MMR Vaccine, recurring rash on my baby, advice?

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

1. "Inconsolable crying" is a common vaccine side effect. It's definitely not "normal". 4 hours duration means that your child likely had/has a brain infection. It probably did damage.

2. The symptoms you are seeing is what is known as atypical measles. The child's immune system is struggling to clear infection because it was injected under the skin and did not present as a measles infection should/would in the wild.

The recurrence of the rash with concurrent infection indicates autoimmune dysfunction which is a fairly typical result from vaccination. You will never get answers from MD.s and particularly pediatricians. They know virtually nothing about vaccines and toxicology. "Smart vaxxing" is an oxymoron. Your child now needs your love in the most desperate way. You must learn enough to evaluate and mitigate this damage. It won't be easy.

a reply to: Gothmog

I agree. Get the specialists name now from the doctor so if/when it happens again you can get right in.

Has the pediatrician done any labs? From OP

So, back in August he got the MMR and that afternoon broke out in a measles like rash all over his body, mainly on the torso, with clusters in his armpits and groin. But otherwise fine. No big deal, that's how vaccines work. They are intentionally introducing weakened or killed versions of the disease they are vaccinating against. I get it.

Then, in November he came down with a stomach virus AND the measles like rash again. Took him to the doc. Doc said it was German Measles but could not possibly be caused by the vaccine because it had been two months.

Labs? Does he know that Rubella IS the German measles? If your child got a vaccine for it, why would he be breaking out with it...3 times?

Maybe check out a new pediatrician.

Thank you all for the responses!

Update:
Just got back from the Health and Human Services Immunization Clinic, where he got the Hep B. The nurse there- 11 years experience- was super cool and informative as possible.

Fact 1: The vaccine he got back in August was the MMRV, not just the MMR. (personally I think it's dumb to vaccinate against chicken pox, I got them as a kid and it was no big deal...but whatevs, obviously I'm not running the show on vaccine schedules)

Fact 2: She says the rash after the vaccine is common. (stats say 5%, but according to nurses and doctors I think that number is actually much higher)

Fact 3: She says she's never heard of the rash recurring, but my kid could be one in a million with a weird side effect.

Fact 4: The booster isn't due until he's 4, which is a HUGE relief. That should give his little body enough time to filter out whatever this is.

Recommendation: The nurse advised dividing the vaccine into MMR and V separately so that I could know for sure what's causing the reaction.

I will say the rash looks far more measle-y and not really chicken pox-y at all.

Dawnstar....thanks so much for your input! I looked up shingles and herpes zoster on toddlers and this isn't clustered like the pictures. I wish I could post a pic, but I didn't take a pic when it was bad and it's mostly bumps that you can see better in certain light so I'm not sure how well it would photograph anyway. The only time it really clustered was when he first got the vaccine and it was thicker in his armpits and groin.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

1. "Inconsolable crying" is a common vaccine side effect. It's definitely not "normal". 4 hours duration means that your child likely had/has a brain infection. It probably did damage.

2. The symptoms you are seeing is what is known as atypical measles. The child's immune system is struggling to clear infection because it was injected under the skin and did not present as a measles infection should/would in the wild.

The recurrence of the rash with concurrent infection indicates autoimmune dysfunction which is a fairly typical result from vaccination. You will never get answers from MD.s and particularly pediatricians. They know virtually nothing about vaccines and toxicology. "Smart vaxxing" is an oxymoron. Your child now needs your love in the most desperate way. You must learn enough to evaluate and mitigate this damage. It won't be easy.

I don't give a f*ck how 'normal' the side effect 'fussiness' is following any vaccine. When he got the DTaP there was something seriously wrong. I live in the country and definitely want him vaccinated against Tetanus, but I REFUSE to give him the Pertussis again. I even told his doctor I'll take my chances with whooping cough before I take my chances with encephalitis.

As for the rest of your post, I totally agree. It seems to me that he contracted some form of measles from the vaccine and his body has yet to overcome it. Whenever he's immunocompromised now (ear infection, stomach flu) it crops back up. I have already sent the affidavit to my state saying he will NOT get the Pertussis vaccine again. I'm just trying to figure out if I should do the same for the MMR or MMRV. Right now the symptoms are relatively benign, but the question is...how much worse will it get if they inject him again?

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I recommend finding a new doctor that shows at least some sincere skepticism about the outright perfection of vaccines (not an "anti-vaxxer," per se, but someone who at least knows that they can affect each individual differently and isn't afraid to look at the vaccine as a possible cause of the recurring rash.

I truly despise doctors who ignore things and just mutter the words, "It's probably due to [insert unconfirmed issue here]." I see them as lazy and unwilling to put their patient's health as a priority.

We had to go through quite a few before we found one similar to what I describe. He's great.

Good luck, regardless--unknown medical problems can cause a lot of stress and worry. I wish your son the best.

ETA: It seems like you've searched through several pediatricians with no luck. I'd find some local homeschooling forums and see if they have any recommendations--it seems like they tend to know which doctors are good about vaccine skepticism (or at least don't push them in an or-else-your-kid-will-die sort of way) and will probably be more than willing to help you in your search.

originally posted by: StoutBroux
a reply to: Gothmog

I agree. Get the specialists name now from the doctor so if/when it happens again you can get right in.

Has the pediatrician done any labs?
Labs? Does he know that Rubella IS the German measles? If your child got a vaccine for it, why would he be breaking out with it...3 times?

Maybe check out a new pediatrician.

Yeah, no labs. All guesswork. When I brought him in the second time the doc pussy-footed around and gave the technical name and only at the end of the visit kind of mumbled German Measles. He knew I would jump on that since I came in saying it looked like measles.

Over the years I've been to several pediatricians (I have a 7 year old daughter too) and no matter how good they are in other areas they're all cookie cutter when it comes to vaccines. It's really Twilight Zone, like they're reading from a script. "Vaccines are perfectly safe. I've never seen an adverse reaction. It's better to give them all at once, less visits, less shots for the kid and it's cheaper!"

That's why, sadly, I'm having to figure this crap out for myself and consult with Dr. Google and ATS members for advice.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I've researched the severe side effects, including death, of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella, and I avoid that vaccination in my children.

Honestly, I wouldn't vaccinate against anything until you get this issue figured out. Vaccines dick around with the immune system in a way that was not intended naturally--if you even suspect that his immune system is compromised because of the way that this rash/measles keeps recurring, I would avoid anything that purposefully stresses the immune system at all. It's a valid reason, and if any doctor tells you otherwise, like I said before, I'd find a new one.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

oh I love this pic

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Fact 1: The vaccine he got back in August was the MMRV, not just the MMR. (personally I think it's dumb to vaccinate against chicken pox, I got them as a kid and it was no big deal...but whatevs, obviously I'm not running the show on vaccine schedules)

Let me apologize in advance for something that you may not want to hear. No , in most cases chicken pox in young uns is nothing but a discomfort, However , shingles when older due to having chicken pox while young is.It is debilitating. One of the most painful diseases you can have. My wife had shingles not that long ago.For 3 months. And there is not much that can be done for it but let it run its course.And paste to ease the pain.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

My doctor isn't even the problem. I think he's realized how hard headed I am and has conceded just to play along.

The problem is the school. Jackson goes to Head Start. Even though he's been getting them on a delayed schedule, with documentation from the doctor explaining his adverse reactions....they still threatened to kick him out. I had to file a notarized affidavit with the state saying why he wouldn't get the Pertussis again. And I had to submit another one basically saying I want him exempt from all of them, just so he could be on the delayed schedule so I can monitor for side effects. So, technically and legally he doesn't have to have ANY but I'm still getting pressure to get him ALL. And when he starts Elementary I'm anticipating a fresh round of BS. I will probably have to re-file the affidavits.

Government in action, y'all!

a reply to: Gothmog

Don't apologize, I'm all for open discussion. And I understand the mentality of give a shot, bypass the disease. Even when generally the disease isn't all that bad, but can come with serious risks.

A quick search found this though:

Shingles is caused by the Varicella Zoster virus, the same virus that causes chickenpox.

Only someone who has had chickenpox – or, rarely, has gotten chickenpox vaccine – can get shingles. The virus stays in your body, and can cause shingles many years later.

CDC

I'm sorry about your wife. But it's also possible to develop shingles from the vaccine as well as the disease itself.

IDK, I just feel like required vaccines should be at a bare minimum. Only really bad diseases that you actually have a chance of catching. I'm 100% pro polio vaccine. Polio is a b*tch. I'm not for vaccinating a newborn against Hepatitis when no one in the family has Hepatitis. I worked 7 years as a nursing assistant and 7 years as a cop and never caught it, how the heck is a newborn going to catch it?

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

No one knows what the next vaccination will do. They are all a little different. You don't need tetanus vax BTW.

It doesn't work. Arguably, none of them do. separating the fact from myth/marketing is a huge task. But as you point out, look at what is at stake.

www.nvic.org

www.learntherisk.org

Link to vaccine studies ignored by pro-vaxxers

www.pharmadeathclock.com

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

My doctor isn't even the problem. I think he's realized how hard headed I am and has conceded just to play along.

He sounds like the problem--it shouldn't take stubbornness and hardheadedness to get him to "play along" with your concerns.

We'll be putting our 12-year-old back into the public school system--can't wait to see was BS concerning vaccinations comes along with that. Luckily, I think we can opt out, but who knows anymore.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I'm glad you took him to get a professional opinion about on it, much better advice than we could give you. that's a cute pic of your baby and the cat by the way..

Little raised bumps sounds like contact dermatitis, an allergy. I get that from cat or dog saliva.


Edited to add: Please don't listen to the advice of anti-vaccination people. Vaccines are safe and proven science. And save so many lives.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Damn! You're right. And the Tetanus was one of the few I was totally 'pro' about.
Truth about Tetanus vaccine



It doesn't specifically address my current dilemma, but here's an interesting article on Measles and Measles Vaccines:
Measles Article

This International Medical Council on Vaccination is a pretty interesting website. I basically agree with what they're presenting.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

On that note, insist on labs. This is black and white. No guesswork. No delays. Insist on the specialist as well. I would actually threaten legal action if the doc won't do the labs. No skin off his nose. That's what I told a doc once when he wouldn't do what I asked. I said "what skin off your nose is it? I'm paying for it. What's the problem? I want to know what's going on." They don't really have a valid comeback to that. Sometime you have to get tough with doctors. I would also DEMAND a specialist referral under the same quote above.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
LOL! The dogs chase the cats out of the house, that was a one time photo op.

He has no allergies to anything that I know of. He eats peanut butter, strawberries, eggs, milk...no problem. No allergies to pollen or animals.

And the rash isn't like a flat, hives/allergy rash. It's little, raised, red bumps...almost like pimples but there's not actual blisters. The aggravating factors: first time-MMR second time-stomach flu third time-ear infection

For every vaccine, you need a medium to grow your pathogens in (pathogens which are neutralized after being grown, but will still trigger an immune response.) In the past, the pathogens were grown in animal tissue, such as dog, monkey, cat, etc. If there was an adverse reaction to vaccines grown in animal tissue, the worst that would happen is you would get an allergy for that animal. Vaccines have been the reason for pet allergies in the past.

May be Cat or Dog (or other) depending on the medium for this particular vaccine used. Try subjective isolation for 24hrs after the rash appears to see if there is any improvement.

CbG

a reply to: StoutBroux

You're 100% right. The only way to know what's going on for sure is blood work. This last batch is still faintly visible but subsiding. Do you think blood work would help at this point? Or should I just wait until the next outbreak is in full force?

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

1. "Inconsolable crying" is a common vaccine side effect. It's definitely not "normal". 4 hours duration means that your child likely had/has a brain infection. It probably did damage.

2. The symptoms you are seeing is what is known as atypical measles. The child's immune system is struggling to clear infection because it was injected under the skin and did not present as a measles infection should/would in the wild.

The recurrence of the rash with concurrent infection indicates autoimmune dysfunction which is a fairly typical result from vaccination. You will never get answers from MD.s and particularly pediatricians. They know virtually nothing about vaccines and toxicology. "Smart vaxxing" is an oxymoron. Your child now needs your love in the most desperate way. You must learn enough to evaluate and mitigate this damage. It won't be easy.

Did someone say your name 3 times oh anti-health purveyor?

Let's have a look at your "diagnosis".

1. Prolonged crying is quite common after vaccines. Whilst 4 hours is probably at the end of the range, having worked with sick kids for 30 years it's not unusual. It really isn't.
So no, the boy's brain isn't damaged by it.

2. Remote diagnosis by description is never a good thing to so. It's usually incorrect.
Atypical measles cannot occur with today's MMR vaccine as long as it "takes". It used to happen with the older killed virus MMR but not now.
Your description of how atypical measles starts is false and nonsensical as there's a described pathological way it occurs and it's not your one.

Raw recurrence of a rash does not indicate an autoimmune dysfunction and is not associated with vaccines.

Talk to someone who works day-in and day-out treating children in a clinical practice and please don't take advice of a fear-mongering, rabid anti-vaxxer on a conspiracy site.
I guarantee they know far more about it than this individual.