Any music producers here at ATS

a reply to: DeathSlayer

The other thing I am going to add is labels don't like music already being on the web and available. They may put something in the co traxt that stipulates he can't put songs on the radio/net. Particularly if his name gets attached to the artist as songwriting credit (usually how you get royalties as well)

Get a lawyer. Even a contract lawyer not spwcicialized in the music biz will be better than nothing as far as interpreting legal jargon.

I have worked with songwriters who have said they don't even want live performances on YouTube.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: DeathSlayer

I am a sound engineer.

The best thing you can do is a get reputable lawyer.

With any label bit especially Columbia. They will be able to see what the contract really says as well as negotiate the terms you want. Royalties and things like that.

For those saying hold out for a smaller label . .well what Columbia is doing is offering to pay for songs. He isn't signing to the label.

Another important factor of getting a lawyer though is making sure your son stays a free agent meaning he doesn't have to only sell his songs to Columbia. If they do want exclusive rights to his songs they should have to pay extra and that should include royalties.

If they ask your son to be a so g writer you definitely want a lawyer. You can retain a lawyer or you can pay bases on reading the contract, reading and negotiating etc.

You may not trust lawyers but don't trust the label either.

Damn good info!

If they do want exclusive rights to his songs they should have to pay extra and that should include royalties.

I totally overlooked that! Thanks for the heads up. Colombia contract is hard to understand .... too much lawyer jargon.... been living in a law dictionary ..... constantly looking up some of the meaning of the words they use.....

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: DeathSlayer

The other thing I am going to add is labels don't like music already being on the web and available. They may put something in the co traxt that stipulates he can't put songs on the radio/net. Particularly if his name gets attached to the artist as songwriting credit (usually how you get royalties as well)

Get a lawyer. Even a contract lawyer not spwcicialized in the music biz will be better than nothing as far as interpreting legal jargon.

I have worked with songwriters who have said they don't even want live performances on YouTube.

I can tell you are the real deal......in both contracts it clearly says no more songs are to be released. and they go into great detail about this issue even being held liable....

Damn you guys know your stuff!

Ok, from my own experience. Back in the day, I got "Myspace Famous" for my music I was producing. I signed a contract, no advance, I was to produce a full album. It was a small Indie label. It was a non exclusive contract which allowed me to produce tracks for movies and things like that. I was also allowed to produce other artist all aside from my album.

Sometimes with a small label, they dont have the funds to promote you as well as a large label could. But you will have alot more freedom as an artist.

May I ask what type of music does your son make? That too can make a huge difference in pay and in ways he will make money.

In Hip Hop and EDM, there are alot of indie artist that make much more money by staying independent.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: DeathSlayer

The other thing I am going to add is labels don't like music already being on the web and available. They may put something in the co traxt that stipulates he can't put songs on the radio/net. Particularly if his name gets attached to the artist as songwriting credit (usually how you get royalties as well)

Get a lawyer. Even a contract lawyer not spwcicialized in the music biz will be better than nothing as far as interpreting legal jargon.

I have worked with songwriters who have said they don't even want live performances on YouTube.

I can tell you are the real deal......in both contracts it clearly says no more songs are to be released. and they go into great detail about this issue even being held liable....

Oh yeah definitely liable. It may also say they keep the songs and void the contract.

If your son wants to go the label route however, he will most likely want to not put songs on the net or radio anyway. I just wanted to give you a heads up as to what that means so he can decide if he wants to give up control. A lawyer obviously can also help negotiate the terms.

The other option is shopping him around as a songwriter. The same concepts most likely apply but it's more a steady paycheck type job. Sometimes they pay for housing and you get good studio and cowriting experience.
Columbia is a decent large label as far as payout but they can box in a writer pretty good if your not careful.

Songwriting is a good job. Especially if you can negotiate being able to perform your own music (sometimes under a different name different songs)

I don't know how much time you have, but I recommend you read these 2 books ASAP.

All You Need to Know About the Music Business

Confessions of a Record Producer

The first book tells you how the music business works in theory. The second book tells how it's done in practice, including the scams and shady stuff. They both go over contracts too, so you can just skip to those specific chapters if need be.

To be blunt, if the numbers that you mentioned in the OP are true, he doesn't need a record deal (especially if he's monetizing his views and listens). In other words, don't sign anything exclusive with them. And I mean nothing. Read the 2 books I listed and find a good book on music publishing and you're set. There are even other books and online guides to help you learn how to book shows.

Oh, here's how advances work (using $50,000 as an example):

They give you $50,000 as an advance to the artist or label or allocate $50,000 to your account while having someone else oversee it. That $50,000 is supposed to go towards a specific album, though people also may use it for personal funds. You won't get any more money from them until that $50,000 is paid back.

But here's the catch: if you sign a deal that only pays you 10% royalties, all $50,000 owed comes out of your 10%. So the project has to make $500,000 before you make another penny from it. And it gets worse depending on the contract, since they may slip in clauses that also make you liable for their costs. As in, if they then spend $100,000 on promotion, they'll also try to take that money out of your portion of the profits.

Oh, that's for record deals. Publishing deals are a completely different can of worms, hence why you should read a book on publishing. Technically I'm still a publisher with ASCAP, but I do everything public domain now. So I don't know the business anymore. But basically, a publisher will buy the song from you then give you 50% of any profits made from it (it's literally divided into publisher royalties and songwriter royalties). The publisher's job is to find artists to record your song and get as many people as they can to play your song. But if you're a popular enough artist, you don't need that. So publishers will often settle for a 10-15% administration fee while you keep ownership of the copyright (after all, 10% of a lot is better than 50% of nothing).

Publishing royalties are earned from songs played in movies, on radio, internet radio, commercials, on tv, when recorded on albums, etc. Album royalties (called mechanical royalties) are around 9cents per song per album sold (here), while the rates for most other things are negotiable. You can literally make millions by having your song be the theme in a movie or tv series, and you'll get paid every time it's aired.

ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC are agencies that collect royalties then disperse them to the specific writers and publishers. I think ASCAP and BMI are free to join (I joined ASCAP in 2001), so I'd advise you sign him up if he hasn't already.

(note: I ran an underground record label for several years and then did independent production and promotion for several more years. The one time I managed an artist burned me out so much that I quit the business lol. Ok technically, it was that and the constant overlapping of the drug world and the music world that pushed me out of it but whatever. It's not like I'm still bitter over it...)

Deathslayer,

Any way you can link to his sound cloud? I am curious to hear.
I am his age and I also make music (drums for a metal band and also compose/produce experimental electronica and ambient for fun, small soundtracks) so I am curious to hear for sure.

Good luck with everything!