Destruction of Israel (not peace) - The common goal of Hamas and BDS

a reply to: dashen



They'd better learn geography imo.
Can we have some nationwide statistics about population density from Israel ?

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
I often wonder about non isrealis who are pro Isreal.

Im curious OP, if some foreign power suddenly decided your country now belonged to the descendants of the people who (allegedly) lived there 2000 years ago based on a fairy tail, would you just up and leave or would you fight?

In my opinion neither side is right in their actions but the Isrealis seem to be the more barbaric of the 2

It isn't a fairy tale (note the spelling) it is strongly historically attested that the Hebrew people had been living in the area we now call Israel, for more than 3,500 years. Archaeologists actually call the Iron Age in the Levant region, the "Israelite period".

How could the ancestors of the Israelis be "alleged", if they didn't exist, how are their children real?

Both Palestinians and the Israelis have valid claims to the same land.

As to the "viciousness" of the Israeli's, I would guess that it is in reaction to the suicide bombings, rocketing and other terrorist actions that the Palestinians, and very particularly Hamas, have done.

If you knew your history, you'd know that the non-Israeli's were offered a deal to have their own territories but they had to share them with the Israeli's. The non-Israeli's absolutely refused to share and withdrew from the negotiations. They are the cause of their own strife and denied their own statehood out of spite. (Read up a bit regarding the history surrounding the Balfour Declaration).

originally posted by: flice
a reply to: MaxMech

The notion that ANYONE has a right to a specific part of the world based on scriptures written by ignorants 1000s of years ago is down right psychotic.

So yes... If you think that jews have a right to Israel far more than any other human being on this Earth, you are beyond repair and I honestly believe you should be euthanised humanely for the sake of the human race.

I agree.

But the Jewish claim to Israel is NOT based upon scriptures.

The scriptures just agree.

And the Arabs have no claim to the land, only the true Palestinians.

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

Im curious OP, if some foreign power suddenly decided your country now belonged to the descendants of the people who (allegedly) lived there 2000 years ago based on a fairy tail,

Except for that pesky thing called Archaeology, and artifacts that backs up their presence in that "fairy Tale"

I know right! Darn History and and its facts!

LoL all those stars and not one person stop to think about it, thats hilarious

So in your opinion should Australia be given back to the Aboriginals and Nth America given back to the Native Americans?
Archaelogically both of those people have a stronger claim than the Jews do over Isreal and until recently both had undisputed reign over their territories.

Or does the fact they dont have a book describing a megalomaniac in the clouds who said the land was theirs mean they get shafted?

It has nothing to do with the book. That is YOUR irreligious belief.

The Jews had just been through an attempt at genocide in Europe and Stalinist Russia looked to be heading in the same direction. They wanted to get outta there, urgently!

The victors in the 2nd World War (under the auspices of the UN) looked for a place where these guys could go to be safe. They determined that the place they came from historically was probably the best, considering that migration back to the British prefecture had already started without anyone's say so.

The area was also sparsely populated (because it was desertified).

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: gladtobehere

Can we have some nationwide statistics about population density from Israel ?
You know ... how do they count people ... and on which surface they live ...

Thx in advance.

Why don't you look up Wikipedia?

No one's hiding it.

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
a reply to: MaxMech

It is crazy to keep fighting a war you can never win. I'ts time to think about peace for the future generations. 
For the sake of the argument I will agree that the state of Israel was established by force/war. Just remember that every country in history was established by the exact same way. Even the one you are living in

So are you saying that regardless of right or wrong Palestinians should just accept they wont win and give in?
Basically your saying might is right, is this correct?

Coz if youre not saying that why dont the Isrealis stop fighting?
If all the bible brained pro zionists are to be believed then the Jews are the sensible and good guys in this scenario and it would make more sense for them to put down their weapons 1st.

P.s Im Australian and can proudly say my vountry was formed via a vote and not a war or revolt. Look it up

Perhaps you should read up on the Aboriginal opposition to the invasion of Australia by the white settlers. Pemulwy would be a good starting place.

And all the really obscene things that the settlers instigated that caused the near total genocide of estimated millions of (mostly peaceful) Aboriginals across the continent.

They started by declaring Australia 'unpopulated' ("Terra Nullius", in legal terms), justifying their claiming of land and 'clearing' it of anything that impeded the acquisition.

Siphilis and malnutrition, directly attributable to the settlers, killed most of the Aboriginies.

Then there were things like the 1st November 1828 declaration of martial law against "the Aboriginal people in the Settled Districts", as "open enemies of the King", which among other things led to the "Black Line" attempt at genocide in Tasmania and later the actual genocide of the Tasmanian Aboriginies (Robert Hughes AO described it as "the only true genocide in English colonial history").

Things like the "Stolen Generations" where children were removed from their families by force and usually either pressed into service of the white 'land owners' or institutionalized and which continued into the 1970's.

Australia did not allow all Aboriginals to vote until the 1962 under the Menzies government.

The destruction of Israel and returning the occupied land of the illegal state to Palestine is a precursor to any form of peace in the Middle East. Not that there will be as long as the Saudis, their gulf puppets and Zionist friends are around anyway.

The region needs another Nasser.

a reply to: Ohanka

According to your logic all the arab states are illegal as they were created by the league of nations after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire

There is no real possibility of peace in the Middle East.

The ongoing plan to destroy that culture needs all the war and conflict it is possible to create.

The worse things can be made, the safer Israel is.

By allowing the religious extremists to spread their poison millions of people can be successfully demonised.

One by one their countries can be destabilised, subjected to "regime change" and generally reduced to the point where basic survival becomes difficult.

By exploiting "theological" and cultural differences they can even be manipulated to destroy each other.

The lower their level of secular and scientific education, the easier this task is.

If their youth can be led to a total lack of historical understanding and engagement in a bloodthirsty cult the chance of a truly capable thinker emerging to provide leadership is minimal.

Israel is safer today than at any time in the past.....

This thread makes me laugh.

You don't seriously, see the Israeli stonewall for peace?

The block everything any Palestinian does for peace. They Block all efforts at the UN, all efforts at the Hague, all efforts anywhere. In fact, when was the last time an Israeli government official tried to come up with a solution, make peace, come up with a program, anything. They never do.

The Israeli government keeps taking land and treating most Palestinians like Dogs, obstructing peace and blocking all peaceful efforts.

If you really want peace you don't just wait for the other guy. You make it, you bring in other partners and world leaders, you research it, you figure out security, make deals with Jordan and Egypt. You work hard at it. Israel has had decades to work these things out, yet they do not. If I want endless war and Hamas to recruit better, I stonewall all peace efforts and keep them economically challenged. Hmmmm...

originally posted by: amazing
This thread makes me laugh.

You don't seriously, see the Israeli stonewall for peace?

The block everything any Palestinian does for peace. They Block all efforts at the UN, all efforts at the Hague, all efforts anywhere. In fact, when was the last time an Israeli government official tried to come up with a solution, make peace, come up with a program, anything. They never do.

The Israeli government keeps taking land and treating most Palestinians like Dogs, obstructing peace and blocking all peaceful efforts.

If you really want peace you don't just wait for the other guy. You make it, you bring in other partners and world leaders, you research it, you figure out security, make deals with Jordan and Egypt. You work hard at it. Israel has had decades to work these things out, yet they do not. If I want endless war and Hamas to recruit better, I stonewall all peace efforts and keep them economically challenged. Hmmmm...

Yep, all Israel's fault. Israel doesn't want peace, only Palestinians want peace. Maybe if the Palestinians quit acting like dogs, they wouldn't be treated like dogs. Even the surrounding Arab countries don't like them.

Hamas does not want peace with Israel

For those who assume Hamas’s war against Israel is aimed merely at recovering the territories occupied by Israel since the 1967 Six Day War, and for those incurable optimists, especially in Ireland, who urge Israel to “engage” with Hamas as the Irish and British governments engaged with the IRA in the 1990s, the words of the Hamas chief should be a final wake-up call.

Even more than Hamas’s rocket barrage last month, what should have shocked anyone who believes in the peace process was the fact that neither PA chairman Mahmoud Abbas nor any of his officials condemned Hamas for instigating the latest conflict. Indeed, the senior PA negotiator Nabil Shaath (a man who paraded his moderate credentials in Ireland last year as he canvassed Irish support for the unilateral Palestinian statehood bid at the UN) appeared in Gaza on Nov 22 at another Hamas “victory” rally. Instead of urging moderation, Shaath praised the “martyrs” and their “resistance” and spoke of a “100-year war” to conquer “Jerusalem and Palestine in its entirety”.

www.irishexaminer.com...

originally posted by: amazing
This thread makes me laugh.

You don't seriously, see the Israeli stonewall for peace?

The block everything any Palestinian does for peace. They Block all efforts at the UN, all efforts at the Hague, all efforts anywhere. In fact, when was the last time an Israeli government official tried to come up with a solution, make peace, come up with a program, anything. They never do.

The Israeli government keeps taking land and treating most Palestinians like Dogs, obstructing peace and blocking all peaceful efforts.

If you really want peace you don't just wait for the other guy. You make it, you bring in other partners and world leaders, you research it, you figure out security, make deals with Jordan and Egypt. You work hard at it. Israel has had decades to work these things out, yet they do not. If I want endless war and Hamas to recruit better, I stonewall all peace efforts and keep them economically challenged. Hmmmm...

This actual palestinian strongly disagrees with your fictional assessment

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

So are you saying that regardless of right or wrong Palestinians should just accept they wont win and give in?

Not give in. Accept peace.
Give the next generations a chance for a normal life. This can only be achieved by the two state solution.
What is your alternative? To fight until Israel falls? Do you really think that this would ever happen? And if so, how many should die in the process by your opinion? Why would you expect Israelis to put down their weapons when their enemies explicitly say the want to destroy them?
Instead of justifying the fighting try to come up with way peace can be achieved.

Coz if youre not saying that why dont the Isrealis stop fighting? If all the bible brained pro zionists are to be believed then the Jews are the sensible and good guys in this scenario and it would make more sense for them to put down their weapons 1st.

This is basically happens every day. Israel can wipe out the Palestinians in one week. But they don't as it's not their goal.
The IDF only response with force when a terror attack is executed by the Palestinian terror organizations.
Now you can continue to rationalise these terror attacks as resistance.

P.s Im Australian and can proudly say my vountry was formed via a vote and not a war or revolt. Look it up

I think you are the one that should be doing the looking up part...
List of massacres of Indigenous Australians

a reply to: intrptr

the endless peace process doesn't work on me.

Right, so lets just kill each other.
If you are incapable of discussing peace, then you really can't contribute anything to the discussion. Just save yourself the effort of typing.

Whatever deal the UN, US or Israeli hi court offers is only distraction for the ongoing process of subjugation and or genocide.

If so, why Abbas rejected a chance for a state which included almost everything he wanted?
Abbas admits he rejected 2008 peace offer from Olmert

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

The casualties during 'Operation Protective Edge' were roughly over 2000 Palestinians (most of which were civilians), over 60 Israel troops and around 7 Israeli civilians.

Don't forget the 23 Gazans that were executed on the street by Hamas.

Gaza is still under siege, which is a war crime,

By Egypt as well. Don't suppose you have a problem with that...

Hamas are no longer the boogeymen the media played them out to be either.

Maybe you should stop watching the media.
Hamas is unanimously recognized as a terror organization. Lately by many Muslim countries.

And I always find it funny when pro-Israelis try and deal the Hamas want to kill all Jews crap

This is openly declared by Hamas leaders on any occasion.

I think it would take them over a thousand years to achieve it haha.

You are correct on that.

The Israeli media are as vile as their government,

How do you know? You watch it often?

Israel building their new homes on top of them until they reach the ultimate goal, reaching the coastline from Israel.

Israel is on the coast line...

a reply to: amazing

The block everything any Palestinian does for peace.

Have any examples?

In fact, when was the last time an Israeli government official tried to come up with a solution, make peace, come up with a program, anything. They never do.

Posting this for the third time in this thread...
Abbas admits he rejected 2008 peace offer from Olmert
Just lookup the history of negotiations between Israel and the PO, you will find many examples there.

If you really want peace you don't just wait for the other guy. You make it, you bring in other partners and world leaders, you research it, you figure out security, make deals with Jordan and Egypt. You work hard at it. Israel has had decades to work these things out, yet they do not.

Look pal, you need less propaganda and more Wikipedia in your life.
Israel signed a peace deal with both Egypt and Jordan. These countries are now at peace with Israel and recognize it's right to exist.
In 93 the Oslo agreements were signed which gave the PO more power than they ever had.
In 2005 Israel left Gaza and evicted 21 settlements from that area (8,600 people).
Tell me what Israel got back from the Palestinians except call for destruction?

If I want endless war and Hamas to recruit better, I stonewall all peace efforts and keep them economically challenged.
Hmmmm...

Or maybe Hamas wants to keep receiving millions in support funds from Qatar and Iran. If peace would be achieved there will be no more enemy to fight and thus Hamas would stop to exist. Can't have that.
Hmmmm...

a reply to: yuppa

Palestine was a British protectorate.

You love facts but you seem to forget that the Kingdom of Judah was captured by Nebuchadnezzar and the king killed.
What would happen if every ancient kingdom reverted back to its supposed start the world would be in chaos. What you had you lost. You might have barged back into Palestine and indeed by slowly killing off the native people but that's all you are doing.

a reply to: Shiloh7

What would happen if every ancient kingdom reverted back to its supposed start the world would be in chaos.

Exactly! This is why it's crazy to expect that Israel along with all of it's population will one day disappear out of existence, and the Palestinian people will establish a Muslim country on Israeli ruins.
The only logical (and within the realms of reality) solution is to live side by side.
Why then both Hamas and BDS oppose this notion?

We could kill them both and let god sort them out but what fun would that be.

originally posted by: chr0naut


Can we have some nationwide statistics about population density from Israel ?
You know ... how do they count people ... and on which surface they live ...

Thx in advance.


Why don't you look up Wikipedia?

No one's hiding it.

Can find proper detailed nationwide stats ... just when you look at surface area you have something that says : 20,770 / 22,072 km². And the first line on the 'Geography of Israel' article is a preliminary warning that the article is 'disputed'...