Are there limits to free will?

originally posted by: akushla99
...some people conquer fear...that fear doesn't come from without...does it?

Å99

If that's what happens then that is what happens - apparent people get over fears.
Everything and anything can happen but no one is doing anything - all is being done.
It's just a movie that is being witnessed as it arises - it's just a show.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: akushla99
...some people conquer fear...that fear doesn't come from without...does it?

Å99

If that's what happens then that is what happens - apparent people get over fears.
Everything and anything can happen but no one is doing anything - all is being done.
It's just a movie that is being witnessed as it arises - it's just a show.

if you sit in a chair, in the corner of a darkened room...waiting for things to just 'happen' - you would never work the holidays, to raise the money, to enrol in the university, to study the psychology, to mount a study, to determine that you have no free will...

That's a comedy skit without equal...

...simple really...

Å99

There is no free will as such as every decision we make is a product of our past experiences and influences.

originally posted by: Scouse100
There is no free will as such as every decision we make is a product of our past experiences and influences.

...somewhat agree...

and what if those past experiences are realised by your own choice, and you choose what influences a future decision?

a lot of folk love the escape hatch of a responsibility dodge

if it at no point, are your decisions conscious or present at the pointy end of action - you are absolved of your predicament...

if at some point, you are aware that past influences and experiences play a part in a future action - how could you forget this to repeat a detrimental action that is not a result of the knowledge that it is detrimental?

Å99

a reply to: Profusion

This lead back to the question of is there even such a thing as free will. answer is no, we're just here watching as we ride.

a reply to: Profusion

You cannot even prove that free will exists. The question you should really be asking is 'under what conditions, if any, is it possible for a human being to successfully exert the power of their will?'

The answer, as far as I know, is 'none'.

We are, essentially, automatons with delusions of autonomy.

a reply to: akushla99

I have been reading your exchange with itsnowagain . Do you honestly believe the two of you are acting out of free will?

It is perfectly clear to an intelligent observer that you are each simply reacting when the other pushes his or her button.

The same, naturally, is true of my own post.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

If it is realized that thoughts just appear then it is obvious that there is no freewill.

Or, as Nietzsche put it in Beyond Good & Evil, Descartes was wrong because he failed to identify correctly just what it is that thinks.

It is not the self that originates thoughts. The self merely experiences thoughts.

a reply to: akushla99

But by my reasoning, as every choice is based upon past experiences and influences then that includes that choice to realise the past experience.

For me, the way we can make a decision is by weighing up (instantaneously at times) things that we know and have experienced before that moment. Having said that, I do feel part of this may be lead by genetic predisposition, but of course, that is also beyond our control.

Yes, I hear you about the escape hatch and some folk are more likely to use that than others, again based on their past experiences and even just having the knowledge that that is an option. Some may lie and blame certain past experiences for a 'bad' decision, when in fact it is a different set of past experiences that have lead then to that decision. They know (from past experience) that one set will garner more sympathy than the other.

Folk carry out detrimental actions all the time knowingly. Just because something is detrimental it doesn't mean someone will always decide not to do it. Perhaps they know they will get some instant gratification from it for example, and for them that outweighs the detriment, at least at the time of the decision.

My thoughts on this are really hard to put into words so I hope I am making sense

a reply to: Profusion

you conflate " free will " with "the fear of consequences of action "

originally posted by: akushla99
if you sit in a chair, in the corner of a darkened room...waiting for things to just 'happen' - you would never work the holidays, to raise the money, to enrol in the university, to study the psychology, to mount a study, to determine that you have no free will...

'Who' is waiting for things to happen?
Life is just happening - whatever is happening is all there is.

The assumption is that there is 'something' separate from life that can choose different from what IS happening.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Profusion

you conflate " free will " with "the fear of consequences of action "

How would you define "free will" if you were asked to give an objective definition?

a reply to: Profusion

You have already answered the question in the OP. As you said, it depends on the person and there is no absolute measure.

When we transcend our ego, we get to the "free will zone". This is where we are no longer subject to the ups and downs of our environment. We rise above everything and become immune to the currents and shed the false limitations.

I remember when I was in my 20s I had my first "connection" with the higher self. It felt like I could deal wiht any situation and the best way I could describe it was like walking above the heads of everyone. Since then , I always tune in upstairs whenever I am facing a mundane obstacle. This gives me access to several options which always make me land on my feet

a reply to: Dark Ghost

How would you define "free will" if you were asked to give an objective definition?

Excellent question.

Any attempt at an answer will demonstrate that free will does not exist.

Yeah.. Try floating and get back to me.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: akushla99
if you sit in a chair, in the corner of a darkened room...waiting for things to just 'happen' - you would never work the holidays, to raise the money, to enrol in the university, to study the psychology, to mount a study, to determine that you have no free will...

'Who' is waiting for things to happen?
Life is just happening - whatever is happening is all there is.

The assumption is that there is 'something' separate from life that can choose different from what IS happening.

...absolute rubbish my friend...

Å99

a reply to: Profusion

Love your post. Great discussion. The answer is yes. The limits are to what ends is the subject individual prepared to go to to survive. As an individual, if a person put a gun in my face and threatened to take me, my wife, my property I would say promptly, "# you, shoot me!", and then commence to beating some ass. It's 50/50 after that but I've been lucky so far.

...otherwise, whad'ya wanna do? lay down?

So by reading most of the comments I had to consult Google.

Definition of free will:

the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

So far in my life this is a belief that have contradictions. On one hand I believe everything happen for a reason. But that would imply there is a hand behind the scenes. So no free will? Right? But I also believe you have choices. So I can choose to not kill someone. You consciously making that decision. So from a religious aspect I believe God has a path or meaning for your life. But that would imply it was written before you were born. So to the best of my knowledge I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: akushla99

I have been reading your exchange with itsnowagain . Do you honestly believe the two of you are acting out of free will?

It is perfectly clear to an intelligent observer that you are each simply reacting when the other pushes his or her button.

The same, naturally, is true of my own post.

...who's 'pushing' whose buttons if free will doesn't exist?

ridiculous idiocy

Å99