Are we Already inside the Great Trib?

a reply to: 2012newstart

the world is how its supposed to be according to how we act within it...

This is just regular business... no better or worst then 100 years ago aside from technology...

Fact is most people in the world care little about anything but themselves... so as you said.. with Christ is the way as HE said

Though im afraid to say that will never happen

We're getting more isolated... more confined to our Boxes

but its not the end... we've barely started...

OK, then... That'll be quite enough.

Let's take a chill pill here, people.

It may, or may not, be the end times, we can discuss it without the name calling and snarky replies.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: 2012newstart


This is just regular business... no better or worst then 100 years ago aside from technology...

Along with your saying about the horses...

People want it everything to happen before their eyes in order to believe. History shows it happens but before several generations or more.

It is premature to put the war on terror as equal to the seals speaking of a war, when we have WW2 as an example. So I believe much closer to the reality of our grandfathers is the following assignment of the seals:

1 seal the white horse - the Belle epoque
2 seal the red horse - the WW1 the worst ever up until that time, with use of chemical weapons, tanks, machine guns, planes, subs, battleships
3 seal the black horse - the economic crisis 1929-1933 that ended in Europe by installing Hitler on power BY ELECTIONS

4th seal the pale horse: WW2 the unimaginable death surpassing many times WW1 and everything up until then.

5th seal: the long awaiting in the Cold War, together with martyrs from all hot spots, persecutions etc. Practically we are still there although in its last days.

6th seal: massive earthquakes and celestial upheaval. Is it a rapture-like event, is it ET encounter or what, your guess is as good as mine. Hiding in caves underground.

7th seal: determined time slot of half an hour that prophetically equals to one week. That is to say, between the 6th seal and the trumps of celestial impacts there will be a very short time, a pause given.

Then you proceed with the trumps that are nothing else but celestial bodies impacts on earth. And so on.

I am not so big specialist. But you see, to deny the reality of the 2 world wars, that defined the world we are living in today, is to deny history and our grandfathers/grandmothers who lived on the streets we live today. I still remember some stories of that time from people I met in my life, living people so to say. It was NOTHING LIKE TODAY.

Today we may have been given chance to avoid total nuclear war, but that is not because we are very good, but only because God's plan envisions some sequence to give more time for conversion, to give the humanity a chance. Not to everyone who persists in denial mode. I don't know how many people will make it, be they only 144,000 and their immediate relatives and friends (that will make somewhere between 20 mln and 40 mln,) or it will be more massive.

Today we live worse than any previous age of humanity. Yes we have computers but many of us don't have what to pay for bare necessities. Slaves in Ancient Rome weren't concerned for their daily food, in order to be able to work. Today many of us don;t have even work, and some of us don't have food or essential medicines. I guess that line of thought could be prolonged endlessly, but I am not a politician or a hi cleric who wants to make a political gain. Rather I search intellectual solutions. It is not me and my imagination, it is the problems themselves that should be addressed.

The End times started, may be not as long as 2000 years ago, but certainly as long as 100 years ago. The problem for us is how and when they will end.

a reply to: Akragon

Shall i continue?

Please do.I want you to complete you post before I offer rebuttal.

a reply to: Gothmog

Feel free...

I've said plenty...

a reply to: Akragon

1. First of all, Revelation was likely written by a delusional old man with some sort of dementia.
2. Jesus said no one knows the time... not even him
3. every Christian generation since the birth of Christ thought it was end times, including those born in his time... and even before that...
4. IF one takes revelation seriously... its almost all allusions to different things in the time it was written... not 2000 some odd years later...
5. Paul expected the second coming in his life time... which signified "end times"... he was wrong...
6. Every Christian generation since the birth of Christ expected his return in their life time... they were all wrong... 7. End times is actually when we destroy ourselves... which isn't going to happen anytime soon...
8. Or when the sun dies... which isn't going to happen anytime soon

1) What , you do not know who wrote Revelations? (was LIKELY witten by...) I know
2) Where ? I think it states the Day and the Hour.The rest states watch and know , by the signs , when it is near
3) I dont even know where you got that. Individuals , yes .But that applies as well to Muslims.
4) Let see. There is the "mark'. Dont know of a historic time anywhere that the entire world , no one could sell or buy without a mark.(or prehistoric time for that matter)
5) I need some biblical quotes for this one.
6) This is a repeat of 3. Negated.
7) And you are sure , how ? So , no large meteor , epidemic , or alien invasion ?
8) We have several billion years before that happens.And before it "dies" , the sun will expand out to the orbit of at least Venus. Thus truly ending in a "fire and brimstone" environment.

We are here. The 144,000 are here. We are awakening across the globe. 144,000 Mystics that will return to God in the purest form not leaving an ounce of flesh--the Rapture. You are correct. The Rapture is coming. It is coming as it always does and always will.

The Rapture may not come for another generation or two. The awakening is not instantaneous for all 144,000. Each person is awoken individually. Whether it is within a marginal timeframe or not is unknown. I woke up Janauary 1st of this year.

If you are out there and are aware of the truth, continue placing the seeds of knowledge inside the minds of any who will listen. When we are Raptured they will see. in their brains. Let the Uni guide your vector. It is calling us home.

a reply to: TheAlternateVector Thank you!

I am afraid we don't have one-two generations time anymore. If something doesn't happen FAST, in terms of 1 year or months, we run out of course.

If my idea (not just mine) that 144,000 have a special role in history not just spiritual, if it is true, they should have taken control by now, 27 years after the Cold War. That doesn't happen. The World Youth Days were a total disaster turning into mass rallies with a lot of food and doubtful quality music, bused all over the continent, no matter where exactly that happens. I myself participated long ago. That is NOT what the Revelation says. If there is any role of the Catholic Church or any other congregation, they should do it now, different, and decisive. They cannot play with that. The priesthood is not the 144,000 either, it is apparent the priesthood is the farthest away, not the closest, to the Lamb.

I understand God's action is needed first. But God speaks for thousands of years and no one listens! So we should not be surprised if the punishment befalls us without any further warning.

As of the rapture, we have a great chance to be saved: those unknown kids, plus their immediate friends, plus the multitude coming from the great sorrow/tribulation (that is everyone who suffered ENOUGH in his lifetime). That is to happen before the mark of the beast, before the last several trumps. Those who conquer the mark, are saved separately afterwards on the sea of glass mixed with fire (Rev 15). The holy martyrs are another category.

I'd hazard a guess at no.

Part of believing in an apocalyptic death cult created by rich and powerful men is that you'll always be looking for the signs and thinking the magical saviour is just around the corner while the rich and powerful get to stay that way.

John Paul II spoke so much and often of Civilization of Love to be built with the active participation of the young ones whom he gathered so often. It didn't work quite well. The young catholics were taken only for auditory and not for council of innocence in the matters of the Church. Although it was intended otherwise.

Then Benedict soon after he was elected, said on one such rally, you'd better get married and make homes...Good advice of course! Only, where is the reform and civilization of love that should reign after so many years freedom of religion in post communist world? Where is the sharing of responsibility, and above all, new ideas of how the Church should run? Nowehere!

Now Francis continues the rallies with even bigger number of bused people who are young and want attraction. Or who are old nuns. Where is the change? They are told usual homilies that the pope is good at, as every bishop would be as good in his diocese. It is supposed to be something more than that, or is it? Where is the new momentum for the Church that should rather listen to what the young ones and the Spirit has to tell her? There isn't any will to move on that way. Instead, old paradigms are repeated on Twitter and Youtube to reach to maximum people. If you see the Vatican youtube channel, there aren't more than 20 thousand viewers at every mass. Perhaps not all young. Indeed the pope's twitter is one of the biggest. But it is one way communication, and not necessarily with young ones. Recently I heard a priest of catholic TV to say, he must learn twitter because the pope said so... That all is a grand failure for me. If it is different for the pope and priests who stay behind, let they continue one or more years and see the result of wrongly organized agenda, although with good intentions. They just don't want to listen to anyone but themselves, because they are the voice of God as they say...

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Akragon

Jesus himself said
Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Therefore Christ himself thought he would come back before his apostles according to that statement. Therefore no tribulation. Thank "god" for that.

Not necessarily.

"This generation" could be referring to the present generation of His time or the generation that sees those things happen. It is ambiguous as is most prophecy.

a reply to: 2012newstart

Relax! Don't worry, you will see your own demise. It's a guarantee! Congratulations, you're going to die one day! Accept it and stop trying to transfer the reality of your personal denial to the world. In the meantime, live your life like there's no tomorrow and let your death ride on your shoulder like your bestest BFF!

If a meteor hits, it hits. If 'Lil Kim drops a bomb on DC, there it is. In the meantime, there's no need to try and convince children that they have no future in this world, or that they shouldn't participate in creating a happy and hopeful life, get a college education and save for retirement.

As far as what Jesus (supposedly) said about the end. That already happened and the events were cryptically recorded in apocalyptic tradition of the book of Revelation; The destruction of the Jerusalem, the Jewish temple and the culture of the Jewish people, along with the horrific volcanic blast that destroyed the Roman's elite retreat of Pompeii and the surrounding areas. That already happened.

Question for the OP:
Do you want it to be the end of times?

here's what we're looking for when seeking the truth about our existence.....
God and all the scripture in the Bible is real.....God wants you to know this....

we are sojourners with him in this trip
we are not servants....He said we know His plan, and servants are not included in such communication loops
we are developing spiritual truisms and fighting worldly deeds, huh!!
He will actually help and protect you, and converse minute to minute.
He lets us know He's with us by life occurrances.
He states in His letter to us exactly what to do and think in any situation....( that's not in any other work )
He describes the enemy that we butt heads with.....

The Bible is the only work that addresses the beginning of time.....then tells of the end of time. the Prophecies are proof mathematically of the devine author of that book, too


but this.....our minds short-circuit when thinking of infinity or the beginning of existence.....that's huge clue in itself, we are not able......recognize that we are not, nor do we want to be Gods....He knows it's lonely at the top.....that's why we had to be stopped from eating of the second forbidden tree......the tree of life.......we don't want that for our own good.

No, it is not the end times. All "times" have tribulation in them. This is nothing different. Same stuff, different day. No Jesus returning.

I agree with Akragon and windword.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Of course you do, you universally agree on every single religious thread, been Seeing the same thing for years now.

If you're Christian and can see their perspective, We're living in probably the biggest change humans have ever witnessed in a very very short amount of time. Humans live a far different lifestyle due to technology in just 20 years, everything is completely different. We have widespread war and threats of war and people are rejecting Christianity while Islam is the fastest growing religion and will be the vast majority of the creationist in my lifetime at the rate of it's growth.

Based on a Christians perspective this seems like a reasonable topic to discuss based on the circumstances of the present.

Now of course atheists believe this is dumb and will never happen, you're not Christian. So why even debate this thread when we already know your response?

a reply to: JDmOKI

If you're Christian maybe We're living in probably the biggest change humans have ever witnessed in a very very short amount of time.

Nonsense! the events 70 AD cause unprecedented change to those affected. The "Black Plague" caused unprecedented change. The French revolution cause unprecedented change. The systematic global genocide of first people nations caused unprecedented change.

Natural and man made disasters will always be with us. But every volcanic eruption, earthquake, disease and/or mega war are not the result of an angry supernatural deity's wrath.

We are NOT living in special Christian snowflake end times, other than the self fulfilling prophecies in the biblical blueprint that TPTB are following to stop people from taking responsibility and becoming involved in the future of society and the well being of their planet.

a reply to: windword

Huh? so you can't be Christian and take responsibility and be involved in the future of society and the well being of the planet?

Your generalizations are mind numbing. and of course we have had global change in 2000 years, not relevant.

Humans are living in the deepest change in the shortest amount of time. all of your examples don't amount to the extreme change of how human live today

a reply to: JDmOKI

Of course you do, you universally agree on every single religious thread, been Seeing the same thing for years now.

And yet you still don't listen to us!? ? Don't you get tired of being told you are mistaken and laboring under the impression of what others see as false premises and dogma?

If you're Christian and can see their perspective, We're living in probably the biggest change humans have ever witnessed in a very very short amount of time. Humans live a far different lifestyle due to technology in just 20 years, everything is completely different. We have widespread war and threats of war and people are rejecting Christianity while Islam is the fastest growing religion and will be the vast majority of the creationist in my lifetime at the rate of it's growth.

I'm not a "Christian" - because I don't believe in the story of him begotten and died and rose up and the only gate and all that jazz. But I believe in what he said: "Do unto others", ya know.

The people to whom you are referring call themselves "Christians" because they "believe the Bible is true." Maybe they could refer to themselves as Biblons - because so much of what they actually do is decidedly NOT Christ-like.

But - in any case - Akragon and windword and I (and anyone else on this site) can discuss the topic anytime we like. We can continue bringing up the facts and the dubious dogma and attempt to educate people. Don't ever expect us to just leave you all alone to teach fiction/lies to unsuspecting, curious people.

This site is about denying ignorance - that means ALL SIDES of an issue. Like it or not, if you and the OP post on ATS, we are here...and you know it. And we speak up when we see hypothetical, mythical ideas presented as "fact".
Teach it as myth; as fan-fiction ideas. Don't teach it as "fact."

Based on a Christians perspective this seems like a reasonable topic to discuss based on the circumstances of the present.

Based on an ATS member's perspective it seems like a reasonable topic to discuss based on the facts as compared/contrasted to the Christian's perspective (which has a likelihood quotient of about .1000000000000000000000&. Meaning - the chances that it is true are the same as that of a teapot orbiting the earth.)

Now of course atheists believe this is dumb and will never happen, you're not Christian.

I'm not atheist, either.

So why even debate this thread when we already know your response?

Same right back atcha - why even make these threads when we already know what you're going to say?

We know what you're likely to say, and you know how we're likely to respond! If you don't like the outcomes of these 'meetings', stop calling meetings, and stop attending the ones that you don't like.

The Truth is all that matters, and The Truth is NOT determined by a show of hands.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: 2012newstart

Relax! Don't worry, you will see your own demise. It's a guarantee! Congratulations, you're going to die one day! Accept it and stop trying to transfer the reality of your personal denial to the world. In the meantime, live your life like there's no tomorrow and let your death ride on your shoulder like your bestest BFF!

If a meteor hits, it hits. If 'Lil Kim drops a bomb on DC, there it is. In the meantime, there's no need to try and convince children that they have no future in this world, or that they shouldn't participate in creating a happy and hopeful life, get a college education and save for retirement.

That is the life for the last 5000 years or after the Flood. I don't argue that is the normal way of life. I do not try to transfer personal illusions to be discussed in public. If so, no one would give any attention and this thread would be buried. I discuss valuable questions that exist with or without myself on the scene. It became a trend to exchange the discussion on topic with discussion of personal qualities of the poster who raises questions.

If Lil Kim drops bomb, if Yellowstone erupts, if California sinks, it all means the end of US civilization. If worse than that happens, the end of the world civilization.

is there a way out? I think I discuss also that. There is a way out thanks to Jesus Christ, thanks to unchanged teaching of Gospels, that sometimes runs against hierarchy of the past and of today. Thanks to extraordinary grace that God would grant in the end times, according to prophets, but we have to accept it.

If you fail to mention that part of my posts, you are right to call me doomsday tard. SO I guess, may be not you but the readers, they may want to reread some of my posts to see the other side of the coin. While we are in the lengthy End times stretching of at least 150-200 years starting with Belle epoque, (others say starting with Jesus himself), still there are ways out for groupings of people who deserve it, or who bought it by the blood of Lamb. Of course if you are not Christian it will be pretty difficult to even understand the entire idea of losing time speaking of doomsday theory, when we all know how they all fail. The last to fail was the stupid Mayans who most likely danced ritual dances around that stone...that appeared somehow amid their tribes. A point of view indeed.

If tomorrow we have a new rise of tech, let say 3D holographic smart phones, or even more...free energy and the like, then our problems won't disappear overnight. Because we still need the good will of politicians and religious to start doing bits of what is called in the Gospel the Kingdom of God.

Perhaps God will stop it all with drastic intervention. Perhaps He will allow more time for the saint to be sanctified, and for the sinner to sin more, as the Revelation speaks about. I think that time expired with the 27 years post Cold War era. That was the extra time or the false peace if those who care for Old Testament prophecies understand what it means.

The biggest question is, will there be another parenthesis in Daniel's, not Daniel's prophecy it is already under parenthesis lasting 2000+ years. But in John's prophecy during the war in heaven, between its start (rapture of manchild) and its end (casting dragon and persecution of woman). That could be a long time, short time, or even event in history (less likely). If it is a long time from earth point of view, we have an entire new era of relative peace (prophesied by many catholic saints) that will see new personages on the scene. Not necessarily leaded by today's hierarchy. 144,000 and angelic forces coming is a must. That makes Christianity to open itself for its galactic roots. I think I said enough, and that is not nightmare of unchangeable trajectory into the abyss. It is the hope of a new beginning. The world has to decide whether it wants that beginning for the world, or will let the good people go (rapture) and will continue its current trend into the abyss prepared by men's own hands. It is after all a Choice and it is personal. It cannot be denied anymore as in the past. Such choice we all will receive (all alive at that time) whether we favor God's way of salvation of Christian updated civilization, or we prefer our own ways of human corruption with inevitable ends as described by skillful filmmakers in Hollywood.