Contrails explained with visual aid.

In trying to get people to grasp why contrails form, it's been difficult to get those same people to realize that contrails are man made cirrus clouds. This short video shows a patch of high cirrus, along with some contrails, which shows visually what you are seeing.


If high cirrus is present, then contrail formation is likely. As she mentions, a frontal system is on it's way, bringing this visual change.
If you pay attention to the forecast, you can usually tell ahead of time when the skies might have more trails, just based on what weather is approaching and what weather you had.

These trails are ice crystals. The exhaust part with all the emissions are invisible.

a reply to: network dude

I think the amazing part is that these contrails do in fact create cloud cover as noted by the meteorologist...I can recall years ago that there were many people noting that clouds are not created by contrails....fast forward today and now we are learning that this seems to be the case.

I'm not saying there is anything nefarious about this but as a younger man I just don't recall seeing as many chontrails creating cloud cover. I do recall big billowy clouds and not the typical flat cloud cover that seems incredibly uniformed from the ground where as again clouds had multiple shapes...

I do note to my children and my wife (who could care less) that when the contrails seem to blend and form bigger clouds that the next day will inevitably be a cloudy day I'm usually correct.
Yesterday over the soccer field contrails were blending but not making a lot of cloud cover..temperature was close to 70 but not sure what the temp up there was...today no clouds.

I do wonder that since their are many more plans today does this help justify this idea that they are in fact ice crystals hanging together and is this a good thing in the long run? Does adding so much cloud cover effect the natural balance? Some would argue that this may slow global warming but I'm sure this does not filter our harmful uv rays.

a reply to: chrismarco

Technology has evolved to make engines more efficient. That efficiency means more contrails as a result. That's why you don't remember more from when you were younger.

As for the net effect, that's unknown. They know the diurnal effect from 9/11, but the three days of non-flying wasn't enough data for them to figure out the overall net effect.

a reply to: chrismarco



here is a report from 1980 that explains this a bit. back then, there were a lot less trails then today, but they were still a factor.

As Zaphod58 mentioned, the newer engines are more prone to make trails, where older technology might not, coupled with a massive increase in air traffic from back then, you will expect many more trails today, and many, many more in the future.

But the appearance of trails is a good indication of the approaching frontal system. these days, they can be predicted much father out, so if you watch the weather forecast, you can usually know when the skies will fill up with trails, and when they should be relatively clear. I know in NC we have a large high pressure system keeping our skies clear for a couple days, with a front to approach on Wednesday, so we should have clear skies for today and most of tomorrow, with trails forming late int he evening and into Wednesday. (if tradition holds true)

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: chrismarco

Technology has evolved to make engines more efficient. That efficiency means more contrails as a result. That's why you don't remember more from when you were younger.

As for the net effect, that's unknown. They know the diurnal effect from 9/11, but the three days of non-flying wasn't enough data for them to figure out the overall net effect.

That makes sense. So whats it mean when the contrail is bright green?



(Ducks out of room before Zaph back hands me)

originally posted by: BASSPLYR

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: chrismarco

Technology has evolved to make engines more efficient. That efficiency means more contrails as a result. That's why you don't remember more from when you were younger.

As for the net effect, that's unknown. They know the diurnal effect from 9/11, but the three days of non-flying wasn't enough data for them to figure out the overall net effect.

That makes sense. So whats it mean when the contrail is bright green?



(Ducks out of room before Zaph back hands me)

time to cut back on the leafy greens I'd say.

a reply to: network dude

Ok so I'll be the first here to say that most of what has been said in this thread has been speculation without any concrete data to support anything. I have been on this earth 40+ years, 6 of which were served in the USAF. Even before my stint in the service I had never seen rainbow halos around the sun or on the edges of surrounding clouds.

As a youngster, I always looked up more than down. Partially because of the med-fly crisis in the early 80's where Huey helicopters sprayed the skies of northern California in order to kill these fruit flies. I remember them flying over my house in San Ramon, CA. in formation.

Over the years, and with an understanding of contrails due to my airforce experiences, the likelihood of every contrail being dismissed as simply engine exhaust is laughable at best. The advent of the advancement of engine technology is just another excuse to feel warm and fuzzy. I have seen NUMEROUS flight patterns at the same altitude where one aircraft leaves a dissipating contrail, whereas the other aircraft leaves a non-dissipating trail that completely spreads out and covers the sky within hours. A clear, sunny day is over before it even began, time and time again.

With a little research on the web, there are countless researchers that have found some very interesting things that occur in and around these "other" contrails.

More often than not, we only mislead ourselves. Especially when we try to make sense of what we can't control. One could say I'm doing the same, but my experiences and research say otherwise. However, people are free to believe whatever helps them sleep at night.

a reply to: EternalShadow

I'd like to discuss the entire post, but I'd like to start with this as you have some specific knowledge.

Have you ever seen a T.O. for how to load a chemtrail plane, or how to repair a chemtrail plane?

You know better than most that NOTHING can be done to a plane in the USAF without a T.O. being present and opened to the correct page for the maintenance being preformed. So this one thing would be the huge smoking gun. If it existed, (and if it was a USAF plane, it would have to), then how is it possible that nothing about this has ever been leaked in over 20 years?

And please don't take my tone as aggressive, it's not meant that way.

originally posted by: EternalShadow
a reply to: network dude

Ok so I'll be the first here to say that most of what has been said in this thread has been speculation without any concrete data to support anything. I have been on this earth 40+ years, 6 of which were served in the USAF. Even before my stint in the service I had never seen rainbow halos around the sun or on the edges of surrounding clouds.

science-edu.larc.nasa.gov...

Contrails are clouds formed when water vapor condenses and freezes around small particles (aerosols) that exist in aircraft exhaust. Some of that water vapor comes from the air around the plane; and, some is added by the exhaust of the aircraft. The exhaust of an aircraft contains both gas (vapor) and solid particles. Both of these are important in the formation of contrails. Some elements of the exhaust gasses are not involved in contrail formation but do constitute air pollution. Emissions include carbon dioxide, water vapor, nitrogen oxides (NOx), carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons such as methane, sulfates (SOx), and soot and metal particles. Are there different types of contrails? Contrails are all made of the same materials and are formed in the same way, but exist for different lengths of time. Because of the differences in contrail "life-spans", contrails can be divided into three groups: short-lived, persistent (non-spreading), and persistent spreading. See the Contrail Formation Guide [PDF] for more information on how contrails form or download a presentation [PDF] to learn how to "read" they sky.

Cloud iridescence is the occurrence of colors in a cloud similar to those seen in oil films on puddles, and is similar to irisation. It is a fairly uncommon phenomenon, most often observed in altocumulus,[1] cirrocumulus, lenticular clouds and cirrus clouds.[2][3][4] The colors are usually pastel, but can be very vivid. Iridescence is generally produced near the sun, with the sun's glare masking it, so it is more easily seen by hiding the sun behind a tree or building. Other aids are dark glasses, or observing the sky reflected in a convex mirror or in a pool of water.

en.wikipedia.org...

As a youngster, I always looked up more than down. Partially because of the med-fly crisis in the early 80's where Huey helicopters sprayed the skies of northern California in order to kill these fruit flies. I remember them flying over my house in San Ramon, CA. in formation.

Over the years, and with an understanding of contrails due to my airforce experiences, the likelihood of every contrail being dismissed as simply engine exhaust is laughable at best.

As said above, contrails are not exhaust, but ice crystals formed by the heat of the exhaust taking in moist air and adding H20 to it from the combustion process. If the conditions are right (humidity and temperature) then trails can form and their longevity depends on those conditions. (as stated above in the link)

The advent of the advancement of engine technology is just another excuse to feel warm and fuzzy. I have seen NUMEROUS flight patterns at the same altitude where one aircraft leaves a dissipating contrail, whereas the other aircraft leaves a non-dissipating trail that completely spreads out and covers the sky within hours. A clear, sunny day is over before it even began, time and time again.

the ability to judge altitude when it's 6 miles up, by sight alone is quite impossible. When you factor in that conditions may vary by a few hundred feet, and knowing that flight separation is 1000 feet vertical, it changes your statement dramatically

With a little research on the web, there are countless researchers that have found some very interesting things that occur in and around these "other" contrails.

More often than not, we only mislead ourselves. Especially when we try to make sense of what we can't control. One could say I'm doing the same, but my experiences and research say otherwise. However, people are free to believe whatever helps them sleep at night.

My experience and research comes from peer reviewed science. If you have any links at all, or anything other than speculation without any concrete evidence, please present it as has been done above.

originally posted by: EternalShadow
a reply to: network dude

As a youngster, I always looked up more than down. Partially because of the med-fly crisis in the early 80's where Huey helicopters sprayed the skies of northern California in order to kill these fruit flies. I remember them flying over my house in San Ramon, CA. in formation.

We have had spraying for Gypsy Moth larvae here in Pennsylvania, but that spraying is done from relatively low flying craft, not from jets at 30,000+ feet. That spraying looks nothing at all like a contrail (the puffy white lines from high-altitude aircraft some call "chemtrails").

Over the years, and with an understanding of contrails due to my airforce experiences, the likelihood of every contrail being dismissed as simply engine exhaust is laughable at best.

With your experience, then you should know that contrails are NOT engine exhaust. They are caused by the exhaust from jet engines, but the lines themselves mostly are not the exhaust gasses themselves. I say "mostly", because some of the moisture that freezes to form is present in the exhaust gasses...

...HOWEVER, most of the water that freezes was already in the air to begin with, before the plane even flew through that air. Some of it was sucked through the intake of the engine to help turn the turbines, but that air (and the moisture in it) never go through the combustion process -- it bypasses the combustion chamber. The rest of the water that freezes to form a contrail is present in the air behind the engines.

For some of the contrail, the warm moist air (and some soot) coming from the engine exhaust hits the cold air and freezes. But for the rest of the contrail, this freezing of the exhaust then creates nucleation points which in turn causes a cascade effect in which the ambient moisture in the air (moisture already present in the air) freezes onto those nucleation points, in turn causing more nucleation points upon which more ambient moisture freezes, and so on and so on, creating a spreading contrail.

So it isn't accurate to say that a contrail is jet exhaust. A very small portion of it is, but mostly the jet exhaust causes the ambient atmospheric moisture to freeze into a contrail, rather than the exhaust being the contrail.

But besides all of that, why do you think it is laughable that all contrails can be caused by jet exhaust? I mean, why not? There's a lot of jets in the air.

With a little research on the web, there are countless researchers that have found some very interesting things that occur in and around these "other" contrails.

I've done online research into contrails, and found that the people who claim that contrails are "chemtrails" seem to have a poor understanding of the science behind a contrail. Those people are often misinformed and are simply passing along that misinformation, or (worse) they are often spouting disinformation. I have yet to find a "chemtrail" website that makes scientifically accurate and informed claims.

a reply to: EternalShadow

There's a great picture in my uploads I'll find this evening that proves both my point and that it relates to your statement of two aircraft at the same altitude with different contrails. They flew a new model Airbus within a few hundred feet horizontally of a Boeing 707 at the same altitude. The Airbus is leaving a beautiful contrail while the 707 isn't.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

So whats it mean when the contrail is bright green?

It's an Air Lingus flight from Dublin.

a reply to: network dude

It's not a contrail, it's the exhaust of a little known black project that's been zipping around. Hopefully, from the rumblings it'll sort of go Grey in a year or two.

a reply to: chrismarco

but as a younger man I just don't recall seeing as many chontrails creating cloud cover.

US air passengers by year.
1981 281 million
2015 762 million

Us passenger miles flown by year
1960 31 million
2013 589 million

Worldewide jet fuel consumed by year
1984 1.8 million barrels per day
2010 5.2 million barrels per day

Now you know why you see more contrails as an adult.
But how valid are you childhood memories anyway ?

I didn't say anything about those helicopters leaving a trail of any kind. I was merely mentioning WHY I have since been one to look up instead of down. Secondly, hypothetically, if there was a clandestine program to cloud seed or manipulate the weather or whatever, considering the sheer scope of an operation of that magnitude, it WOULD NOT be assigned to the military. Thanks to those who CLEARLY defined what a contrail is. I'm sure folks are informed enough to realize that there are extensive patents to modify weather; enough to at least say some type of program(s) or operation(s) do exist. I'm sure it's already been discussed here. Here's a link anyway:

www.geoengineeringwatch.org...

Interestingly, we have been trying to control weather since the late 1800's. That's over 100 years ago. Yet we went from tube TV's to flat-screens in less than half that time. Do honestly think those patents are sitting there stagnant all these years? That none of them have been used or been integrated into some nefarious project? Even if there's no "in your face" evidence, one would be EXTREMELY naive to believe otherwise.

It's not impossible to judge the altitude of two separate aircraft from the ground if you have the training to do so. It may be more approximate than precise, but it is possible. Ask any JTAC or TACP.

a reply to: EternalShadow

You'll find that humans have been trying to manipulate the weather for far longer than 100 years. Rain dances, sacrifices etc were all attempts at changing the weather.

Cloud seeding already exists and is well documented. It's not hidden anywhere. Cloud seeding, however, are not and do not form chemtrails (in the sense of the conspiracy).

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: network dude

It's not a contrail, it's the exhaust of a little known black project that's been zipping around. Hopefully, from the rumblings it'll sort of go Grey in a year or two.

Damn, I thought that was a joke. Sounds like new propulsion. Should be interesting when it does venture into reality.

a reply to: network dude

It uses a fuel additive due to the flight environment. It's always fun because it looks a lot like a meteorite, only it doesn't burn out.

originally posted by: EternalShadow
I didn't say anything about those helicopters leaving a trail of any kind. I was merely mentioning WHY I have since been one to look up instead of down. Secondly, hypothetically, if there was a clandestine program to cloud seed or manipulate the weather or whatever, considering the sheer scope of an operation of that magnitude, it WOULD NOT be assigned to the military. Thanks to those who CLEARLY defined what a contrail is. I'm sure folks are informed enough to realize that there are extensive patents to modify weather; enough to at least say some type of program(s) or operation(s) do exist. I'm sure it's already been discussed here. Here's a link anyway:

www.geoengineeringwatch.org...

Interestingly, we have been trying to control weather since the late 1800's. That's over 100 years ago. Yet we went from tube TV's to flat-screens in less than half that time. Do honestly think those patents are sitting there stagnant all these years? That none of them have been used or been integrated into some nefarious project? Even if there's no "in your face" evidence, one would be EXTREMELY naive to believe otherwise.

It's not impossible to judge the altitude of two separate aircraft from the ground if you have the training to do so. It may be more approximate than precise, but it is possible. Ask any JTAC or TACP.

If you can show me a person who can judge aircraft altitude within a few hundred feet at 6 miles up by sight alone, I would be completely amazed. I honestly don't believe it can happen.

As far as cloud seeding or weather modification, it's not secret at all. It has no place being associated with contrails. The two are vastly different other than both being in the sky.

www.weathermodification.com...




Please let me know your thoughts on this.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: network dude

It uses a fuel additive due to the flight environment. It's always fun because it looks a lot like a meteorite, only it doesn't burn out.

so reading between those lines, I'd guess it has capability to go a tad higher than the U2. I'll save the next question for the date and time it's public knowledge. I'm quite sure I know the opsec answer.