Bad Mouth My Apostle

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: newnature1

Paul was a tosser and a phony. Had a seizure and then tried to change the message of Jesus.

Why would God have two different programs one heavenLy and one earthly.? I though thY will be done in earth as it is in heaven?

Nobody can die for someone else's transgressions. If there is a god we will all face our own judgement. I don't care what pretty Paul says.

But think about this: Is forgiveness the same thing as being justified or having someone else’s righteousness freely attributed to your account? They are not one and the same! Paul teaches the good stuff, don't get left behind.

a reply to: newnature1

But think about this: Is forgiveness the same thing as being justified or having someone else’s righteousness freely attributed to your account? They are not one and the same! Paul teaches the good stuff, don't get left behind.

Why should anyone assume that someone's/anyone's existence isn't "justified"? Or is this just projection of made up shame? Create a problem and then project it to "God's little Children", telling them "How can you even justify your pathetic existence?"! But wait a minute! YOU have the answer to your own made up problem with a made up magic solution! A magic man'god! Once YOU believe "me", your life will be justified! But first, you must admit that it isn't and you aren't. So convoluted!

And, how in the world do you think it's moral to allow someone else to take on the blame/responsibility of your own actions and mistakes? Why do you think that it's moral to accept that someone else's innocent blood will get your sorry ass into "God's Kingdom"? That's mafia mentality!

a reply to: windword

I'm getting a message from Paul. I mean God. Yes telling me that if you sow a one thousand dollar seed you will be blessed beyond your wildest imagination. Act now and sow that seed of just one thousand dollars and God will manifest himself in his glory for you.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: newnature1

But think about this: Is forgiveness the same thing as being justified or having someone else’s righteousness freely attributed to your account? They are not one and the same! Paul teaches the good stuff, don't get left behind.

Why should anyone assume that someone's/anyone's existence isn't "justified"? Or is this just projection of made up shame? Create a problem and then project it to "God's little Children", telling them "How can you even justify your pathetic existence?"! But wait a minute! YOU have the answer to your own made up problem with a made up magic solution! A magic man'god! Once YOU believe "me", your life will be justified! But first, you must admit that it isn't and you aren't. So convoluted!

And, how in the world do you think it's moral to allow someone else to take on the blame/responsibility of your own actions and mistakes? Why do you think that it's moral to accept that someone else's innocent blood will get your sorry ass into "God's Kingdom"? That's mafia mentality!

So it was ultimately Christ’s faith that allowed God’s justice to remain intact, as God declares an unrighteous believer to be righteous. You see, apart from Christ’s faith and his faithfulness to carry out the Father’s will based on that faith, there would not be anyone perfectly righteous to whom God could join a believing sinner. God's kingdom in the age of grace? No! Paul teaches the facts about this existence. Try a dose of Paul.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: windword

I'm getting a message from Paul. I mean God. Yes telling me that if you sow a one thousand dollar seed you will be blessed beyond your wildest imagination. Act now and sow that seed of just one thousand dollars and God will manifest himself in his glory for you.

So you plant your seed in this envelope with my address on it, God can see your faith and response by giving you your miracle. Modern day Christianity would say justifying the righteous, “Come to us and we will show you how to be righteous then God can justify you. We will teach you how to shoot that arrow that hit the dead center, so you can be acceptable before God.” Investment giving, this is what your seed faith people are being told is all about. You plant your seed faith here and God has no idea apart from you planting your seed faith whether you have faith.

Not my Apostle, he shows the free gift. No envelopes in Paul message.

a reply to: newnature1

So it was ultimately Christ’s faith that allowed God’s justice to remain intact, as God declares an unrighteous believer to be righteous.

I thought that Christians believe that Christ is God.....you know, the Trinity and all that? "The word was with God and the Word was God"

If so, then God's faith in himself is meaningless. God doing his own will is meaningless. God sacrificing himself to himself makes that sacrifice meaningless.

Nobody died for your sins!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: newnature1

So it was ultimately Christ’s faith that allowed God’s justice to remain intact, as God declares an unrighteous believer to be righteous.

I thought that Christians believe that Christ is God.....you know, the Trinity and all that? "The word was with God and the Word was God"

If so, then God's faith in himself is meaningless. God doing his own will is meaningless. God sacrificing himself to himself makes that sacrifice meaningless.

Nobody died for your sins!

Well said, but there is no three-in-one god in Paul. No Trinity in Genesis 3:15, the groupings of the stars, there is no articulate speech or voice, and no words are heard, but their sayings have gone out into all the world (Ps. 19:1-6). Human hands played around with the written word, but human hands can touch the message it those stars. Paul teaches the cool stuff.

a reply to: newnature1

Some of what Paul teaches is extremely divisive and some of it promotes blind obedience to the government and church leadership, which is never good for humanity.

However, some of what Paul teaches is pure metaphysics, and I agree that it's somewhat "cool". But, it's clear from his writings that he never met or knew the actual teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. He met "Christ (Jesus)."

Who or what is the Christ? Did you know that at the time there were Pagans that also had a "Christ"? As a matter of fact, the initiates of the the Serapis cults and of the Eleusinian Mysteries were called "Bishops of Christ"."Christ" is a Greek word. Also, the Septuagint, which in the Greek translation of the Hebrew Torah, called King Saul, King David, King Solomon and Cyrus the Great "Christs".

Philo of Alexandria, a 1st century Hellenized Jewish philosopher "used philosophical allegory to attempt to fuse and harmonize Greek philosophy with Jewish philosophy", and taught that Plato's LOGOS and the Torah's "Angel of the Lord" were one in the same. Many Christians today believe The Angel of the Lord was Jesus Christ before he incarnated as a the human being Jesus of Nazareth.

Joshua 5:13
Now it happened that while Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and much to his amazement, he saw a man standing in front of him, holding a drawn sword in his hand! Joshua approached him and asked him, “Are you one of us, or are you with our enemies?”

14 “Neither,” he answered. “I have come as commander of the Lord’s Army.” Joshua immediately fell on his face to the earth and worshipped, saying to him, “Lord, what do you have for your servant by way of command?”

15 The commander of the Lord’s Army replied to Joshua, “Remove your sandals from your feet, because the place where you’re standing is holy.”

The name Joshua translate to "Jesus" in Greek; "Iésous". Joshua, or Jesus, meets the Angel of the Lord on the battlefield.

This is what happens, according to the prophet Zachariah, after Joshua dies:

Zechariah 3King James Version (KJV) 3 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.

Now, this is where it gets interesting! The Angel of the Lord gives Joshua/Jesus a task.

Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch. 9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts,

and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

Could this Joshua/Jesus be the same Joshua/Jesus that Paul met on the road to Damascus, or at least whom he wanted everyone to think he met, "Christ" Joshua/Jesus, and that Paul wasn't ever really talking about Jesus of Nazareth at all?

................Christianity more likely originated from beliefs of a mythical celestial being, born from Jewish and Hellenistic literature and then grew from an outcast Jewish cult that believed in revelation, dreams and visions, rather than from the words of an itinerate rabbi who walked the earth.
www.nobeliefs.com...

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: newnature1

Some of what Paul teaches is extremely divisive and some of it promotes blind obedience to the government and church leadership, which is never good for humanity.

However, some of what Paul teaches is pure metaphysics, and I agree that it's somewhat "cool". But, it's clear from his writings that he never met or knew the actual teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. He met "Christ (Jesus)."

Who or what is the Christ? Did you know that at the time there were Pagans that also had a "Christ"? As a matter of fact, the initiates of the the Serapis cults and of the Eleusinian Mysteries were called "Bishops of Christ"."Christ" is a Greek word. Also, the Septuagint, which in the Greek translation of the Hebrew Torah, called King Saul, King David, King Solomon and Cyrus the Great "Christs".

Philo of Alexandria, a 1st century Hellenized Jewish philosopher "used philosophical allegory to attempt to fuse and harmonize Greek philosophy with Jewish philosophy", and taught that Plato's LOGOS and the Torah's "Angel of the Lord" were one in the same. Many Christians today believe The Angel of the Lord was Jesus Christ before he incarnated as a the human being Jesus of Nazareth.

Joshua 5:13
Now it happened that while Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and much to his amazement, he saw a man standing in front of him, holding a drawn sword in his hand! Joshua approached him and asked him, “Are you one of us, or are you with our enemies?”

14 “Neither,” he answered. “I have come as commander of the Lord’s Army.” Joshua immediately fell on his face to the earth and worshipped, saying to him, “Lord, what do you have for your servant by way of command?”

15 The commander of the Lord’s Army replied to Joshua, “Remove your sandals from your feet, because the place where you’re standing is holy.”

The name Joshua translate to "Jesus" in Greek; "Iésous". Joshua, or Jesus, meets the Angel of the Lord on the battlefield.

This is what happens, according to the prophet Zachariah, after Joshua dies:

Zechariah 3King James Version (KJV) 3 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.

Now, this is where it gets interesting! The Angel of the Lord gives Joshua/Jesus a task.

Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch. 9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts,

and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

Could this Joshua/Jesus be the same Joshua/Jesus that Paul met on the road to Damascus, or at least whom he wanted everyone to think he met, "Christ" Joshua/Jesus, and that Paul wasn't ever really talking about Jesus of Nazareth at all?

................Christianity more likely originated from beliefs of a mythical celestial being, born from Jewish and Hellenistic literature and then grew from an outcast Jewish cult that believed in revelation, dreams and visions, rather than from the words of an itinerate rabbi who walked the earth.
www.nobeliefs.com...

Here is the roots of Greek influence in the Bible. Alexander the Great also used what is called ‘religious syncretism,’ Alexander took this tendency of syncretism, of mixing together different religious traditions from different places, and he used it as a self-conscious propaganda technique. Alexander even started claiming divine status for himself. Alexander went around passing out rumors that his mother had actually been impregnated by the god Apollo, when he appeared as a snake in her bed. So, Alexander is putting himself forward as divine. Why? This is not a Greek tradition, but it’s very much a tradition in the East for kings to be considered by their people to be gods.

Alexander says, “Well, if they can be gods, I can be a god.” So Alexander starts spreading rumors that he is divine himself. Alexander probably even believed it; and so he had a god father, he had a human mother, and so then he would identify himself with whoever was a god in the different places. So Alexander would identify himself as a Greek god with a Persian god. Alexander would identify the goddess Isis with some Greek goddess; and so all the time these different gods from different places were basically all said to be simply different cultural representations, different names, for what were generally the same gods all over the place.

Also, though, what they would do is sometimes they wouldn’t try to simply say these gods are the same. What they would just do is add on more gods. They’d get to Syria, “Look at all these god that the Syrians worship. Well, we’ll just add those into our pantheon of gods too.” And this is part of what ancient religion was like, is that people were not exclusive.

You didn’t have to worry. Just because you worshiped one god, doesn’t mean you couldn’t worship another god or several gods or five gods or a hundred gods. Gods knew who everybody was-they weren’t particularly jealous, in that sense. So this is the way people did it. But what Alexander and his successors did, was they made sort of a conscious, propagandistic decision to use religious syncretism to bind together their kingdoms.


Jesus was not in the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15) The monotheism of Israel does not and cannot evolve from polytheism, because the two are based on radically divergent world-views, radically divergent intuitions about reality. The monotheism of Israel was not, it could not be the natural outgrowth of the polytheism of an earlier age, it was a radical break with it. 
Monotheism was a revolution, not an evolution.

Paul tells us that the resurrection is the greatest display of God’s power ever to be demonstrated, nor can it ever be surpassed. The last Adam told Paul that message. Paul teaches the good stuff, give my Apostle a try.

a reply to: newnature1

Here is the roots of Greek influence in the Bible. Alexander the Great also used what is called ‘religious syncretism,’ Alexander took this tendency of syncretism, of mixing together different religious traditions from different places, and he used it as a self-conscious propaganda technique. Alexander even started claiming divine status for himself. Alexander went around passing out rumors that his mother had actually been impregnated by the god Apollo, when he appeared as a snake in her bed. So, Alexander is putting himself forward as divine. Why? This is not a Greek tradition, but it’s very much a tradition in the East for kings to be considered by their people to be gods.

It's a global tradition that kings and military leaders are associated with "sons of god". That's nothing new, nor is it any where near the subject of my last post.

Paul teaches the good stuff, give my Apostle a try.

You sound as though you're peddling a drug. And indeed, religion is a drug.
No thanks, I'm fine just the way I am.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: newnature1

Here is the roots of Greek influence in the Bible. Alexander the Great also used what is called ‘religious syncretism,’ Alexander took this tendency of syncretism, of mixing together different religious traditions from different places, and he used it as a self-conscious propaganda technique. Alexander even started claiming divine status for himself. Alexander went around passing out rumors that his mother had actually been impregnated by the god Apollo, when he appeared as a snake in her bed. So, Alexander is putting himself forward as divine. Why? This is not a Greek tradition, but it’s very much a tradition in the East for kings to be considered by their people to be gods.

It's a global tradition that kings and military leaders are associated with "sons of god". That's nothing new, nor is it any where near the subject of my last post.

Paul teaches the good stuff, give my Apostle a try.

You sound as though you're peddling a drug. And indeed, religion is a drug.
No thanks, I'm fine just the way I am.

No religion on the face of this earth can get around Paul. Paul peddles the free gift and it is the coolest gift of them all. Dump that religion and come on over to Paul's camp, we got s'mores.

a reply to: newnature1

Paul is a creepy guy. I don't believe a word of his stupid letters and he is NOT an Apostle. There can only be 12 Apostles and the spots were full before Saul's psychotic a** burst on the scene and destroyed the Word of the Messiah by changing the rules to his liking.

a reply to: newnature1

You are obsessing over Saul so hard because deep down you know he is full of ish but have committed yourself to his teachings and need to argue about it to convince yourself. Do you think all these people who haven't fallen for the scam of grace and the fake prophet you call your apostle are just making up stuff that isn't true?

Show me one instance of one of the 12 Apostles calling Paul an apostle, Luke is not an Apostle and was Pauls itchb.

Outside of the writings of Paul and Luke show me Jesus confiming him as an Apostle.

All you have is Paul's word, which is good for absolutely nothing.

Good luck with the Antichrist, Paul666

originally posted by: ElementalFreeze
a reply to: newnature1

Paul is a creepy guy. I don't believe a word of his stupid letters and he is NOT an Apostle. There can only be 12 Apostles and the spots were full before Saul's psychotic a** burst on the scene and destroyed the Word of the Messiah by changing the rules to his liking.

Paul was not an earthly kingdom program apostle, God had no need for an additional apostle to fulfill the program of Israel’s promised earthly kingdom. Everything related to Israel’s program comes with the number twelve, God did not add a thirteenth to that program.

The issue will not be my righteousness compared to the righteousness of someone else, but my righteousness compared to God’s perfect rightness. Come check out Paul, the last Adam told him this message in his letters. Come take another look at Paul's letters, their not that stupid.

originally posted by: ElementalFreeze
a reply to: newnature1

You are obsessing over Saul so hard because deep down you know he is full of ish but have committed yourself to his teachings and need to argue about it to convince yourself. Do you think all these people who haven't fallen for the scam of grace and the fake prophet you call your apostle are just making up stuff that isn't true?

Show me one instance of one of the 12 Apostles calling Paul an apostle, Luke is not an Apostle and was Pauls itchb.

Outside of the writings of Paul and Luke show me Jesus confiming him as an Apostle.

All you have is Paul's word, which is good for absolutely nothing.

Good luck with the Antichrist, Paul666

People setting themselves apart, is called self-sanctification! God is the Sanctifier, NOT the person. The flesh is never capable of performance to the standard of the perfection belonging to God himself, no matter how set apart we try to become. Sanctification is an already accomplished fact for each and every believer of Paul’s good news. Don't get left behind! Paul is good for you, because right now you are only standing in your own righteousness.

Here is a link exposing Paul as an enemy of the church led by James.

Yeshua or Paul

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: ElementalFreeze
a reply to: newnature1

Paul is a creepy guy. I don't believe a word of his stupid letters and he is NOT an Apostle. There can only be 12 Apostles and the spots were full before Saul's psychotic a** burst on the scene and destroyed the Word of the Messiah by changing the rules to his liking.

Paul was not an earthly kingdom program apostle, God had no need for an additional apostle to fulfill the program of Israel’s promised earthly kingdom. Everything related to Israel’s program comes with the number twelve, God did not add a thirteenth to that program.

The issue will not be my righteousness compared to the righteousness of someone else, but my righteousness compared to God’s perfect rightness. Come check out Paul, the last Adam told him this message in his letters. Come take another look at Paul's letters, their not that stupid.

You sound like you're drunk on the epistles of Saul and under the influence of an apocalyptic Pauline cult. You have posted some silly stuff trying to defend the liar Saul who only someone who is a little bit off would say things like "earthly kingdom apostle" which is not a real thing and neither is its hypothetical opposite.

People like Jim Jones and David Koresh say things like that and Paul IS a no good piece of Ronan trash who always seems to get arrested when he's about to be killed like he is being rescued and he probably lived out his life in Rome and was never martyred. He was a Benedict Arnold who chose the winning side

originally posted by: ElementalFreeze
Here is a link exposing Paul as an enemy of the church led by James.

Yeshua or Paul

Thanks for the link, but a figure of speech relates to the form in which the words are used. It consists in the fact that a word or words are used out of their ordinary sense, or place, or manner, for the purpose of attracting our attention to what is said.


In Genesis chapter three, we have neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of certain figures of speech. When Satan is spoken of as a ‘serpent’, it is the figure Hypocatastasis or Implication. An implied resemblance or representation.


Other figures of speech are used in Genesis 3:14-15, but only for the same purpose of emphasizing the truth and the reality of what is said. “Thou shalt bruise his heel”, it cannot mean his literal heel of flesh and blood, but suffering, more temporary in character. 


“He shall crush thy head”, it means something more than a skull of bone, and brain, and hair. It means that all Satan’s plans and plots, policy and purposes, will one day be finally crushed and ended, never more to mar or to hinder the purposes of God. 


This will be effected when Satan shall be bruised under our feet (Romans 16:20). This, again, will not be our literal feet, but something much more real. The bruising of Christ’s heel is the most eloquent and impressive way of foretelling the most solemn events; and to point out that the effort made by Satan to evade his doom, then threatened, would become the very means of insuring its accomplishment; for it was through the death of Christ that he who had the power of death would be destroyed; and all Satan’ power and policy brought to an end, and all his works destroyed. What literal words could portray these literal facts so wonderfully as these expressive figures of speech?.

There is no debate when it come to Paul. You never been to this rodeo, can you go 8 sec. on Paul? You will never do it, you are standing right now in your own righteousness. Bummer for you!

a reply to: newnature1

You seem to be a trained professional in the field of using a ton of words and never making a specific point or relevant (to anything) statement. I don't know how you do it, it's almost as if you are a random 3 word phrase generator programmed to fill up space with words.

So if you are actually a fan of Paul you not doing his way any favors. You probably will turn more people away from Paul.

Paul is an absolute dirtbag who just happens to have fans because those people don't really think about it. Asking someone to believe in virgin births and ressurections is fine if you ask me, not true but harmless because the man known as Jesus had a solid message that is kept alive by his mythological characteristics.

But the words of Paul, like it or not contradict the words of Jesus. Their individual teachings are so different in a pretty subtle (if you don't know the whole story) way that only if you read it in its entirety do you realize it.

But people are figuring it out by using their own intellect and I am amazed at the number of people who have done what I thought hardly ever happened, figuring out that Paul is not an apostle, and even in the world of biblical myths his story is unbelievable under scrutiny(by the rules of and in the bible itself).

a reply to: Now Padawan ElementalFreeze

(Sign!) Persistent little one no Padawan?

By Padawan:
Paul is a creepy guy. I don't believe a word of his stupid letters and he is NOT an Apostle. There can only be 12 Apostles and the spots were full before Saul's psychotic a** burst on the scene and destroyed the Word of the Messiah by changing the rules to his liking.

Phwoar! Padawan! Phwoar! Talk about having a rant! Don't be deceived by thin own beliefs Padawan! Let tangible proof set you free!! Yaaaaay (I prance and skip around in circles in bliss)

In your prior incarnation as 'Padawan Solarmania', who for god knows why is now banned!? Did not actually answer my post, so ill re-iterate for your new incarnation Padawan ElementalFreeze. (Cool Name!)

(Hope this sinks in for once, or at least provide a response, but alas I doubt it. Padawan believes what he wants and degrades anyone who thinks otherwise. [sigh])

Hhhukum (clears throat)... Kaaagh!. Hhhhukum. (spit)

Apologies everyone. Need to have a clear voice so there is no misunderstanding.

Quote from previous post:
(www.abovetopsecret.com...)

Regarding Paul/Saul, can you list all the reasons why you think him not the 12th apostle?

Considering your sacred 12. If 13 is a bad number what would 11 be?

From my understanding of Judaism, Gnostics and Christianity Matthias replaces Judas as the twelfth apostle.

But Matthias is only mentioned once then disappears, I think.

Also your forgetting the first part of 1 Timothy:

'1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope'

In Acts 9 God himself says Paul/Saul is his chosen. Lets start at 9:10 when God spoke with Ananias.

'10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a visio'n, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.'

Now get this Padawan! Ananias says to God:
[hint, he believes as you do about Paul Padawan!, AS YOU DO!!!!]

'13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

Just to let that sink in, re-read that part Padawan! Re-read! Bugger it, I shall bold it for your ease Padawan as I know you have learning difficulties.

Then you know what the big guy says Padawan, here ill show you:

'15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.'

And again I shall bold it out for you Padawan.

You saying Gods a liar Padawan?' ...end quote from previous thread that was not answered Padawan.

So Padawan ElementalFreeze, answer that!

Master Coomba98
(Padawan just got schooled!!)