Is a naturally occuring universe/life the biggest conspiracy ever?

a reply to: Raggedyman

I don't identify myself as a chemist to bolster my argument. I identify it so as to let people know where my bias comes from. Again it is an intellectual honesty. I also identify as not being an atheist, or a creationist to be honest. Funnily my lack of atheism is something you don't try to address. Oh wait, that would be because your arguments require all those who oppose you to be atheists. When they are not, your argument is invalid most of the time.

No I read them. What is there to argue about them, with regards to this thread? They are general antiscience articles, with no actual supporting information. There is some truth in them, and much untruth. It would be off topic to pull them apart.

Again, you seem to think that all science is atheist. Its not. Quit with the big lie techniques. A scientific journal is recognized by all except the most fanatical creationist as a reliable source. Mind you they don't like them as the likes of Dr Dino, Ken Ham, etc are unable to satisfy the criteria for publishing.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

The level of corruption needed to pull off a scheme of that scale is already present. #$@% rolls downhill. You only need the few in the top to say "this is what we'll allow" and the rest will blindly follow.

That being said, starting with the assumption that the [typical interpretation] bible is correct is a very shaky beginning.

In conclusion, it's not impossible to think such a "grand" conspiracy could be hatched, albeit, it's quite unlikely that is the actual case.

"Who's in charge and how did they pull it off?" No one is in charge...and it wasn't "pulled off"...In fact, I believe, if anything, it would more likely be an accidental spread of misinformation rather than an intentional conspiratorial plot....

(All this is stated through a theoretical lens. I firmly support scientific findings. I do not believe there is a conspiratorial plot to spread scientific misinformation...nor do I think the scientific information that is readily available is incorrect.)

A2D

a reply to: Noinden

I dont address your faith because its irrelevant to the conversation.
I address the science or lack thereof

Your chemistry skills in my humble opinion is irrelevant to biology and evolution

Scientific journals, want a link to proof of corrupted journals?

Course you dont

emerald.tufts.edu...

www.wsj.com...

www.americanthinker.com...

I bet you will call blasphemy, in your heart?

Though I am sure that by posting these links, it would be akin and as relevant, if not as difficult as to trying to explain to "The Angel of Lightness" on this board that the Catholic church and papacy are corrupt and a bunch self serving men.

You claim journals and scientists, my catholic friend, priests and Popes.
The difference, absolutely nothing between you

a reply to: Raggedyman

I hold degrees in Chemistry (mmy PhD involved amino acids a building block noif life) and Bioinformatics specifically Genomics. So not irrelevant in the least. But a valiant attempt at the big lie technique.

In the end all you have is lies.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Raggedyman

I hold degrees in Chemistry (mmy PhD involved amino acids a building block noif life) and Bioinformatics specifically Genomics. So not irrelevant in the least. But a valiant attempt at the big lie technique.

In the end all you have is lies.

All you have is faith, you ignore every link.
If you are so highly educated, then out with the evidence

Oops, shouldn't ask that should I


This isnt about you, I am not interested in who you are, what you are, your religios beliefs.
Science is about more than your ideas

You education is irrelevant, you are so hooked on your own importance you have lost the capacity to reason

EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

The priest casts who were responsible for the organised religious practices of the time are mainly responsible for the deception.

They have managed to "pull it off" via there manipulation and control of our knowledge base and/or the caste systems implemented and laced with control constructs.

The veil that these people have managed to pull over the eyes of humanity can only ever be fully removed via education, the study of the sciences and mathematics. Which lets face it are really the only true words of God humanity will ever be privy to this side of the reality we exist within.

If evolution is this massive conspiracy, why are there no whistle blowers?

You're telling me that everybody that graduates college with science degrees(something like 2000 per year) and work with science in their daily lives, are all working together in some massive conspiracy. Yet they don't even blink an eye when their desire for legitimate knowledge (which is why many folks become scientists) is compromised by lies that they could easily figure out themselves since all experiments are published publicly. It doesn't make a lick of sense, plus there's the fact that just about all of the opposition are religious fundies stubborn in a worldview. There's no way that every single biologist, chemist, geologist, and paleontologist all have no integrity. Somebody would have come forward and showed us why the evidence is fabricated and which parts are lies with evidence to show it by now. The conspiracy would have to be impossibly massive.

a reply to: Barcs

There are plenty of whistleblowers, read the links I posted, research it for yourself, it's easy if you have half an education it should be

It's not a massive conspiracy, it's just a bunch of mindless brainwashed goats believing what makes the most sense to them.
And as I have said, for many people who don't understand science, trust people, evolution isn't that far fetched, it is a reasonable theory
It just lacks real science

Go read my links about the questions real scientists have, don't be like noinden
Research

a reply to: Raggedyman

Those aren't whistle blowers, they are religious fanatics. You cite them and propaganda sites, not actual research done by scientists. You also post quote mines about scientists' personal beliefs. Nothing at all that refutes evolution. They all use lies and fallacious appeals to justify their worldview, just like you have. Not a single one of them has ever broken down the physical objective evidence that backs evolution and shown where it is wrong, or explained what exactly doesn't add up or what parts are fabrications. In fact, they don't even understand the basics of evolution, which is the ultimate form of dishonesty when arguing against something.

Like I said, the experiments are all public record, anybody with the means can duplicate them and prove them wrong IF they are indeed wrong. The problem is nobody has ever done this or even attempted. They rely on straw mans that have nothing to do with evolution.

So where are the whistle blowers? Whistle blowers are people that work in the field and would have knowledge of these fabrications that you claim exist. Sorry, but thousands of scientists say you are wrong and not a single one has come forward to expose this unrealistically massive hoax. Your blind denial does not prove anything.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Ahh my education is not important in a debate about well aspects my education is involved in? Oh well go to the mechanic for that health check up old bean Or perhaps a faith healer?

a reply to: Noinden

Did he just say "creation" websites are whistle blowers?

a reply to: Akragon

Yes yes he did. Along with those other biased sites. It would be like asking Dawkins to discuss a gnostic mass

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Raggedyman

Ahh my education is not important in a debate about well aspects my education is involved in? Oh well go to the mechanic for that health check up old bean

Or perhaps a faith healer?

Don't worry about seeing the mechanic, I've got a bucket of leeches for you. They cure everything. Oh... Don't wash your hands or clean the linens either.

a reply to: peter vlar

Never wash the tools after an operation either Here have some mercury for what ails you

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Raggedyman

Ahh my education is not important in a debate about well aspects my education is involved in? Oh well go to the mechanic for that health check up old bean

Or perhaps a faith healer?

Don't worry about seeing the mechanic, I've got a bucket of leeches for you. They cure everything. Oh... Don't wash your hands or clean the linens either.

Funny that PV
The bible in Leviticus taught about washing hands and cleanliness some 5 to 6 thousand years ago, long before germs were ever considered

Noinden, I would be happy to forego your concoctions, just don't think you put much though into what you are doing

Hey Ak, rather than ask others, accept, believe their opinion, you might find the links worth reading,

a reply to: Noinden

Any site that questions your beliefs, any site that would suggest that science needs to be refined is biased?

Your beliefs are a holy cow, unquestionable, beyond reproach.

You say that if science is proven wrong it's changed and in another post you state quite clearly anyone questioning science is science is biased.

What's wrong with you noinden, you claim a higher education, yet, can't seem to think like you have that higher education

You have a disconnect between the validity of your own faith, it's value and common sense

Can you seriously not see that, can't you?

a reply to: Raggedyman

They are not my beliefs lad. Science is not a religion. You can ribbet all you like, it does not make it so. They are biased sites as they are all hawking what THEY wish to portray, as opposed to a peer reviewed paper which follows the evidence.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Hey Ak, rather than ask others, accept, believe their opinion, you might find the links worth reading,

First of all i don't ask anyone about these things... IF i want to know something i read it for myself... And never off some silly creationist website...

Further more... Anything on those sites, which includes almost everything on those sites are not worth reading...

I told you before, anything associated with Ken Ham and his band of clowns is a waste of space...

Well known liars... And the man himself is a felon...

Even the people on those sites with actual degrees lie and distort facts to bolster their personal beliefs

Its just sad... Similar to yourself, who actually reads nothing anyone posts when you ask for "evidence"... even though said evidence has been tossed in your face for pages on this and a few other threads

All you do is mock people, and ignore any thing that invalidates your opinion...

And you opinion isn't even yours... It comes from those same websites i've been talking about

originally posted by: Raggedyman




Funny that PV
The bible in Leviticus taught about washing hands and cleanliness some 5 to 6 thousand years ago, long before germs were ever considered

Closer to 2600 years and nowhere near 5-6 KA. Regardless of the time frame, what the Hebrews knew as a result of their episode of Babylonian bondage has nothing to do with a tongue in cheek joke based in common Medieval European(Christians by the way) practices by the physicians of the time period. Particularly at the height of the Plague.

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: Raggedyman




Funny that PV
The bible in Leviticus taught about washing hands and cleanliness some 5 to 6 thousand years ago, long before germs were ever considered

Closer to 2600 years and nowhere near 5-6 KA. Regardless of the time frame, what the Hebrews knew as a result of their episode of Babylonian bondage has nothing to do with a tongue in cheek joke based in common Medieval European(Christians by the way) practices by the physicians of the time period. Particularly at the height of the Plague.

We could argue when it was written, honestly I dont care and you cant listen, I will accept it was not 5 to 6 thousand years ago, though it was well before germs were discovered.

These are some of the Jewish laws, think them over in the context of germs, viruses and contamination
Then think how you would deal with them, isolating the person?

bible.knowing-jesus.com...

Leviticus 22:4-8
'No man of the descendants of Aaron, who is a leper or who has a discharge, may eat of the holy gifts until he is clean And if one touches anything made unclean by a corpse or if a man has a seminal emission, or if a man touches any teeming things by which he is made unclean, or any man by whom he is made unclean, whatever his uncleanness; a person who touches any such shall be unclean until evening, and shall not eat of the holy gifts unless he has bathed his body in water.

Leviticus 11:24-47
'By these, moreover, you will be made unclean: whoever touches their carcasses becomes unclean until evening, and whoever picks up any of their carcasses shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening. 'Concerning all the animals which divide the hoof but do not make a split hoof, or which do not chew cud, they are unclean to you: whoever touches them becomes unclean.

and or

What we tend to forget is that these principles are universal and timeless. Some 3,500 years ago,as the people of Israel came out of Egypt and began their 40 years of wanderings, God gave them, among other things, laws of health and hygiene. They were intended as a model for all peoples.
For example, in Leviticus 13 God provided instruction concerning lepers: they were to be quarantined. Other principles God revealed concerned healthful eating (Leviticus 11), personal hygiene (Leviticus 15), and community sanitation (Deuteronomy 23:10–13). It is generally acknowledged that when these principles were applied to the Black Death, they contributed to saving millions of lives. Likewise today, many millions of lives could be saved simply by applying these principles.

www.vision.org...