When Is a Life Primative Enough To Kill Without Reprecussions? (From Man or God)

April 16, 2016

The other day, one of my kid's 5 dwarf hamsters had 7 babies. To keep things manageable going forward, I put 5 of the babies down the garbage disposal. My sister-in-law said that was cruel.

Then I got to thinking... at what point down the intelligence, or sophistication scale, is it OK to kill a living creature? Is a hamster more "special" than a mouse? I kill garage mice with traps and that seems to be acceptable to everyone.

In the Chicago area, if you run over a goose or duck, you'll get a ticket/fine. If you run over a rabbit or squirrel, it's not a problem.

From a moral perspective, why is a duck more precious than rabbit, or a Robin more precious than a mosquito? God created all of them, so in essence, every time we kill a life-form created by God, we're destroying a life that HE owns...not us.

What are each of your thoughts with this gray area of killing creatures that are less sophisticated than humans?

-CareWeMust

When its a spider.

a reply to: carewemust

Great OP, but there is no scale of killing gods creations, we just know they exist.... but does he ?

a reply to: carewemust

There are cultures that treat all life as sacred, irrespective of how man deems how developed or complex that life is. This stems from the philosophy that all life in the universe comes from (and returns to) a single source.

One thing that I noted during some time I spent with a tribe in PNG a few years back is, for instance, how in their huts and communal living areas were bugs and ants going about their business, neither of which seemed to be an issue for the folks. In fact, come to think of it, I saw them kill fish for eating and I saw remnants of wild boar as well.

So, even things I take for granted and use like fly spray, bug and bettle killer, snail killer etc etc goes against those philosophies. To an extent, western civilization has departed from the more earthly aspects of residing on a planet with countless other life forms.

IMO, octopus, dolphins, squid, cuttlefish, mantis shrimp among others, are equally if not more sophisticated than humans.

a reply to: carewemust

I'd rather be a hammer than a nail ...

😎

a reply to: carewemust

I tend to favour thinking about this in terms of a creatures self awareness.For me, the lower down the food chain, the less second thoughts tend to creep up about killing them.

I don't tend to kill for the sake of killing, but mosquitoes and other pests tend to receive less mercy when it comes to this.

I dont have an answer , but the garbage disposal method seems so gory and weird to me. I know what goes down the drain is nasty , but killing baby anything mammal in a garbage disposal seems so sickening.

originally posted by: carewemust
April 16, 2016

The other day, one of my kid's 5 dwarf hamsters had 7 babies. To keep things manageable going forward, I put 5 of the babies down the garbage disposal. My sister-in-law said that was cruel.

I just imagined you in a butcher's overall with a welder's mask to prevent blood-splatter absolutely stony-faced and remorseless stuffing them down while the kid screamed and cried in the background.

I guess the idea that they were pets and belonged to a kid kinda makes it seem worse than it is when you first hear it lol. I agree that we rank and favour animals weirdly depending usually on how cute or tasty they are. I usually don't kill anything unless it's a pest, mostly spiders that get too cocky and the occasional mouse. Ever since I was a kid I always try to judge an animals character, even if it's something with insect intelligence. I let a spider live once because I tried to kill it and it survived, then later that day I saw it run out like a lil warrior to try and annihilate a moth 3x its size. I admired its bravery, I felt like an emperor at the Colosseum giving pardon to a gladiator.

edit:
a reply to: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
So, even things I take for granted and use like fly spray, bug and bettle killer, snail killer etc etc goes against those philosophies. To an extent, western civilization has departed from the more earthly aspects of residing on a planet with countless other life forms.

That paragraph really struck me for some reason, good post.

a reply to: carewemust

Holy hell you put them down the garbage disposal? You sure she just didn't mean the way you went about it was cruel??

It is wrong to kill an animal for joy alone imo, but if it is something you have to do, you have to do it.

Hope you can take steps to prevent future babies if you plan to kill 5 outright.

a reply to: BelowLowAnnouncement

* I am now picturing the kiddy channel's version of ' Fargo' ... 😜

a reply to: carewemust

We are all in this together, right down to the smallest micro organisms, if you think it is ok to kill animals or insects you deem to be inferior that is on you....just remember we are all made of the same stardust no matter how big how small or how intelligent.....

ETA.....Oh yeah and karma is a bitch, i wonder if a passing alien intelligence could pass us and view us as inferior and spray us all with bug spray...

a reply to: carewemust

I couldn't have put them down the garbage disposal. I would raise them to health and release them to the wild. Both scenarios are messed up, but the garbage disposal death does not benefit the food chain, at least that I'm aware of.

a reply to: Boscov

Sewer rats ... maybe ?

😘

a reply to: carewemust

I think it's each to their own according to their conscience and within the laws of the land.

I was reading recently that there are about 100, 000 giraffes left and how elephants have passed the tipping point and are facing extinction (in the wild). Most of the big critters have been removed from existence in the past few thousand years.

We've replaced wild animals with billions of cattle, pigs and sheep and we're happily butchering them in their thousands every day. I mean, pigs are considered to be on the scale for sentience and they taste too damn bacony for that to matter.

We're presiding over the final days of some of the finest creatures on the planet and we'll tie ourselves in knots about that cute little dog tied up and barking outside the store. You know what I mean? We're emotionally invested in some animals and don't really give a crap about the rest.

The evidence says 'morality' doesn't really come into it beyond 'needs must.'

a reply to: Kandinsky

I go on walks regularly, and I will near trip myself and risk injury not to step on these toads hopping everywhere, because at some level I realize we are all alive and their desire to live is just as strong as mine, an insect in my home however is not so lucky so I guess that altruistic instinct doesn't apply to insects for me.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Fair enough.

If I go walking in bear country and get my face eaten off by a territorial bear, it's nature at work. I should have known better and so no tears. Same for swimming in the seas and some badass shark takes a chunk out of a leg - nature.

If a critter invades the home (rats, mice etc), it's probably within the rules to kill them. I don't kill bugs unless they've really encroached and some are like mindless little assholes intent on 'bugging' the hell out of people.

Life is so valuable we don't have the right to take it without reason (imo), but it's still natural to take some life, right? No harm, no foul.

a reply to: Kandinsky

I don't agree with that at all. We don't need meat, it's a luxury, not a necessity. If I had to kill a cow for my beef, I would become a vegetarian/fruitarian. I have no desire to kill animals. I also go out of my way to catch and release spiders. The only things I've ever killed have been insects that invade the house in swarms, to where I have no choice at that point.

I think it's each to their own according to their conscience

I know plenty of people who have absolutely no conscience when it comes to killing animals. It makes me question how much they favor human life, if it weren't illegal to kill human beings. In my opinion, if you can kill animals without remorse, you're essentially mentally/spiritually handicapped. Putting babies down the garbage disposal...seriously? How can anyone defend that act?

My family used to keep rabbits and one of them broke their leg. We're next to a bit of a "wild" area and because we couldn't afford the medical bills, I had to release him. I cried for a solid 5 - 10 minutes after that and to this day, I still regret it. It's one of my worst memories that I'll never forget. If you don't have an appreciation for life (large or small), why does your life matter? I would much rather live with unconscious innocent creatures than heartless conscious ones. Humanity is in desperate need of introspection.

My own grandpa, gloats about the ways he kills animals. He drowned a skunk one time and loved the adrenaline rush it gave him. I had another friend who stuck firecrackers in a cats butt and lit them...this world is full of heartlessness (insanity). Don't think for a second that rationalizing the killing of animals is any different than rationalizing murder.

This world never ceases to disgust me, oh vile and putrid beings we're becoming...perverted and deluded to our very core.

If you had left there she'd probably have eaten and killed most of them and done the deed for you. Hamsters are weird like that.

originally posted by: Puppylove
If you had left there she'd probably have eaten and killed most of them and done the deed for you. Hamsters are weird like that.

a reply to: Aedaeum

I don't agree with that at all. We don't need meat, it's a luxury, not a necessity. If I had to kill a cow for my beef, I would become a vegetarian/fruitarian. I have no desire to kill animals. I also go out of my way to catch and release spiders. The only things I've ever killed have been insects that invade the house in swarms, to where I have no choice at that point.

I can't remember the last thing I deliberately killed.

Whilst I agree with your points, you should also consider that we are animals too. It's natural for animals to eat other animals and we were eating animals from before we were able to chip an edge on a rock. Chimpanzees are close relatives and they are vicious little bastards.

If you get deep into what made Homo Sapiens so formidable, it was, in part, down to high levels of fats we got from being omnivorous. The intellect we have that can make the decision to be vegan, vegetarian owes itself to the varied diets of our distant ancestors.

There's also an argument that our commitment to farming has put paid to a lot of species. Agriculture has changed the face of the world and drastically affected most eco-systems in the past 7-8000 years.

What I'm trying to say here is that life is complex and with few obvious answers. There are many perspectives and I try to consider them all

I also admire your empathy, it can be a cross to bear.