians have generally moved on to more peaceful efforts now, despite Hamas and some other radical groups in the territories. Shouldn't Israel want to keep that trend going? Yet....they continue to stop all efforts for the Palistinians to make ground, in the UN and the Hague and any other international body. Just google it. Here's one article there are literally thousands of them over the internet.

www.cnn.com...

The truth is really simple. There are a large number of Palestinians persuing, peaceful, legal, real, negotiations and diplomacy. To stop Hamas, just like with ISIS, you must first find out how they recruit. One reason is economic. Basic sociology. Bad economies produce more crime...youth with no hope and no future become radicalized. I'm still not sure what the argument here is? The golden rule, treat people as you would like to be treated, treat people with dignity, when someone wishes to engage in real discussion, take that as a good sign.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: MaxMech

Actually I am not sure Israeli's and Palestinians could live side by side whether they had separate states or not.

Western countries are getting a very rude wake-up call with the influx of Muslims and they are having to face up to the fact that they have no structures in place to deal with people whose ideology is so different they won't and probably can't fit in . I suspect this also applies to Israel also.

So in fact unless Israel kills off all the Palestinians or gets them to leave by the policies they are following today, there is actually no hope for the area whatsoever - merely just a waiting time bomb. People from both sides will be criticising this but I doubt its far off the mark of reality as Israel has been a ticking instability bomb for some time now, we just don't accept that there is no solution and never was.

Then how do you explain the nearly two million israeli arabs who occupy positions in governent, military, and commerce?

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: yuppa

Palestine was a British protectorate.

You love facts but you seem to forget that the Kingdom of Judah was captured by Nebuchadnezzar and the king killed.
What would happen if every ancient kingdom reverted back to its supposed start the world would be in chaos. What you had you lost. You might have barged back into Palestine and indeed by slowly killing off the native people but that's all you are doing.

Once again it wasnt a NATION or even a STATE it was a AREA,and not recognized as anything for anyone. And Since you say it was controlled by britain then why make such a ruckus about the "palestinians" who included JEWS BTW and seek to toss them out because the arabs thought they would win against them and take over what they owned and left to return with a army of arabs. Who lost then whine about how unfair it is.

Using you rlogic the Arabs lost their claims when they left so they do not deserve it back. THE current generation of Palis are native to gaza and west bank. Israel tried to return these areas. The countries arguing for their land back turned around and said we dont want it a slong as those people are there.

So if you want to blame someone blame the surrounding countries for their utter stupidity and refusal to take back control of those Areas.

originally posted by: MaxMech
HAMAS

Hamas said it rejects the France-sponsored international peace conference between the Palestinians and the Israelis, which is scheduled to take place on May 30 in Paris.
“We consider it a waste of time"
- Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri
Source

“Israel will exist, and will continue to exist, until Islam abolishes it…. There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.”
- Hamas Charter
Source

BDS

“Bringing down Israel will really benefit everyone in the world and everyone in society, particularly workers,”
Source

“We’re resisting colonialism in Palestine, and colonialism entails all of occupied Palestine, from Haifa, to Jerusalem, to Ramallah…”
Source

- Lara Kiswani, BDS activist

“You can’t have coexistence with Zionists. Their purpose of Zionism is discrimination, elimination and ethnic cleansing of a group of people, so if you want to talk about coexistence, I’m not talking with you because you’re going to try to kill me. I’m Muslim.”
- Azka Fayyaz, BDS leader
Source

“[Jews] did not suffer in Arab countries. There were no pogroms. There was no persecution.”
Source

“You cannot reconcile the right of return for refugees with a two state solution….a return for refugees would end Israel’s existence as a Jewish state. A two-state solution was never moral and it’s no longer working.”
Source

“I clearly do not buy into the two-state solution.”
Source

- Omar Barghouti, founding member of BDS

Hamas is recognized by the international community as a barbaric terror organization.
BDS, among other things is gathering donations in campuses all over the US, which are then transferred to Hamas. Source
And why wouldn't they? They do have the same end goal after all.
It's funny that the same students pay to arm the Israeli side via taxes, so in some way, both sides are financed by the the american student.

My question is: Why to commit yourself, your kids, your grandkids and all future generations to a never ending war?
Two state solution is the last hope for Palestinians to ever have their own state and some degree of freedom (let's face it, no one can be free under an Islamic fundamentalist government like Hamas). So why to trow it away? For a hope that all 8 million Israelis will abandon their homes and just leave?
Anybody with half a brain understands that this will never happen, Israelis will fight as they always did. They just don't have anywhere else to go.
The Palestinians are in the same position. Thus, the two state solution is the only way to end the fighting.
So again, if you have any concern about the future of your people, why would you consider any opportunity to discuss peace as a "waste of time"?
Regarding BDS - if you are refusing to talk about coexistence of two states, you are incapable to live in peace.

Because Hamas, PLO, and all Islamic organisations are intrinsiclly anti-semite and racist - thats why. Now this raocist ideology is infesting universities all over the West.
Racism is racism. Anti-semitism is by definition racist. All these Lefty student groups that think they are so "progressive" are in reality promoting racism, hatred, and terrorism. A sad and rather pathetic state of afairs. The regressive left have become the extreme right wing - and they dont even realise it.

a reply to: valleean

The whole concept of Zionism is just racist BS. The whole "Zionist" conspiracy theory was debunked decades ago. Its the muslims who try to keep bammering away with this nonsense. Gee, why would that be?

originally posted by: jimbo999
a reply to: valleean

The whole concept of Zionism is just racist BS. The whole "Zionist" conspiracy theory was debunked decades ago. Its the muslims who try to keep bammering away with this nonsense. Gee, why would that be?

There is a flagrant ignorance on your reply (apart from arrogance, but we already know that ignorance and arrogance walks hand in hand, right?)

Who is talking about a "Zionist conspiracy" (which is total BS, I agree)?

I am talking about Zionism, about the Zionist political movement who originated in Europe by the late 19th century mainly in response to the blatant Anti-Semitism of those ages.

You don't know Theodor Herzl, but he was the founder of ...................................
In August 1897, in Basle (Switzerland), the First ....................... Congress took place
In that very Congress, Theodor Herzl founded the .............. Organization, which in 1960 was renamed the World ................ Organization.
In the same Congress, it was oficially declared that: "The aim of ................. is to create for the Jewish people a home in Eretz­ Israel secured by law."

Can you fill out the gaps, jimbo999?

If you can't, please check this link of a very pro-Israel website: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

BTW, this website is promoting itself like this: "Everything you need to know from Anti-Semitism to Zionism".

Jimbo999, just a tip: if you go to Israel, do not tell Israelis that they support a non-existent political movement. They will be a bit upset, believe me.

Remember: the non-existent status applies just to Palestinians.