A no kidding #1 threat to mankind's earth and civilization.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Thats because they were on a points ignition system..

No. It's because there were not many internal combustion powered cars at the time and because ignition systems (of any sort) are not affected by geomagnetic storms.

originally posted by: trollz
a reply to: Profusion

I was about to point this out. I'm pretty sure that 438 nuclear reactors going into meltdown around the world would cause humanity to go extinct.

Im more concerned about the ones that have already melted down and their cores are steadily headed towards the earths core. Sometimes I wonder if Einstein was secretly a nilhist? We better harness some damn gravity to pull those out, talk about a thorn in the lions paw.

As an inventor etc myself Einstein is the reason I came up with the notion "Invention is our greatest asset yet our biggest downfall" eluding to him wanting it to power with E=MC^2 and not perverted to destroy like with the bomb... so yeah maybe these tiny cores headed towards a much larger core wont end in what an atomic bomb is triggered to occurr to begin with two radio active pieces shot together... but kinda in slow motion right now.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Jane Fonda fan?
Barbarella was fun. China Syndrome, dumb.

a reply to: Phage

Thanks for bouncing it back to the OP but geomagnetics is electricity like where lightning comes from you know charges of excited atoms swapping chages like the casimere effect etc and all of them have wavelengths varied from all of this activity... and yes the vehicles were on points at the time of this event occuring.

Ive always appreciated you reminding what is current accept theory Phage, but add some stuff up that you look up into a cohesive working model instead of random fragments sometimes will yah? A puzzle can become complete but yeah man various stages of it, some hide the pieces, some seearch for one piece too damn long and some never complete it, some just leave it on a shelf collecting dust.

Im glad to see youve been becoming more than a fetch current data search engine and opening up, but application of it doesnt seem to be the strong suit quite yet... so spare me the retort.

But thanks for the attention sweet cheeks ive missed you.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Thanks for bouncing it back to the OP but geomagnetics is electricity

No. It isn't. But geomagnetism can produce electricity when it fluctuates across long conductors.

and yes the vehicles were on points at the time of this event occuring.

1859? Which vehicles would that be?

But thanks for the attention sweet cheeks ive missed you.

Nothing personal and I haven't been gone.

a reply to: Phage

Wormstrom, Im glad to see your self certianty principle is still in effect... if you need attention to feed that ego try the favorite member thread.

a reply to: 727Sky

It would certainly be the most entertaining and electrifying event....and I for one know it won't turn out like anyone thinks.....

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: butcherguy
No.
The wiring is not long enough to produce currents of any significance. Hundreds of miles of wire, yes. 15 feet of wire, not.

Shielded or not, is irrelevant. It is the fluctuation of the magnetic field across the wire which induces the current.

The fluctuation of the current across the magnetic field will change that dramatically.

I look forward to all the scientists rewriting textbooks, because things happened they didn't "expect".

a reply to: ParasuvO

The fluctuation of the current across the magnetic field will change that dramatically.

Which current? What would it change?

I look forward to all the scientists rewriting textbooks,

I'm not sure how many scientists write textbooks but I do know that textbooks change with just about every edition.

a reply to: Phage

If we just have been missed by Carrington-class CME back in 2012 - in a weakest cycle - it makes the "one or twice in a thousand years" estimate a joke. This circumstantial evidence has no value for the risk assessment. The very method seems meaningless and the estimate statistically impossible.

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ


The question I was answering was this:

I wonder how often this type of event happens?

My answer was this:

However, there is circumstantial evidence in the form of radioisotope distributions that very strong events like the Carrington occur one or twice in a thousand years.

The number of misses is irrelevant. If a CME misses, it misses. If you are rolling dice, it doesn't make you more likely to get boxcars if you don't. The indications are that such events occur a couple of times in a thousand years. That does not mean that that they can only happen twice in a thousand years, nor does it mean that they will happen twice in a thousand years.

But whether or not the Earth encounters the CME is not really relevant to the evidence. The evidence shows that the very strong solar events which are associated with strong CMEs may occur with that frequency. So, in fact, the chances of the Earth being affected could be somewhat less, since the chances of any particular CME missing Earth exceed the chances of one striking Earth.

This circumstantial evidence has no value for the risk assessment.

What evidence do you think would be valid for risk assessment purposes?


www.sciencedirect.com...

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: Phage

Wormstrom, Im glad to see your self certianty principle is still in effect... if you need attention to feed that ego try the favorite member thread.

a long thick conductor could handle the current an 18 gauge wire would disappear in a whif of smoke, like it was never there.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: ParasuvO

The fluctuation of the current across the magnetic field will change that dramatically.

Which current? What would it change?

I look forward to all the scientists rewriting textbooks,

I'm not sure how many scientists write textbooks but I do know that textbooks change with just about every edition.

Both the magnetic flux and the electrical current would fluctuate since one is related to the other. Assuming of course there is a fluctuation at all. CME and their relationship to earth is pretty damn interesting though.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: 727Sky

Most species on Earth and many human settlements do not rely on electricity. A modern-time Carrington event would be a game-changer, sure, but it would most certainly not bring extinction.

It wouldn't even bring about the end of technology, but it will be bad for long electrical transmission lines if they don't open them when the satellites report the CME is on the way.

Not that they can't design long lines to work even with geomagnetic heave, they just don't.

originally posted by: Misterlondon

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: 727Sky

Most species on Earth and many human settlements do not rely on electricity. A modern-time Carrington event would be a game-changer, sure, but it would most certainly not bring extinction.

It would be the end of the world for many without their iPhone or Facebook..

Wouldn't damage either. Satellites would be down for quite a while, though. Civilian ones, at any rate. Fiber optic phone distribution, no change. Not a whole lot of issues with cell towers, as they're line of sight and don't depend on the ionosphere. You could get some really oddball "bounce" at cell tower frequencies though, so it's possible it might be disrupted intermittently.

originally posted by: butcherguy
Not so long ago a vehicle with a diesel engine would have been immune to the effects of a Carrington Event. Today's diesel engines have a whole lot of controls that allow them to function. These controls would be fried if we get a real solar blast.

Not at all. A CME is not an EMP. Totally different animals.

CMEs cause geomagnetic heave. So you get damage primarily on long AC transmission systems, some to relatively long copper lines (the phone line at the farm is about a half mile from the fiber POP, would be chancy), and long radio antennas.

What you don't get is wholesale destruction of electronics, because CME's have no fast phase.

originally posted by: peck420
a reply to: Phage
Some of the modern luxury vehicles carry 5-10 km of wiring.

Not in one long conductor, they don't.

originally posted by: VoidHawk
The fear about nuclear power stations being frazzled, is very unlikely. Over here in the uk they know what to do when such an event is expected, they throw open the breakers all over the grid, thereby reducing the length of the conductors to a safe level.

And that's how you do that. It's low tech, but it's infallible.

It would be possible to design the transformers in long-line use to tolerate DC offsets and ground loop induction - the value of "ground" literally becomes different at the two ends as the earth forms one of the conductor legs in an induction loop - but it costs money to do, and we're not about to do that until it all blows up.

Nonetheless, the other way is to simply isolate the various generation districts and open the crossfeeds. Can cause local blackouts if the local capacity isn't up to snuff. But shouldn't cause total grid destruction.

originally posted by: fleabit
438 nuclear reactors will go on meltdown 'cause we are turning off all your power. Good luck with that!

Well, every reactor is supposed to have a local diesel backup for cooling, and the ability to keep itself cool for months. Fukushima was odd in that the diesels were destroyed by the sea water, but that wouldn't be the case for a CME.

I guess you could have them be so stupid that they didn't isolate the reactors before the event hit and the switchyard bit it to the point they couldn't switch to the diesel, but they are still supposed to have a diesel system that can cool it by running the pumps without the switch yard being intact. They test them regularly.

originally posted by: Junkheap

I'm guessing the first thing we would have noticed would be the Satellite on the television going out just before all the lights go out, the computer power supply exploding from the power surge and then all the power lines in my city catching fire and that would just be the beginning.

The first thing would be the news going nuts - the CME moves slowly enough that the satellites monitoring solar activity would report it. All the power lines in your city would NOT catch fire. But if they didn't isolate the intergrid long lines, then they'd probably lose that, and each area would be on its own, and some can't run without help. The Northeast would eat it, I'm afraid.