MMR Vaccine, recurring rash on my baby, advice?

A little history:
I waited until he was 6 months old to give him his first vaccine (DTaP) and he screamed incessantly for 4 hours straight. The pediatrician claims 'fussiness is normal' and he's 'never seen an adverse reaction to a vaccine' (which I doubt). Anecdotal evidence from the good ol' internet says that the reaction was probably to the Pertussis part of the vaccine. A year and a half later he got just the DT without the Pertussis part and was fine. (I add this info to demonstrate that he does have a sensitivity to vaccines)

Since then he's gotten all his other vaccines, one at a time, to monitor for reactions. Today I take him for Hep B and this concludes ALL the separate required vaccines. No reactions to any of them, except....

My current dilemma:
So, back in August he got the MMR and that afternoon broke out in a measles like rash all over his body, mainly on the torso, with clusters in his armpits and groin. But otherwise fine. No big deal, that's how vaccines work. They are intentionally introducing weakened or killed versions of the disease they are vaccinating against. I get it.

Then, in November he came down with a stomach virus AND the measles like rash again. Took him to the doc. Doc said it was German Measles but could not possibly be caused by the vaccine because it had been two months.

Now here it is, April. He broke out in this rash AGAIN. Took him to the doc, they found an ear infection and put him on antibiotics for that. They now say that it couldn't possibly be any type of measles and that he's just breaking out in this rash as a reaction to other illness.

The big question:
This rash NEVER popped up before the MMR vaccine. When it first showed up I was not too concerned and had full intention to get the MMR booster in the future. But now that it's come up 2 more times, I'm kind of concerned and wondering if I should delay the booster or not get it at all?

Obviously the doc will say "Everything's fine, let me pump your kid full of 10 vaccines at once." The internet says "Vaccines are perfectly safe." or "Severe reactions will be immediate." but nothing about a recurring issue like this.

I just don't want to overload his system if something from the MMR vaccine is still lingering in his body. Obviously this isn't an anti-vax thread because my kid has been getting them. But I am all about SMART vaxing, so theories and opinions are welcome, especially from anyone who has actually been educated and trained in medicine.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I meant to say something sarcastic but then figured it wouldnt be nice. Your son's health might be in jeopardy.

Do keep us informed on the developments...this is an important subject and there's a lot of conflicting opinions about it.

There will probably be somebody along with more info and knowledge who can maybe provide some sound advice.

Good luck.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

one of my neices had the same problem recently, it might be coincidence about the vaccine but try not feed the little one milk or dairy products unless its from you.

cows milk is baby cow growth fluid and made for baby cows. Human babies need human growth fluid, from humans.

dairy can have a bad reaction to children. not saying this is the issue but i would highly consider it and see if it helps or not.

P.s im not a vegan or anything and not promoting vegan views, just things ive picked up.

Sorry to hear your child has been unwell. I'm no doctor but in my opinion to attribute these medical issues to the vaccine does seem a like clutching at straws.
Rashes are quite common amongst young children and babies and could have many different reasons for those.

My children have all had vaccines and my 2 year old boy has never been unwell.. He is really fit and healthy.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

I've got a good sense of humor and I can tolerate jabs and jokes, so if you've got a good one let 'er rip!

I'm in a position where it's up to me whether or not he gets another dose of this crud. Either nothing happens...or he develops encephalitis or seizures or some sh*t. It's really nerve wracking when you're gambling with your own baby's health.

This is what's at stake here:

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie
That may be the answer. Do you let the cat outside ? And BTW , I have a kitten that is a twin to the one in the picture.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

it wasnt a good one...sorry to say. It would only degenerate into anti wax/pro wax theme....which is something you probably dont want here.

Are you sure its not an allergy to something?
I myself had to realize that after many decades of living my body decided that he doesn't want anything to do with bought (and not untreated as on my own yard) strawberries. I develop such a measle-like rash, complete with itchiness after eating two or more of them.

My cure: stay away from strawberries. If necessary, treatment is cortisone.


And, if I may say,

A year and a half later he got just the DT without the Pertussis part and was fine. (I add this info to demonstrate that he does have a sensitivity to vaccines)

missed some core logic. It could have been something completely different what made him cry the first time. Maybe the shock of being pricked.

Gothmog might be right...maybe you should distance the cat from the baby while it's so young...

I heard some people have alergic reaction to cats...

a reply to: Misterlondon

For the most part my guy is super healthy too. And everybody's input seems to be 'well he's pastey white and he's just breaking out in this rash'.

But, like I said, this rash never came up until the MMR and the exact same rash has come up 2 more times since. It's like the bumps are just lurking under the surface for any little thing to aggravate them. I'm just worried that IF it is caused by the vaccine that giving the vaccine again will make things worse.

LOL! The dogs chase the cats out of the house, that was a one time photo op.

He has no allergies to anything that I know of. He eats peanut butter, strawberries, eggs, milk...no problem. No allergies to pollen or animals.

And the rash isn't like a flat, hives/allergy rash. It's little, raised, red bumps...almost like pimples but there's not actual blisters. The aggravating factors: first time-MMR second time-stomach flu third time-ear infection

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
Gothmog might be right...maybe you should distance the cat from the baby while it's so young...

I heard some people have alergic reaction to cats...

Not distance. Looks like the cat needs the baby and the baby needs the cat. However , if the cat is let outside , the first thing they love to do is roll around on the ground. A good cat brushing in another room and cleanup may be in order.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I am not a doctor, but I have stayed at a Holliday Inn Express

Seriously though, I have a 3 year old and we had to space his vacs out a bit. His immune system wasn't very strong when he was younger, seems to be better now, but he would get sick a lot including right after vacs

He has had rashes, too. He just had impetigo about a month ago.

We were both concerned about rashes and I looked it up and it was common for children to get them. First time parents, we are.

I will also say I was concerned about vacs and expressed it to my wife, but a mother always wins when it comes to her young one (my case anyways).

My suggestion is to keep talking about it and look for your answers. Don't be overly worried about rashes, though. Apparently, they are common with many different causes, but usually not harmful.

Oh, and be sure to give your child supplements, etc to boost the immune system.

I probably didn't help much, but felt the need to share.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
missed some core logic. It could have been something completely different what made him cry the first time. Maybe the shock of being pricked.

At six months I knew the in's and out's of him and his behavior. It was a pain scream. The only time up until then he had even screamed like that was when he was stung by a wasp, and even that was only for about 15 minutes. After the DTaP he screamed inconsolably for 4 hours straight. I was about to take him to the ER before it finally subsided, it was THAT bad. I gave him Tylenol, I walked him around, tried to give him the boob (still breastfeeding at that time)...nothing helped. Definitely a notch or two above 'fussiness'.

Statistics say only about 5% of kids develop the rash from the MMR, and there have been other kids who experience the severe pain after the DTaP...they even call it 'encephalitic cry' even though encephalitis can't be proven without an MRI. Less than 1% of kids experience this side effect from the DTaP. But that's my point, obviously his little body is sensitive to this stuff. That's why I'm being careful.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

did they give your baby the mmr, or the mmrv? I am asking because well, can't help but wonder about shingles... and I don't know if the mmrv might cause shingles in rare cases... but it would explain the reoccurance if it..

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Vitamin c ... chronic infections indicate a lack of it.

I might be completely barking up the wrong tree here, but well, I did find this:

Herpes zoster

Herpes zoster (shingles) most often occurs in the elderly and is only rarely seen in children. The incidence of herpes zoster in vaccinated adults is 0.9/1000 person-years, and is 0.33/1000 person-years in vaccinated children; this is lower than the overall incidence of 3.2–4.2/1000 person-years.[26][27]

Adult shingles cases may increase after introduction of varicella vaccine, but evidence is unclear.[13][27][28][29] While research using computer models has tended to support the hypothesis that vaccination programs would increase incidence of zoster in the short term, the evidence from epidemiological studies is mixed,[30][31] and increases observed in zoster incidence in some studies may not be related to vaccination programs, as the incidence increases prior to the varicella vaccine program being initiated.[32]

Regarding herpes zoster, the US Centers for Disease Control states: "Chickenpox vaccines contain weakened live VZV, which may cause latent (dormant) infection. The vaccine-strain VZV can reactivate later in life and cause shingles. However, the risk of getting shingles from vaccine-strain VZV after chickenpox vaccination is much lower than getting shingles after natural infection with wild-type VZV."[33]

en.wikipedia.org...

of course, if they did screw up and give your baby the mmrv instead of the mmr (highly doubt if they intentially give it to him) that they would admit it, but well, maybe??

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Just a possibility here:

Vaccine adjuvants are the part of vaccines which amplify/elicit the immune response - in other words, it kicks the immune system into overdrive in order to boost the reaction/antibody creation to the attenuated/deactivated virus.

With the immune system in overdrive, allergic sensitivities can become more pronounced (afterall, allergies are immune system over-reactions.) You baby might be "slightly allergic" to the laundry detergent you use, or a household pet (or anything in his environment) which is then amplified while under the effects of the vaccine, with antibodies against the allergens then stepped up going forward.

Put simply, perhaps it is simply an allergy developed during the immune response to the MMR vaccine. There are blood tests, besides observational diagnosis to determine an active measles infection. It would be nice to have an actual answer for the rash, though. Maybe you need to push for an actual answer to the rash. Maybe ask if it could be an allergy and ask for a referral to an allergist.

On another note - when my son was

also this:

Risk of vaccine-associated zoster — Immunocompromised patients who receive the varicella vaccine are at risk for developing severe and/or disseminated herpes zoster infection with the vaccine strain of the virus [65,73]. In such patients, zoster can develop months after vaccination. Wild-type VZV also has been identified in persons with herpes zoster after immunization, indicating that herpes zoster in immunized persons also may result from antecedent natural varicella infection [74]. The impact of varicella vaccination on the incidence of herpes zoster is discussed separately. (See "Epidemiology and pathogenesis of varicella-zoster virus infection: Herpes zoster", section on 'Impact of varicella vaccine on incidence of herpes zoster'.)

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
LOL! The dogs chase the cats out of the house, that was a one time photo op.

He has no allergies to anything that I know of. He eats peanut butter, strawberries, eggs, milk...no problem. No allergies to pollen or animals.

And the rash isn't like a flat, hives/allergy rash. It's little, raised, red bumps...almost like pimples but there's not actual blisters. The aggravating factors: first time-MMR second time-stomach flu third time-ear infection

Then by all means have your general practitioner refer you to a specialist.I am not a doctor , but a father of 4 (all 4 middle-aged now) and 4 wonderful grand-chldren , With any of the above I would never be satisfied with the answer "its a rash" My next question would be What ,when , where , how , and why ?If no answers I would ask the doctor to refer me to a specialist that could answer.