Rape Culture

a reply to: RedCairo

The analogy doesn't quite work for me.
The man's dress is only seen as an issue in certain areas, yet it doesn't matter where a woman is attacked, someone will blame her dress.

In both cases though, 100% of the blame lies with the attacker.

SprocketUK:

The question isn't whether a rapist is wrong. Of course they're wrong. It's illegal and immoral.

The OP's point was that as a cultural push, feminism has essentially tried to imply all men are rapists and that women have zero responsibility for any intelligent behavior that might actually be self-protective.

Criminals are a small % of the population. Most men are not rapists. And women are just as responsible for foresight in their own defense as anybody else.

We don't live in the world of five year olds where everybody is good (Barney-land). Modern civilization is a jungle of its own kind. This may not be what we want but this is the way reality IS.

Acting like that is not reality ends up bringing harm to people who could have avoided it.

Seriously, don't people have parents and grandparents who give them decent advice anymore?

Are the vast majority of innocent men bad/guilty because a small % of both genders are criminals and women behaving without any forethought to their own well-being eventually run into some man who is bad?

"Blame" goes to the criminal but shouldn't some "responsibility" go to anybody old enough to leave the house on their own on a Friday night?

RC

a reply to: rockintitz

Rape has been a big part of rights for a while. It wasn't all that long ago feminists done good work on the issue of rape in marriage. It's hard to believe but it was once seen as a right given up when commited to a marriage.The right to say NO.

Now saying a rape culture exists however is a touchy subject and one I probably wouldn't say is real in my opinion but a mind frame of "she asked for it" has and does exist and it's suprising how common this can be. We also have problems with people looking at others as property.

People like to mention Sweden when mentioning Europe and a rape culture but let us not forget the Eastern European nations and prostitution or profit from rape because that is what it is. The majority of these sex slaves don't know their rights.

Rape culture? No it's ignorant culture.

That is what it boils down to... Rights and obviously the world needs more education on rights. Including new age feminists because all men have a right to not be prejudiced against.

I actually think that many of the women who defend the current gender-feminist claims only do so because they honestly have not seen what is really going on in this field particularly from the college level.

There are actual incidents (recorded on video. Documented by police. And more) where for example:

* Woman has boyfriend she's sleeping with for three months. One day they break up, her whim not his, and that night she actually chooses to crawl into bed with him. He wants sex, she doesn't, so it stops. Later he gets amorous again and she agrees and they have sex. The end, time marches on. TWO WEEKS LATER she claims it was rape, even though she admits to getting in bed with him and allowing him to take off her clothes and not resisting at all that they were (as they had been for months) having sex. But now he needs to go to prison for years? Really?

*Snip*

* If two people have been drinking, and I am not talking about "unconscious" here I am merely talking about some intoxication, and they have mutual consensual sex, it is later claimed that it is rape simply "because the woman had been drinking" -- the assumption being she could not possibly have given consent (unless unconscious, of course she could have, and how do we measure what 'degree' of alcohol is too much?) -- even if the man had also been drinking (mysteriously it excuses her but not him. Try telling this to cops about any other crime committed while intoxicated, such as robbery or car accidents). This happens even when the man was the one drinking and not the woman.

* Examples abound -- way too many -- where it is openly claimed that even though a woman had consensual sex with a man, if she decides -- even days, weeks, months later -- that she doesn't feel right about it, then the man is retroactively guilty of rape because apparently it wasn't REALLY consensual she and he only thought it was at the time but now she knows better. This is so completely asinine it's hard to believe anybody not on drugs or brain-damaged could even make a claim like this, in fact I seriously think people should have to get some kind of psychological review if they really believe the horrific ruin of any person's life is justified based on this logic -- but it is pervasively done and I might add, this is a good part of what affects "survey respondents" who say "Yes I was raped or sexually abused."

As a result, basically any statistics not taken properly by a third party are total junk.

Once you can declare nearly anything as constituting 'rape' the definition of rape is pointless. Real rape is never ok not in any situation. But by trashing the definition of rape by including in it endless examples of things that by no fair definition should be called rape, we ruin that word's meaning. The penalty even of accusation, never mind successful trial applied to a man is so ruinous, just as if he were a violent criminal when so often he's clearly not, that at this point a lot of people are just losing respect for the whole over-hysterical over-claimed crying-wolf rape stats that the gender-feminists keep promoting.

Men and women have to live together in our world. Victimizing men horribly and using as the "bully leverage" that men are allegedly victimizing women in situations that are clearly not rape by any sane measure, is not just a pathetic example of a feminist pathology gone wrong, it's a frankly criminal example of the utter abuse of a social system (never mind legal system) for the utter destruction of innocent men's lives.

(I am a woman btw.)

RC

a reply to: RedCairo

It's not about Barney land.
It's about a person's right to walk down a busy street unmolested.

By even considering there is some merit to the idea a woman bears a small responsibility for the crime that is committed against her by not covering up we give credence to the moronic elements that perpetuate these crimes.

There are areas in most towns that aren't safe for outsiders unless they are lucky to look threatening enough to give pause to the scumbags.

The idea of a rape culture probably stems from a generalised view of a rape victim as always having done something wrong. Either she was too pretty, dressed provocatively, too friendly, too drunk too anything.

I agree with the female feminists on this to a degree. More people need to understand what a scummy subhuman act rape is.

a reply to: rockintitz

www.telegraph.co.uk...

From the telegraph, not exactly a bastion of right on feminism.

originally posted by: dollukka
Im not a feminist but when it comes to right to defend yourself. How women dresses shouldn´t be a cause to minimizing her value as a member of society nor reduce her value in the eyes of the law.
I have been in US and what i found very odd was, when people commented young teenage girls way to dress themselves as a "asking for being raped" WHAT ??? .. Now you see.. it is imbedded even in average verbal communication.

Eh?? What hellhole ghetto did you visit over here that says clothing = asking for it? I think maybe you're mixing up "asking for rape" with "dressing like a whore". The second comment merely denotes walking trash of little use with a comical lilt (the getting paid/whore aspect) Those aren't that hard to keep separate, literal comments and humorous ones. I've seen plenty of girls/women walking around looking like the corner dime-a-trick prostitute in my time. That doesn't mean I think they're asking to get unwillingly boned. I just call it like I see it, oh well.

And yes Domo, modern feminists are indeed dicks of the highest order. Control freaks like no other, and with less class lately than common degenerates even.

But you have created some strawmen that don't exist, so taking those down does not refute OP's point.

originally posted by: SprocketUKIt's about a person's right to walk down a busy street unmolested.

1. Sure. Mugging and rape are both crimes. Did anybody say they weren't crimes? They're already crimes. Nobody disputes this. I have never seen anybody dispute this.

2. There is this idea that expecting anybody to be responsible with consideration for 'reality' and 'their well-being' somehow is "excusing" someone else's criminal behavior. It is never doing that.

We teach children to "look both ways" when crossing the street even in a crosswalk, even though "the law" says if they're in the crosswalk they have the right-of-way. Because we want them to be safe. NOT because drivers are less responsible for following traffic laws. Not because their jaywalking or being small would make a driver 'less' responsible. But because we want the child to be safe.

Why can't we want women to be safe and if we do, can't we at least teach them the equivalent of looking both ways, rather than spending all the focus-time on how unfair it is that some small % of drivers don't look for people in the crosswalk? I mean we can work on educating drivers all day but can't we also work on educating the people who walk?

Yet by the approach taken by gender-feminism (not equality-feminism, the other branch which is diff), if we ever suggest a person look both ways and not enter the crosswalk unless it's safe, we are somehow magically removing responsibility from any driver that might run them over. That's ridiculous. It is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE to say that one person is responsible for their own well-being without diminishing the full responsibility of a crime against them as being the criminal's fault.

Also: criminal rapists know rape is wrong. "Teaching men that rape is wrong" is the stupidest, most insulting thing ever -- I never met a man who did not know that rape was wrong. What is really meant is "teaching criminals to just say no!" -- good luck with that. But all men are not criminals.

By even considering there is some merit to the idea a woman bears a small responsibility for the crime that is committed against her by not covering up we give credence to the moronic elements that perpetuate these crimes.

I don't understand what part of the mind cannot separate these two things of responsibility for a crime vs. responsibility for oneself. Everyone has the 'right' to be anywhere public, dress like anything, but in the real world, some % of the population are criminals. They are responsible for their criminal acts, whether they are mugging a man for his rolex or raping a woman for her body. The crime is theirs. This is never in doubt, the responsibility for the crime is not mitigated by anything the victim does.

But this endless whining for how reality "should" be doesn't change the reality of humanity. I don't consider us in a rape culture, I consider us in a human culture where every form of rape, robbery, and other forms of "forced competition" have always (and probably will always) exist. Whether in the jungle, the industrial age or the modern city, these things have always been with us. Endless head-battering about "oh, the unfairness that the world in this area can't be totally crime-free no matter what!" is so useless and even harmful to those we're not educating to AVOID crime -- as if their becoming responsible for themselves, for avoiding it where it's a higher likelihood than most situations, would somehow make criminals less responsible.

The responsibiity of a criminal for a crime is one thing and is not mitigated by anything the victim does.

The responsibility for intelligent self-protective behavior of every kind -- and avoidance of situations highly likely statistically to include mugging or rape at some point eventually -- is a totally separate thing.

These things co-exist in parallel. One does not reduce or inflate the other.

The idea of a rape culture probably stems from a generalised view of a rape victim as always having done something wrong. Either she was too pretty, dressed provocatively, too friendly, too drunk too anything.

Well in the modern truly hysterical and blanket-brush-as-all-men-as-criminal social activism, I think it stems from modern gender-feminism being convinced that women have no responsibility for themselves, and that expecting them to take responsibility for their own well-being would be an unreasonable hardship, and would magically make criminals "less" criminal.

More people need to understand what a scummy subhuman act rape is.

But see you just jumped back to the strawman again.

Who ever said rape wasn't bad? Who? Where?

That isn't what the feminists are saying because EVERYONE is saying that even men.

In any population some small % of people are criminals and statistically, if you are in social settings that either have many people or that are known to draw the kind of people (criminals) you don't want, one should be wary and perhaps avoid those situations altogether or take some other steps for proactive self-preservation.

(For example I saw recently a kind of underwear that literally cannot be gotten through, around, or removed, without the woman's participation. Awesome. See, this is intelligent, proactive planning to enable women to go into even the more dangerous situations (e.g. drunken frat parties) and be safer. More power to the young women who developed that.) But that really is merely another form of "self-protection" -- good! Also avoiding dark streets while wearing a rolex, and frat parties at all let alone while dressed sexily, might also be self-protective and good.

Culturally we are never discussing whether rape is ok because it's never ok. We are never discussing whether any element of the victim makes a criminal less responsible for being a criminal because they are always 100% responsible for their criminal behavior.

RC

Real rape culture is Muslim immigrants making Sweden the rape capital of Europe in just a fee short years.

1 IN 4 SWEDISH WOMEN WILL BE RAPED AS SEXUAL ASSAULTS INCREASE 500%

Sweden now has the second highest number of rapes in the world, after South Africa, which at 53.2 per 100,000 is six times higher than the United States. Statistics now suggest that 1 out of every 4 Swedish women will be raped.

www.frontpagemag.com...

But not a peep from so-called feminists and the far left.

Real rape culture is 80% of illegal immigrant women and children crossing the Mexican bord being raped by their travel companions.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

80% Of Central American Women, Girls Are Raped Crossing Into The U.S.

But Trump gets crucified by the feminists and leftist media for relaying this fact.

a reply to: Nyiah

Los Angeles ( thats where i heard the phrase) at universal studios.

For examples, watch Ross Kemp Britain Series Episode Child Sexual Exploitation

"The actor explores the disturbing extent of child abuse in the UK, with one in four children sharing sexual images or videos of themselves as well as a growing number addicted to pornography and many having been sexually abused. He meets someone who was encouraged from the age of 12 to perform explicit sex acts on camera to be viewed online and also hears from a former gang member who describes how some gangs entice girls with drink, drugs and presents in order to use them for sex."

This episode can explain quite allot since it does ask questions from the young generation, they are the most easiest target to influence so they have picked up quite few things from what seems like master for western cultures.
These kids grow up thinking rape is "normal" and so naturally rape and other crazy stuff will just skyrocket in our societies.

a reply to: Deny Arrogance

Sweden is not the 'rape capital' of Europe. Sweden just measures sexual crime figures differently from just about anywhere else. (It takes about ten seconds to confirm this on Google)
The claim is nonsense and it's persistent use on cetain sites to try and make a point about immigration is frankly reprehensible.

a reply to: ScepticScot

It is indisputable fact using the Swedish governments own statistics, which are actually skewed to downplay the rape crisis.

It takes about ten seconds to confirm this on google.

Rape deniers trying to downplay muslim immigrant rape culture is frankly reprehensible.

In 1975, the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to change the former homogeneous Sweden into a multicultural country.

Forty years later the dramatic consequences of this experiment emerge: violent crime has increased by 300%.

If one looks at the number of rapes, however, the increase is even worse. In 1975, 421 rapes were reported to the police; in 2014, it was 6,620. That is an increase of 1,472%. Sweden is now number two on the global list of rape countries. According to a survey from 2010, Sweden, with 53.2 rapes per 100,000 inhabitants, is surpassed only by tiny Lesotho in Southern Africa, with 91.6 rapes per 100,000 inhabitants.

www.gatestoneinstitute.org...

a reply to: dollukka

I think the evidence you provided is a large part of the miscommunication on the issue.

"Rape" and "Sexual Assault" are not synonyms.

The standard for what's considered a "Sexual Assault" are extremely low compared to an actual case of "Rape".

As an example, male sports locker rooms abound with friendly "spanks" to fire up team mates (or at least they did back in the day). A spank here, a towel snap there, no "sexual intentions" at all; however, each one of those instances could legally be considered a "Sexual Assault" if the victim so chooses to pursue the matter.

It's things like this that make Sexual Assault statistics meaningless when it comes to supporting notions of an alleged "Rape Culture". Yet every time I see someone claiming there's a "rape culture" they turn to Sexual Assault statistics instead of actual Rape Statistics because the relevant statistics simply aren't enough to support the hypothesis of there being a "rape culture" here in the U.S..

Rape culture? In the West? Pffft, give me a gosh damned break. You want to know about real rape culture? How about:

* India- some villages use rape as punishment. Never mind the near endless news stories of women and girls raped on public transport and then thrown out the back. Fathers, if they can afford it, are sending their daughters out of the country to prevent rape.
* Morocco- women were often forced to marry their rapists.
* Afghanistan- just google the whole dancing boy spectacle. Or maybe, save yourself the heartbreak and don't.
*Prisons- eh, but they're mostly men who've committed crimes, so who cares? Right? /s

Rape does happen in the West- by an extremely small number of perpetrators, and no sane person finds it acceptable when it happens. Just because it does happen, doesn't mean it's culturally acceptable, because It never gets normalized unless the victims are male.

Thanks, OP. Much needed thread.

a reply to: dollukka

Everyone has a personal space, no matter how they look or dress shouldn´t be a cause of a rape nor reduce a reputation, and rape when it happens should be judged as a crime it is and something mentioned before shouldn´t be a reason for perpetrator to get "out of jail card".

There's a lot of sicko's out there. Dressing provocatively can increase the chances in attracting the sex crime element in society. I always stressed to my daughter growing up, the way you dress can dictate the type of guy you attract. Do you want a guy that simply sees you as a sex object or someone who appreciates and respects your intelligence, beauty and personality instead of just your assets? Today, many women don't leave much to the imagination. Sometimes I have to wonder why some bother wearing clothes at all!

Some women are attracted to a man's muscular body, yet ignore the man's true personality all together. I have a niece who is attracted to men like this. Every one of them had a drug addiction and were physically abusive. I'm not saying all physically fit men are like this, what I am saying, sometime the physical attractions makes a person ignore the true personality of the person.

You can dress sexy without exposing all your assets for the world to see.

a reply to: dollukka

cloths dont cause rape rapist cause rape, and by the way men get raped as well. guess who are the culprits, rapists.

If u do want to talk about women's cloths though ill bite, if a women wears next to nothing and walks down the street they will get attention and they know it, that's why they did it. In no way is it a cause for rape, because if you go ask the majority rape victims you will find they wore all types of cloths before they were raped.

so this whole thing about women should just be able to wear what ever they want without the fear of rape is moot because no matter what men and women wear they will still get raped by rapists. Maybe all of us should be on are toes when we are by our selves and start thinking about the people we surround our selves with.

For instance I stay out of prison.

originally posted by: FatherStacks
Rape does happen in the West- by an extremely small number of perpetrators, and no sane person finds it acceptable when it happens. Just because it does happen, doesn't mean it's culturally acceptable

And there's the key. It would need to be considered culturally acceptable to really qualify as a "Rape Culture", and that's just not the case in the west. Here in the U.S., about the only thing that's considered worse than a rapist is a child molester (and they're largely considered to be the lowest life form on earth here).

Rape is not the least bit "culturally accepted" in the west. It is a horrendous crime, and recognized as such.

double

blooming heck