Islamist Turkey seizes ALL Christian churches in city and declares them 'state property'

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

No. I don't think a lot of people call him that.
I don't think many leaders are called that.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Perhaps Turkey is now thinking of not becoming part of the EU, simply waiting until it collapses under Islamist terrorism and will simply join the enlarged new Islamic block?

a reply to: TerryDon79

So, they took over the 6 churches that were left in the city?

So, 6 out of 6 sure sounds like ALL, to me! LOL.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: BO XIAN

Perhaps Turkey is now thinking of not becoming part of the EU, simply waiting until it collapses under Islamist terrorism and will simply join the enlarged new Islamic block?

That's an interesting hypothesis.

I don't think that Erdogan would be 'simply waiting until it collapses.'

I think he'd be manipulating things to try and become the Caliph of the 'new Islamic state.'

And that's why some folks think he might be the Anti-Christ. There's tons of similarities between the still-to-come Mahdi of Islam and the AC of the Bible.

I just don't think Erdogan is the guy.

a reply to: Phage

Sorry, I'm not tracking the reference to "call him that."

What 'that' are you referring to, please?

a reply to: BO XIAN

So, you have a packet of sweets with 20 in there when it was full. When there's 6 left you take them.

Did you take all the sweets or what was remaining?

You might argue that you took all the sweets that were remaining. You would be correct.

If you said you took all the sweets, you would be wrong by a count of 14.

What you need to remember is newspapers are there to sell newspapers. "They took the remaining 6 churches" doesn't sound as good or as eye catching as "They took all the churches".

a reply to: TerryDon79

Alternately

the bloke writing the headline could merely have been focused on the status quo AT THAT TIME.

At that time, there were 6 churches in the town, evidently.

If so, AT THAT TIME, Erdogan seized all the churches.

I realize your different values have some investment in framing it differently.

a reply to: BO XIAN

All people outside "their religion" are infidels and sub-human, so which news report is right or wrong is not the point. To take over religious property is unacceptable,period. In aech indonesia late last year, thousands of christian's fled for their lives when a mob of muslim radicals killed and burnt down their churches. In countries we speak of, government are NOT in control, as the true rulers are the islamic organisations,you beta believe it.

originally posted by: tommo39
a reply to: BO XIAN

All people outside "their religion" are infidels and sub-human, so which news report is right or wrong is not the point. To take over religious property is unacceptable,period. In aech indonesia late last year, thousands of christian's fled for their lives when a mob of muslim radicals killed and burnt down their churches. In countries we speak of, government are NOT in control, as the true rulers are the islamic organisations,you beta believe it.

INDEED. Sigh.

Of course, the oligarchy is not interested in publishing such truths widely, if at all.

Thankfully . . . the One above all is watching carefully . . . very carefully. And He knows the private thoughts and intents of EACH HEART involved.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Problem is is the newspaper is implying there were only ever 6 churches, if you go by the headline. The headline should read "Islamist Turkey seizes ALL remaining Christian and Catholic churches in city and declares them 'state property'"

Newspapers do it all the time. It's part of the business. When was the last time you heard "Train crash and 150 survived"? You don't. You only ever hear "Train crash and 150 dead, 20 injured".

I know it's semantics, but this is the reason I don't, generally, read newspapers.

ETA: I'll leave you to it. I was just picking up on the semantics of how the newspapers typically change information slightly to give a perception of it being worse than it is (not just this article). Not saying this isn't bad, but hopefully you know what I mean.

a reply to: BO XIAN

QUOTE "He knows the private thoughts and intents of EACH HEART involved." I understand were your coming from but my beliefs are not on your page, sorry mate....

a reply to: tommo39

No sweat.

We all write out of our own values and constructions on reality.

I find the diversity interesting.

Thanks for your kind reply.

No Churches are taken over by anyone .

This type of so called " News " are not even worthy of debate .

Here is a Christian MP from Turkey replies to NY Times ;

Last week on its editorial page The New York Times published one more article that says, "Stop President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
I say one more article because The New York Times is interested in and party to what is going on in Turkey as if it were an "opposition" Turkish newspaper.
I write the word opposition in quotes because being an opponent does not mean fighting for sovereignty. Going beyond the enemies of the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) and those of Erdoğan, The New York Times called NATO to duty.
While an almost democratic revolution has been sweeping the country for 12 years, why is there so much antipathy for a political party and its leader who saved the country from bankruptcy and from the brink of a civil war, made it the 16th biggest economy of the world, won nine independent elections and ensured the support of 52 percent of the country's electorate?
Persistently striving to misrepresent Turkey and Turkish politics by reversing what is happening in the country are not attributes of independent and objective journalism.
Is The New York Times trying to influence the elections in its own way or shaking a finger at Erdoğan by reversing everything in the country with a very persistent manner that cannot even be considered partial?

Do those who keep silent while people live in hell in Syria, the inhuman cruelty continues in Palestine and Mohammed Morsi, who was discharged from his office by a coup d'état, has been sentenced to death together with his friends see this country that is the only stable oasis in the region as a problem?

If they see Turkey as a problem, I believe this consideration is not an issue of democracy - it stems from the fact that Turkey has stopped acting as if it were a banana republic.

I have met a lot of foreign journalists who look down upon the Middle East as a category and who are ignorant and arrogant. The New York Times' behavior exceeds such ignorance. It is a conscious behavior and the desire to intervene draws one's attention.
Accused of abetting the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) and being a dictatorship, Turkey is subject to being put into sectarian parenthesis.
One cannot swing a dead cat without hitting falsified news and disinformation. This unjust treatment of the only stable Muslim country that could simultaneously negotiate and work with the West and Middle East cannot be the strategy of Western countries.
The people themselves will now decide who will take power in Turkey and how they will govern the country. Intervening in this country, creating a government and conducting operations on the country despite its people is no longer possible.
We will respect whatever decision the people make in the upcoming elections. The most fundamental rule of democracy is to respect the results of the ballot box. Renouncing the results of the ballot box, as is the case in Egypt, and playing with the fates of those countries through manipulation will bring good neither to those countries, the region nor the world.
Both The New York Times and those who regard the world as an area to be engineered should acknowledge that peace will come to the world only when will of the people takes power in those countries.
Now we need a more humanitarian realpolitik, a more humanitarian competition environment and a newer paradigm. A democratic revolution that is important both for Turkey's region and for the world has been put into action.
It is high time for the West to respect the Middle East and get used to an equal relationship. Using the discourse of democracy in order to manipulate democratic values and media endangers the future of these countries.

The decay of values brings downfall. I am warning as a friend who appreciates Western democracy

MARKAR ESAYAN - Turkish Christian MP
@markaresayan

Finland , Ukraine and Georgia are all Christian Nations and they are inviting Turkish Soldiers so that they can resist another Christian Nation's ( Russia ) desires to overtake their government.

To sum it up ; the News of Churces being taken by Erdogan is just a sensationalist crap-ola , nothing else .

Modern Turkey was pretty important back in the bible days for christians.

Brief description[edit] Two out of the five centers (Patriarchates) of the ancient Pentarchy are in Turkey: Constantinople (Istanbul) and Antioch (Antakya). Antioch was also the place where the followers of Jesus were called "Christians" for the first time in history, as well as being the site of one of the earliest and oldest surviving churches, established by Saint Peter himself. For a thousand years, the Hagia Sophia was the largest church in the world. Turkey is also home to the Seven Churches of Asia, where the Revelation to John was sent.

Apostle John is reputed to have taken Virgin Mary to Ephesus in western Turkey, where she spent the last days of her life in a small house, known as the House of the Virgin Mary, which still survives today and has been recognized as a holy site for pilgrimage by the Catholic and Orthodox churches, as well as being a Muslim shrine. The cave of the Seven Sleepers is also located in Ephesus. All of the first seven Ecumenical Councils which are recognized by both the Western and Eastern churches were held in present-day Turkey.

Of these, the Nicene Creed, declared with the First Council of Nicaea (İznik) in 325, is of utmost importance and has provided the essential definitions of present-day Christianity.

Today, however, Turkey has a smaller Christian percentage of its population than any of its neighbours, including Syria, Iraq and even Iran, due to the Assyrian Genocide, Armenian Genocide and Greek Genocide during and after WWI, and the subsequent large scale population transfers of Turkey's Christian population, most notably Greece, and the forced exodus of indigenous Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks and Georgians upon the breakup of the Ottoman Empire. This was followed by the continued emigration of most of the remaining indigenous Christians over the next century.

During the tumultuous period of the first world war and founding of the Turkish republic, up to 3 million indigenous Christians are alleged to have been killed. Prior to this time, the Christian population stood at around 20% of the total.

There are 236 open christian churches left in Turkey.

Anyway, things change but leopards don't change their spots.

So i don't doubt the OP's article.


en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: 23432

As in other countries Christian churches are being 'taken over' and in many cases Christians are being persecuted - are we to expect that this is different in Turkey.

This is really about Christian persecution by islamics, something the West seems to want to keep the lid on especially the media and our governments. Should we all be lulled into a false sense of safety as islam pervades through the influx of its people into Europe and elsewhere or should we be prepared and protect Christianity's right to exist?

I'm not Christian as such but I see its many benefits for society as well as some of its disadvantages. It wouldn't bother me except that its oncoming replacement is utterly barbaric and would set the world backwards with unelected imams controlling our every thought and action which is definitely not for me and mine.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: 23432

As in other countries Christian churches are being 'taken over' and in many cases Christians are being persecuted - are we to expect that this is different in Turkey.

This is really about Christian persecution by islamics, something the West seems to want to keep the lid on especially the media and our governments. Should we all be lulled into a false sense of safety as islam pervades through the influx of its people into Europe and elsewhere or should we be prepared and protect Christianity's right to exist?

I'm not Christian as such but I see its many benefits for society as well as some of its disadvantages. It wouldn't bother me except that its oncoming replacement is utterly barbaric and would set the world backwards with unelected imams controlling our every thought and action which is definitely not for me and mine.

I have a Christians & Jews & Muslims & Atheists in my extended family ; I live in Istanbul and I can assure you that no one is persecuting them.

Erdogan is the most popularly elected political leader and he has opened up & restored more Churches then any one else in Turkish History.

Contrary to popular belief almost half the population in Turkey has nothing to do with Islam per se .

Putin has already threatened to retake Constantinople and make it Christian again... IF the Turks under Erdogan continue to support IS/ISIS (Islamic Jihadist terrorists)

Russia can temporarily save-the-world from the end-times Beast Empire by making today's Istanbul (Constantinople) a Christian enclave once again in response to this campaign by the antichrist's meat puppet Recep Tayyip Erdogan

a reply to: Shiloh7

Well said Shiloh. The average western person does not understand or comprehend the teachings and meanings in the koran. One verse i remember well requires muslims to go forth and convert the infidels to islam and if they refuse, kill them. A sign of a superior religion i must say!!.

a reply to: 23432

I understand where your coming from. Between 1978 and 1999 (22 years) i had the pleasure to visit Turkey 14 times. All areas from the agean, kurdish batman and lake van, and trabzon. The people kept drawing me back. In those days the Kurds were accepted into the fold, with no war or fighting,and If i had been older i would have retired in bodrum on the agean sea. With regard to the current time, Erdogan is a puppet of the islamist extreme majority, yes the president, but with limited power he can call his own.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly
The bunk would be in the spin,

Shortly after that speech, the local housing administration started tearing down decrepit residential buildings in Sur, but opposition soon brought a halt to the demolition. Many of the buildings in Sur are protected, prohibiting big restoration projects. Mass construction can be carried out only if the government declares an urgent expropriation, as it has done now.

www.nytimes.com...

As opposed to:

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has taken control of six churches in the war-torn southeastern city of Diyarbakir in his latest move to squash freedom of speech and religious movement.

So you are saying that Erdogan took over the churches in order to restore them? And this includes the one built in 2003?

Well I am sure we will see the work starting soon.