To save his Middle East legacy, Obama must recognise a Palestinian state now

An opinion piece and an interesting read here, ATS. About the Middle East issue between Israel and Palestine, and why Obama needs to recognize a Palestinian state. According to the article, Netanyahu has done everything in his power to thwart any efforts by Obama at achieving peace just as administrations pre-Obama have also been thwarted. Will recognizing a Palestinian state be the answer?

Nonetheless, Obama knows very well who made him fail. Netanyahu repeatedly defied Obama: In Congress, he refused to engage in serious negotiations that could have led to an agreement, and he publicly lobbied against Obama’s election for a second term. Obama should not expect Netanyahu to change his position and cooperate on any renewed efforts that could save Obama’s failed legacy in the Middle East. This is the same Netanyahu whom Obama increasingly grew frustrated with throughout his presidency. With the remaining few months in office, the time has come for Obama to shape his legacy in the Middle East the way he wants it, not the way that Netanyahu has lobbied to characterize it. Obama has an opportunity to take his place in history as the first American president to officially recognize an independent Palestinian state.

So, what does ATS think? Is the answer to this whole Israeli/Palestinian conflict as simple as recognizing a Palestinian state? Will that put an end to the conflict? the illegal settlement building(s)? What does ATS think? I wanna hear what you have to say..........

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Laughable. If he was gunna, it'd be done already.

The only legacy he's gonna leave ... is being a worse president than Carter.

No. He's more likely to complete the pivot toward Shi'a Islam as the dominating force in the ME by releasing the docs that show 9/11 complicity on the part of the Saudis and let them crash the markets and bring down economic ruin.

Now, I don't agree with not doing something with the Saudis, but if you are serious about it, you better the heck be energy independent, and he's done everything to stifle that.

We also need to ask ourselves if it was better to maintain the balance of power with a stable ME or let the Shi'as and Iran take full control which is what it seems his pivot is enabling to have happen. Will a renewed Persian Empire be better for the world, and if the ensuing chaos going to be worth it in the long run?

Isn't there a lot of Palestinians not wanting to recognize Israel ?

Hasn't there been several rejections already ?

a reply to: lostbook


Ironic. No one gives a rat's ass about Palestine these days. Even Iran has it's hands full with issues far closer to home. Jordan, Egypt, even the Saudis are getting along with Israel better than any time in their history. Add in oil and natural gas development and Israel has never been in better shape in it's history.

Palestine has fallen off of just about everyone's 'to do' list. Even the 'Palestinian attacks have dropped off.....


A winner has been declared....it isn't Palestine....

originally posted by: ketsuko
No. He's more likely to complete the pivot toward Shi'a Islam as the dominating force in the ME by releasing the docs that show 9/11 complicity on the part of the Saudis and let them crash the markets and bring down economic ruin.

Now, I don't agree with not doing something with the Saudis, but if you are serious about it, you better the heck be energy independent, and he's done everything to stifle that.

We also need to ask ourselves if it was better to maintain the balance of power with a stable ME or let the Shi'as and Iran take full control which is what it seems his pivot is enabling to have happen. Will a renewed Persian Empire be better for the world, and if the ensuing chaos going to be worth it in the long run?

Excellent question(s). Time will tell....

The only legacy the USA will ever have in the middle east, is that everything they've done there has ultimately created more problems, and left the region far worse for it every time.

Sometimes things are so broken they are beyond repair, and efforts to fix it are not only futile, but can cause even more irreparable damage...

I do not know how you can recognize a state that does not have a single functioning government. It is like having two governments one Hamas the other Fatah that hate each other and are basically running the territories like two different nations. They signed a unity agreement in 2014 but, nothing ever came of it and Egypt just tried again to get them together. If the US were to recognize Palestine then a single unified government should be a prerequisite. Otherwise your recognizing something that does not exist. I think the US uses that carrot to get Palestine finely unify and end the in fighting because it will just end up a failed state if it does not.

That is going to take some time. Historians already rate the Obama Presidency in the mid teens so he really does not need any last second legacy building that could make it harder for whomever takes over.

Well the 700K + settlers in Authorised settlements and unauthorised settlements are not going to jump ship and move their communities into the part of Israel deemed Israel on some maps, 1967 changed that..

Reasons for settlements Jews who had been living in the West Bank before they were expelled in 1948 wanted to return home.[54] After the Six-Day War, some Israelis believed that war might break out again. They built settlements on hilltops to act as observation posts for an early warning system.[55] Israelis were afraid that if strategically important lands were returned, Israelis would be in danger. For years, Syria had been firing from the Golan Heights into the kibbutzim of the valley. If Syria got back the Golan Heights, they would resume firing on the Israelis below. Israelis remembered that after conquering the Sinai, Israel withdrew from the Sinai. If Israel constructed a military base, the soldiers could be ordered to leave, but if they created a "settlement on the Syrian heights – a civilian presence, then no one could just order a withdrawal. There'd have to be a debate in the Knesset."[56] There were Israelis who remembered that Israel had conquered the Sinai in 1956, but gave it back. "…the promises made by Eisenhower had proved hollow at the first test and had failed to prevent war…"[57] They were willing to return land, but only if Israel got a peace treaty in return. They were hoping that building settlements would make it more difficult for Israel to withdraw from land without getting a peace treaty in return. There were "Religious radicals, convinced that they were fulfilling God's plan for history…"[58] For Avraham Kook, "the Jews' role was to be the vessel that brings the "divine idea" into the world. The world's redemption depended on the Jews living in the Land of Israel"[59] Rabbi Tzvi Kook said…It's "the Lord's land. Is it in our hands to give up even a millimeter?" The State of Israel represented the "beginning of redemption" and was "the state that the prophets foresaw" when they spoke of the End of Days.[60] "…the Bible was the Jewish deed to the Land of Israel…"[61] "…the conquest as introducing the end of days, when 'nation shall not lift up sword against nation.'"[62] There were secular Israelis who saw "the West Bank as the historic patrimony of the Jewish people and control of this region as a matter of momentous historic importance."[55] Settlement building as punishment. "According to reports on Israel Radio, the development is a response to the 2014 kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers."[63] Settlements as bargaining chips for negotiations.[64]

en.wikipedia.org...

Hi lostbook,

For Obama "To save his Middle East legacy", in my humble opinion, all those civilians -men, women and children- killed by his drone-before-asking policy would have to be resurrected.

I mean, saving his ME legacy should depend on saving the innocent people that the Peace Nobel laureate has been unmercifully -or perhaps mercifully, who knows- murdering in all these years in Afganistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia... with his green-lighting the strikes.

www.washingtontimes.com...
theintercept.com...

But they cannot be saved. They are already dead. They have already been "collateral-effected" by Americans and rest in oblivion.

In a just world, Obama should be facing a trial in The Hague, just as Radovan Karadzic or Milosevic. George W. Bush, Putin, Aznar, Netanyahu, Erdogan, Assad, the Saudi Royal Highnesses (in plural) and the likes... A new Nuremberg trial scenario is badly needed for the humanity to address all the injustice and crime being perpetrated in our times.

Mr. Obama to "save face" could get back the close to $20B USD that Uncle Suga has sent to it's 51st State during His terms. That would be a good start...

www.businessinsider.com...

Evidently the US taxpayer spends more on Israeli defense than that of Israel's citizens. Heck, there are more Jewish folks living in New York City than in Israel, how about We (taxpayer) just send the $$$ to NYC? It would save on postage.

Then there is Ms. Clinton who is bed w/the Saud Roi who ALWAYS like to stir the pot...

Maybe Mr. Obama can date Caitlyn Jenner and at least We could get a chuckle as the hilarity ensues, what are We getting now? 'Snip' and shoved in it.

Those Zionist™ should at least be friendly as they spend our $$$

a reply to: valleean

Maybe the answer is that there is no answer. We should just leave it alone.

originally posted by: JimNasium
Mr. Obama to "save face" could get back the close to $20B USD that Uncle Suga has sent to it's 51st State during His terms. That would be a good start...

www.businessinsider.com...

Evidently the US taxpayer spends more on Israeli defense than that of Israel's citizens. Heck, there are more Jewish folks living in New York City than in Israel, how about We (taxpayer) just send the $$$ to NYC? It would save on postage.

Then there is Ms. Clinton who is bed w/the Saud Roi who ALWAYS like to stir the pot...

Maybe Mr. Obama can date Caitlyn Jenner and at least We could get a chuckle as the hilarity ensues, what are We getting now? 'Snip' and shoved in it.

Those Zionist™ should at least be friendly as they spend our $$$

You just described the situation. Israel gets a ton of money for "defense" from the US. If a peace deal is reached there won't be a US cash cow to withdraw from anymore. This is the real reason for the dilemma we have now in the M.E. Until this issue is addressed things will not change.

There is already a Palestinian state. It is called Jordan. Arabs living on the area between the pre-1967 cease fire line and the river Jordan occupy a part of the territory allocated for the Jewish homeland. Far from creating another Arab country called Palestine, that territory ought to be annexed by Israel and the population offered full citizenship.

originally posted by: ciscoagent
There is already a Palestinian state. It is called Jordan. Arabs living on the area between the pre-1967 cease fire line and the river Jordan occupy a part of the territory allocated for the Jewish homeland. Far from creating another Arab country called Palestine, that territory ought to be annexed by Israel and the population offered full citizenship.

This isn't a popular view, but it's an accurate one.
Palestinian government documents are rife with the real reasoning for the push for a state. It has nothing to do with disenfranchisement, and nothing to do with a 'native homeland' (which Israel isn't, for them).

I agree that the land should be annexed by Israel - I'd rather see it become part of Israel and have the Palestinians either accept Israeli citizenship or move to Jordan. Otherwise, we end up with the same issues: billions of 'relief' and 'aid' dollars being poured into a government that are used not for schools, not for infrastructure, not for homes, not for food, not for medicine or hospitals or public services... but for tunnels, and guns, and terror, and for making the rich richer (I'm looking at you, Mr. Arafat, Mr. Abbas).

Give the land to Israel. Give the Palestinians Israeli citizenship if they want it... or a homeland to return to if they want that (Jordan). Then, finally, perhaps the Palestinians will be something more than mere pawns in an Islamist game that only seeks Israel's destruction; not for political reasons, but for religious reasons.

...because - mark my words on this - until the Palestinian people are freed from the Palestinian leadership, they will never be anything other than a manipulated populace; puppets in a game they can never win... a brainwashed, religiously oppressed people living in squalor.

It doesn't have to be that way.

a reply to: lostbook

Obama will "recognize" ISIS before anything else.

a reply to: nwtrucker

No one gives a rat's ass about Palestine these days.

Yep . Not even the other Middle Eastern countries. Why ? Read a little history on the Palestinians in the Middle East..Interesting.

originally posted by: lostbook
To save his Middle East legacy, Obama must recognise a Palestinian state now

The Middle East legacy is violent insanity, and needs to be let die!
Palestine, Israel will remain such until they learn how to play nice with their neighbor!
They do not deserve their own state!
They need a 'keeper'!
Even their own 'relatives' in the area shun them!

Having personally been a part of one of the many failed processes ( Oslo Sept. 93 ) I can tell you know there is really not much point to any of it.
Even with Arafat and most of his cronies already gone, there is still no hope.

I think, a camel through the eye of a needle is the correct comparison.

originally posted by: flatbush71
Having personally been a part of one of the many failed processes ( Oslo Sept. 93 ) I can tell you know there is really not much point to any of it.
Even with Arafat and most of his cronies already gone, there is still no hope.

I think, a camel through the eye of a needle is the correct comparison.

"Camel thru the eye of a needle?" What does that mean?