When Is a Life Primative Enough To Kill Without Reprecussions? (From Man or God)

It is hard to imagine things like bugs and stuff to be real lifeforms with sense of self and stuff because they are soo different than us, so smashing them, destroying their colonies, etc is easy..no association with them outside of the common element of life. Same with plants and stuff.

But when it comes to mammals, thats when it gets difficult. we relate to them more because we are mammals, so we then start to recognize traits. we know animals have feelings, thoughts, interests, desires, etc. killing say, a dolphin or ape is hard to do because of a close association with them. we tend to convince ourselves that its ok to kill mammals for food and sanitary considerations (rats and cows), but even when we do that, its done with a bit more respect than a ants nest....typically.

I think if its done not for joy or "sport", and done as humanely and quickly as possible, then thats all that can be asked..but I would venture to say try to find alternatives when possible. next time, let them mature and sell them off, or hell, let them try their luck out in the forest once they are old enough to forage.

originally posted by: Puppylove
If you had left there she'd probably have eaten and killed most of them and done the deed for you. Hamsters are weird like that.

Yes, it might have happened like that.

I'm sorry, carewemust, but what you did was......not something i would or could do.

They were pets! Not pests! wtf!?

Couldn't you have given them, if they survived mom, to the kids school or somewhere?

Wow, lol.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

They were pets! Not pests! wtf!?

The notion of pet or pest is really subjective ....where does one draw the line between the two and more to the point who gets to decide which is which and why death is an option based on opinion ?

ETA i am not sure that even makes sense, well it sort of does to me in the alcohol induced state i am in ...

I don't kill anything.. Ever.. In fact I'm always a little saddened when I do by mistake. Eg stepping on an insect..

The thought of you putting them in the garbage disposal seems wrong on so many levels..

a reply to: Kandinsky

I agree with what you say.. The only justification for killing an innocent creature is for survival i.e the bear analogy, or for survival I.e food.
Killing an animal just for the sake of it is wrong..

Why couldn't that guy have taken those hamsters to a pet shop? Or a rescue centre?

Just to kill them without a second thought saddens me.

All you hippies.. Although I don't think the garbage disposal is the right way to terminate a baby hamster, it's also not the worst either.

I've killed a lot of things.. For food, for fun, for mercy...
A lot of you think that if we are okay with killing something we value life in general less than others. Well we're human, I'm pretty sure a garage mouse is enjoying life more than me because it runs on instinct. It doesn't need to justify eating insects because it's food. I'm very happy to kill for food, I'm okay with killing for population control and I hate killing to help something relieve it's misery, but imo that is the most justifiable form of murder.

We are human and we have conciseness. Few other creatures are self aware and I think it's our responsibility to exercise population control because we have the capacity to determine when a population is out of control - no other animal can do that for another species.

Give me a knife and a plump cow and I'm taking that sucker down. I believe people who eat meat and are not willing to kill are hypocrites. Also, just because something is cute doesn't mean it escapes the clutches of nature. So why should we view cute animals above others?

I don't want to bring up Cecil the lion, but kids are hungry and dying in Africa, any dollars we can bring in from some rich American dentist is okay by me, even if it means a couple of captive lions bite the dust, at least it's helping HUMANS survive.

My own species comes first. That's the way of nature.

a reply to: carewemust

we are just barbaric humans and always been like this. so many contradictions all the time

lots of people say they love animals - but happy eating their dead carcass
if we are not killing things then we are keeping them in captivity (zoos)

humans want to control everything - im in UK do we ever see wild horses cows or sheep freely roaming around anywhere?Hardly they are all kept in farm yards or captured in some sort of way. im sure the horses would rather be free and fuc*ing other horses and be happy.

i read a post that asked a a robot with immense AI what they would do if they was in control based on what they have seen in humans. It responded " to get all humans captured and keep them in captivity" something along those lines, not the exact wording as im going by memory.

We are intelligent humans and we know things have the right to live with out without God involved.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

There are cultures that treat all life as sacred, irrespective of how man deems how developed or complex that life is

one of the cultures are called "Jan" and they part of the indian culture. They walk around with cloth over there mouths so they dont accidentally swallow and kill flies. no thats dedication

a reply to: carewemust

The definite answer to this question is certainly not what it seems for duality is illusory, but if there is one, must be quite frightening..

However all beings naturally tend to seek peaceful existences, even in the midst of the Kali yuga. There are even descriptions in the Vedas and the likes of each ages the best and purer being Gold age where unadultared wisdom is normality, telepathy as universal language between all species, increased longevity up to thousands of years for humans, "oneness"... The Kali Yuga is the extreme opposite. The age of ignorance, separateness and materialism.

And the ending is coming, along with destruction, the usual stuff that has been happening for millions of years in the past.

Great times uh? A cosmic shower to celebrate the end of the most fugly era ever witnessed!

I was thinking yesterday, while sitting in the back seat of my Mom's car, driving around, getting bored. The weather was nice, critters and bugs were out and doing what they do after fighting through a long and cold winter.....

People are born as much an animal as any of those things we kill for fun or food or supposedly "out of necessity" and are indoctrinated to be what they are.

That's why the world is such a wonderful place.

The previous sentence was sarcasm, in case you missed it....

Those critters could just have well been allowed to live until they were old enough to be given away on Craigslist to some person who wanted them, or whatever...

There is no life primitive enough to disregard as being unnecessary, some things must be killed and consumed for energy or to preserve one's health, but everything here has to be here for everything else to be here as it is. Remove one thing and another thing is no longer kept in check and runs rampant until disease or destruction of the environment from overpopulation occurs and it self balances itself out of existence.

All man ever did or does is knock things out of balance.

i always wonder if there are other dimensions after death, are we the hunted there, are we the prey..

a reply to: carewemust

The other day, one of my kid's 5 dwarf hamsters had 7 babies. To keep things manageable going forward, I put 5 of the babies down the garbage disposal. My sister-in-law said that was cruel.

That is sickening. I wish I had not read it. Now I can never, ever unknow it.

Shame on you. It was not only cruel, it was sadistic, unnecessary, and savage.

you could have given the babies to a pet store and killing innocent creatures like that is truly Cruel and what your children now think of you for doing such a HORRIBLE act.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Haven't recent studies shown that we ourselves are 80% parasites and only 20% human? It makes you wonder about the necessity of all life and its place in the scheme of things. What makes a living thing aware? Using the premise that this is a virtual reality construct and we are all simply biological robots with neural nets for data acquisition systems, where is all the information going? If it is going back to a single source, when we kill something are we killing a part of ourselves reducing our capacity to gather information. Is having consciousness locked into matter a school or a prison, learning or punishment?

Cheers - Dave

you are cruel. if you can't manage a pet that simple, please find loving homes for all of your remaining pets

I think the responses here are interesting. A lot can be gleaned from the response to the somewhat shocking and straightforward OP.

OP, I admire your ability to be straightforward and to the point. Of course, maybe you like the "shocked" responses...but whatever. Takes some guts to post that here. You had to know you'd get some backlash.

I think the question is a valid one and I am not really one to answer it. I have no answer. Those lines blur somewhere inside my head, a place I cannot define in words.
This thread does show who the emotional responders are though. Those that are unable (or unwilling) to look beyond their own emotions to get to the heart of the subject matter. Very interesting indeed. Tends to be the same ones always jumping to conclusions without thinking it through a bit more deeply (not aimed at anyone personally)....

Ftr....I don't think what you did was necessarily "cruel" (that's a subjective description of it anyways) but I think you could probably go about it in a bit different way. Maybe just toss the in a sack and drown them? Idk, that's not really any better.
You did what you had to do to, as you said, "keep things manageable". Of course, you do know they spay and neuter those little bastards too, I hope. That is always an option, I suppose.

Of course, where I live (middle of nowhere land) not that very long ago (40 or 50 years or so) it was not so easy to have pets fixed. My great uncles used to euthanize cats at my great grandmothers house, and often puppies as well. I remember vividly, as a small child, a litter of puppies that was born. There were a bunch of them, don't remember exactly how many....8 or so. They all got drunk and euthanized them. Took them to the woodshed and used a hatchet to cut off their heads, one by one. I cried....they laughed (being drunk and all).....there were always tons of cats around up there (nearest neighbor miles away) and when they would get too overpopulated (talking like 50 or more cats at least) they would use them for target practice....cruel, of course, by today's standards. To them it seemed to be loads of "fun"....to me, not so much.

I have had to euthanize a few animals in my life. I hunt for food but I never kill for sport. If it must be done, it is what it is. If one gets a sense of "joy" from it, or is entertained by it....idk, that's sort of where I personally draw the line. Though I will admit that the "joy" of the hunt when taking down big game is definitely present. I find that to be natural personally. Bringing home food for the family is as natural as it gets, obviously one would arise a sense of satisfaction from that.

....nice thread.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: burgerbuddy

They were pets! Not pests! wtf!?

The notion of pet or pest is really subjective ....where does one draw the line between the two and more to the point who gets to decide which is which and why death is an option based on opinion ?

ETA i am not sure that even makes sense, well it sort of does to me in the alcohol induced state i am in ...

Pets are cared for.

Pests not so much.

a reply to: TechniXcality

If you don't like bugs in your house then keep the spiders you see alive. They will gladly eat all those bugs for ya

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: carewemust

I think it's each to their own according to their conscience and within the laws of the land.

I was reading recently that there are about 100, 000 giraffes left and how elephants have passed the tipping point and are facing extinction (in the wild). Most of the big critters have been removed from existence in the past few thousand years.

We've replaced wild animals with billions of cattle, pigs and sheep and we're happily butchering them in their thousands every day. I mean, pigs are considered to be on the scale for sentience and they taste too damn bacony for that to matter.

We're presiding over the final days of some of the finest creatures on the planet and we'll tie ourselves in knots about that cute little dog tied up and barking outside the store. You know what I mean? We're emotionally invested in some animals and don't really give a crap about the rest.

The evidence says 'morality' doesn't really come into it beyond 'needs must.'

Great reply. I agree 100%

The hypocrisy of our society is delusional at best.

a reply to: Realtruth

Oh yes. People are surprisingly specific about the things they'll get morally outraged over.

People all over the world are treated like less than garbage? No problem!

A member throws 5 hamster babies down a disposal? EVIL INCARNATE!