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Is Neurofeedback the missing piece to the Remote Viewing puzzle?

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posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 01:57 AM
I had originally posted this in the 9/11 Remote Viewing thread. But then I decided that it would be best suited for a whole new thread.

Just to catch everyone up to speed on that, I shared a link involving the CIA & Scientology: Remote Viewing Timeline. Some people didn't think it was relevant to point out the fact that remote viewing got its start in clandestine intelligence agencies & the occult.

So now onto the thread.

There is something particularly fishy about RV that I've always wondered. So you've got somebody that claims to be able to remote view, right? In addition to validating their session by traveling to the target locations to verify their descriptions, there's something else these scientists should be doing that they are clearly not doing (or if they are it's all still classified).

The thing I'm referring to is NEUROFEEDBACK. What is neurofeedback you ask? I refer you to this Ted Talks by Tan Le. Basically, neurofeedback is a technology (connected to your head) that measures & detects electromagnetic frequencies occuring in your brain. Then with the use of software it will convert the measurements into moving graphs, allowing you to watch someone's (or your own) brainwaves as they are experiencing reality in real time. If you wear one of these yourself and you have an opportunity to watch your brainwaves synchronize as you concentrate, it's a really powerful experience that could be compared to looking at your mind's reflection in a mirror.

There have been many experiments, for example where scientists have used neurofeedback on tibetan monks when they meditate to measure all their changes in frequency, their waveforms oscillate into coherent visual patterns as they go deeper & deeper. Some good books pertaining to that are The Mind & The Brain (Jeffrey M Schwartz) and Hidden Dimensions: The Unification of Consciousness & Physics (B Alan Wallace). Two of my absolute favorites!

Something I've never ever, ever, ever, EVER, seen.... Is a demonstration involving a remote viewer being hooked up to neurofeedback so that we can see his/her brainwaves in real time. Neurofeedback is the kind of technology that can help validate the empirical nature of a remote viewers ability. I would have to imagine that it probably looks something similar to the monks who meditate, but I don't know because I've never seen it! Why?

From what I understand, lucid dreaming, astral projection & transcendental meditation are all ancient techniques that began in the far east with the Hindus, and then the Buddhists. The phrase remote viewing came from Ingo if I recall. What a great way to rebrand ancient technology into a marketable scheme that you could then sell to the CIA, right? Kind of reminds me of good old L Ron Hubbard & his e-meter, always asking you for money.

Neurofeedback like today certainly wasn't available back in the 60's & 70's. But Ingo Swann lived up to 2013, only 3 years ago. From what I've read & seen, not once in his life has he ever mentioned the technology of neurofeedback, or the use of neurofeedback. And I've not read any kind of experiments where that has been done. If I am wrong please sombody point me to something because at this point I'm desperate, I want to know!

Has anybody here been to one those IRVA (International Remote Viewing Association) conferences hosted by Paul Smith? I think I might go to the next one just to see what the F*** is up with all that, for real.

Neurofeedback & Meditation:

Neurofeedback Consumer Product:

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 02:12 AM
I'm pretty sure that they did hook guys up to machines to read their brainwaves during the project. The fact we don't have records of the test don't mean they never happened.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 02:36 AM
But back in the 60's & 70's the technology wasn't as advanced as it has become within the past 10-15 years. I mean today you can buy one of these headsets with the software included for like $400 on the open market. Some more advanced models are restricted to qualified researchers AKA a minimum of a Master's degree and supervision of an affiliated institution.

All the Scientology & CIA stuff set aside, surely there has to be somebody out there today in the RV community that has had the idea to use neurofeedback as a tool for remote viewing, right?

Where is it?

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 03:07 AM
a reply to: ColdWisdom

You need to delve into the info about Robert Monroe's work at his Farsight Institute in Virginia and catch in the books of a couple of the former Army RVers that trained there. I totally agree with you that that area is much avoided when people discuss RVing. that is by design. Actually, if you also delve into the story of and author of the book and movie of "The Men Who Stare at Goats," you will get an idea of how active the CIA has always been in trying to divert real attention away from RVing. For example, the movie never mentions once the CIA being involved in RV work even as it was the initiator of the whole business! It makes the Army the scapegoat (no pun intended) and attempts to make the whole thing into a joke. RVers are the modern oracles of the old days. And today, we can make them with meditation training helped along with EEG machines with a touch of drugs.

As with the UFO topic, a long-term plan is in place to smear both areas and the public accepts the ploy at face value. An active part of those programs are shills that keep tabs on ATS to appear from the woodwork when necessary to deny and distort the truth of both areas, and a whole lot more.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 03:28 AM
It is a start for getting an objective information on what is going on inside the brain.

But I do believe we need tools that are more advanced so we can scan every particle and hopefully entanglement state with other particles in real time. What we really need is a way to measure probability field in real time and not one electron at a time like we do with the the double slit experiment.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 04:07 AM
a reply to: ColdWisdom

Just my two bob's worth:

I think your right with the neurofeedback. The RV technique I'm familiar with begins with looking into the void. What is the "void"? The void is That which is between two thoughts. Thinking is a series of thoughts. Thought A, B, C, etc.. So how does one get from thought A to thought B? Via the void.

I would think that there would be a common pattern that signifies when someone is looking into the void as opposed to just thinking.

What happens to brainwaves when seeing things in the void, I don't know. Depends on what one finds there perhaps.

Keep exploring the idea Coldwisdom.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 04:12 AM
Check out what happens if you google the patents for neurofeedback.

There are some familiar companies that stand out right away.

The Nielson Company (the company responsible for gathering TV ratings in the US). Fun fact about me is I used to have a Nielson box when I lived in Miami Beach. I never watched Mainstream News when I had the box, I just couldn't do it in good conscience. I hardly ever watched TV then but when I did it was usually TCM or Adult Swim.

Westinghouse Electric Corp has patents. I believe they were mentioned in the Remote Viewing Timeline link I posted earlier. Their Title for the patent is defined as a "Method for training material evaluation with method of EEG spectral estimation."

Sony is on the list. Hey they were hacked last year, maybe some other government like China or Russia has amassed some useful data on this? Their Title for the patent is "Muscle-activity diagnosis apparatus, method, and program."

And I see no Wikipedia page for the sole name for the EEG patent, Margaret Ayers. Suspicious? I'm starting to think so.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 04:19 AM
a reply to: Whatsthisthen

In the Tibetan traditions there is Mindful Meditation and there is Transcendental Meditation. Mindful meditation results in actively engaging your prefrontal cortex and synching into the Beta Wave. Transcendental Meditation is defined as the Fourth State of Consciousness, right above Waking Consciousness, Dreaming Consciousness (REM Sleep), & Unconsciousness.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 04:21 AM
a reply to: ColdWisdom

I've an idea that the RV scene was created as an elaborate Cold War psy-ops to spook the Soviets and cover up our Intel sources. It explains more of the history of RV than the idea that RV works. It's not as though I'm against the possibility of something like telepathy or something like RV. The players at the core of RV simply don't sound convincing in interviews.

Despite that, yeah, it'd be interesting to wire up people who claim to be successful RVers. I don't mean the obvious chancers like Courtney Brown and Ed Dames, but the ones whose reputations are still good.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 04:25 AM
The Army did in fact use a biofeedback machine as part of the RV program. You were supposed to do two states at once, alpha and gamma IIRC. The display on the machine showed you how much of each you were doing.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 04:29 AM
Bedlam, can you show me where you saw that? Anything you can contribute to this conundrum would be great.
edit on 4/9/2016 by ColdWisdom because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 09:49 AM
Eeesh. That's hard to explain.

I'll see if I can find a neutral third party reference to it.

I'm told the biofeedback meter was a standard piece of training kit after the project left its original home and went independent. You might check McMoneagle.
edit on 9-4-2016 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 10:15 AM
a reply to: ColdWisdom

Get your hands on a copy of the book by the former Army RVer F. Holmes Atwater that was, if not still, the director of Monroe's Institute. He married Robert Monroe's daughter. His book entitled "Captain of My Ship, Master of My Soul, ISBN: 1-57174-247-6 (with jacketed CD) is a personal story, not well written by any means as it lacks explanations and details about every aspect of the work done by the Army (CIA) at the institute.

If you have a grasp on neurofeedback--that is what you should be calling biofeedback in this instance--you come away with a suspicion that he has been involved in a incredible project that is highly secret and he needs to tell about it in his personal way to the best of which he is allowed.

The book "Mind Trek" by Joseph McMoneagle ISBN: 1-878901-72-9 is also an interesting read. McMoneagle, an excellent writer of his experiences was also at the institute. Consider that in the field of RVing today that there are the genuine folks that have their stories to tell to the extent they are allowed, and there are some that are active shills to keep the topic into a ", all of that stuff is crazy," zone.

Barring any decent info, find a copy of the book that started it all, "Mind-Reach" by Russel Targ & Harold Puthoff, ISBN: 0-440-05688-8 (1977). Targ went on to be part of a business of RVing and Puthoff has become almost a legend in his own time by dabbling in a book on UFOs, Zero Point Energy and the last I heard was supposedly working in Austin at the University of Texas prototyping the electric "rail gun." But I never believe that story.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 01:09 PM
To be clear I am aware of the fact that biofeedback was available in the 60s & 70s. But neurofeedback is a specific derivative of biofeedback that was not available in the 60's & 70's.

So I google: biofeedback and remote viewing

I did a story for the 10 p.m. news at the American Academy of Neurologists meeting in Hawaii.

To introduce young and old to the wonders of neurology, there was a booth set up with an EKG machine and technicians giving demonstrations. They would stick wires on your head and show you your brainwaves.

I sat down and said, "I want to try to bring my brain to ALPHA, and maybe THETA." The lady hooked up the electrodes to my scalp and I started "PRIMING." This is a mental visualization exercise used at Hawaii Remote Viewers' Guild to induce inclined orbit between ALPHA and THETA.

It was difficult with a TV camera focused on me in front of a crowd of spectators in a bright noisy place, but I did manage to get a very nice quiet ALPHA state, with some THETA. The technician was impressed.

So after we unhooked me from the EKG I began chatting with her about brain waves, and how Theta is a jumping off point for some interesting experienceslike (dare I mention this at a conference of Neurologists?) Remote Viewing.

Her reaction was favorable, so I continued.

I said, "I've been working with a guy for more than a decade who was in US Army Special Forces Intelligence." I explained that he was listening to Morse Code back in the late 1970's and it apparently induced a certain brainwave state that allowed him to perceive sensory images across time and space. I said the military knew that other Morse intercept operators had reported this phenomenon.

She seemed accepting.

So our conversation continued. I explained that I believe my friend was provided some type of biofeedback and electronic stimulation that enhanced his ability to achieve this state that allowed remote viewing to occur.

She nodded and said, "Yes, of course."

I was quite surprised that she would be aware of this because any time we ask Glenn Wheaton (former Special Forces remote viewer) about it he changes the subject. It is something he will not discuss. (I believe using electronic tonal stimulation and biofeedback to enhance RV is still classified.) So I asked her, "How do you know about this?"

She told me her son is in Recon Marines, and they cross-trained with Special Forces, and he was introduced to remote viewing and biofeedback.

This exchange was interesting to me for two reasons. First, it confirms that the military did not just employ remote viewing at one program at Ft. Meade, and continued to use it after the Ft. Meade effort folded its tent. The lady told me her son- a Recon Marine- was trained as a remote viewer by US Army Special Forces.

It is also interesting to me because she was aware her son the Marine had been given electronic feedback/stimulation to enhance brainwave state and RV ability.

I'll always remember something Glenn told me standing outside the old Hawaii Remote Viewers' Guild classroom in Kalihi years ago. Several of the viewers in one of the original classes had just performed well on a validation target. Glenn said something along the lines of "you guys re really amazing. You are able to do that all on your own with no help. It's quite remarkable."

I asked what he meant, and I still recall his exact phrase. "You guys are plowing a field with a teaspoon. You could use a tractor, but it's not available to you."

I believe some of us need to find some civilian researchers who have biofeedback/brainwave technology, get them up to speed on remote viewing and design a way to achieve and maintain the proper inclined orbit at theta using electronic stimulation and feedback to remote view.


"How do you know you can't perceive sensory data across space and time if you have never consciously and intently attempted to do it?"

-Dick Allgire

Here's the problem with this story, EKG is not neurofeedback.

EKG is An electrocardiogram (EKG or ECG) is a test that checks for problems with the electrical activity of your heart. An EKG shows the heart's electrical activity as line tracings on paper. The spikes and dips in the tracings are called waves.

Moving down the list of things that pop up on google:


I've read about the military using biofeedback or neurofeedback on the trainees to put them in altered states. Is that so?


I hate to burst a lot of people's bubbles, but no matter what you read about that, it didn't happen. We would have loved to have the chance to do some kind of work like that, but you have to remember that we were the military's bastard child. We worked in buildings which had been condemned right after WWII, we used furniture and equipment a lot of which we had gotten from Property Disposal. Our directors used to say with pride that the finance boys loved our unit because two things have to be financed in every unit: the personnel and the equipment. In our unit, the personnel WAS the equipment.

We toyed around with a few brainwave biofeedback machines which unit members had bought on their own, but we never had the kind or quality of equipment which would allow any serious research or work in the field. It just didn't happen.

Now, I know that a lot of people will jump up and yell that they had heard quotes that we had received over $20 million over the life of the project. What you must remember is that there were two sections to the project: the research side at SRI, in California, and the operations side, at Ft. Meade, in Maryland. The quote of $20 million accounts for both sides of the project. You have on the one side, a prestigious scientific team at a world-leadership-ranking think-tank, doing clandestine work in the midst of a huge center of thousands of research projects. That causes a gigantic (and very costly) security problem, demand for the latest lab and computer equipment, humongous salaries, etc. On the other hand, you have a handful of soldiers sitting in a condemned building on an Army base. Who do you think got all the money?

So, to be fair about the answer, I would specifically say that the troops at Ft. Meade were never given the opportunity to train with bio-feedback or neuro-biofeedback. As for the people on the west coast, you'd have to contact them to find out the answer there.

(My bolds of course)

I am going to look into the books you had mentioned, Aliensun. But if I wasn't clear about this before I'll say it again:

I don't believe a f***ing word that comes out of Targ or Puthoff's mouth. They were OT7 Scientologists. If anything they are well trained disinformationists. I don't care how highly Dr. Vallee speaks of their work at STI.

I read Messengers of Deception, it was a great book. But the entire time I was reading it I was waiting for Dr. Vallee to call out Scientology among the list of deviant UFO/Contactee groups. He never does it. In fact the only two times he mentions L Ron Hubbard it's to implicate him and Jack Parson's connection to Aleister Crowley, but never Swann, Targ, & Puthoff's connection to L Ron Hubbard. This seems like a critical oversight.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 01:19 PM

In reference to what I just said about Dr. Jacques Vallee:

I love the guy, really. His approach to documenting UFOs & the Paranormal is paramount to the field. I suspect that he intentionally avoids calling out Ingo Swann, Russel Targ, & Hal Puthoff as scientologists so he can avoid being put on the list of Suppressive Persons. Why else would he ignore the connection? Unless he's secretly sympathetic to Scientology. I sincerely hope that is not the case.

Also, I am aware of TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation). It's becoming increasingly popular in the science news publications. It looks like it may have some promising clinical value for treating depression.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 07:19 PM

originally posted by: ColdWisdom

To be clear I am aware of the fact that biofeedback was available in the 60s & 70s. But neurofeedback is a specific derivative of biofeedback that was not available in the 60's & 70's.

EKG machine

They would stick wires on your head and show you your brainwaves.

I sat down and said, "I want to try to bring my brain to ALPHA, and maybe THETA." The lady hooked up the electrodes to my scalp and I started "PRIMING." This is a mental visualization exercise used at Hawaii Remote Viewers' Guild to induce inclined orbit between ALPHA and THETA.

(dare I mention this at a conference of Neurologists?)

I believe some of us need to find some civilian researchers who have biofeedback/brainwave technology, get them up to speed on remote viewing and design a way to achieve and maintain the proper inclined orbit at theta using electronic stimulation and feedback to remote view.

It's obvious that "EKG" is a typo, as you don't hook EKG machines to your scalp. Nor do EKG traces exhibit anything called "alpha" and "theta". Nor does your heart reflect much of anything regarding brain state.

Don't focus on the typo.

Also, if you ever get the wild hair to try a brain bio-feedback machine to do this, be really careful that you get the right combination of states, it's actually possible to mistrain yourself to induce seizures.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 07:22 PM
a reply to: Bedlam

Isn't it an EEG machine? LOL

The one with the dozens of wires and electrodes they use this paste to stick all over your head?

I had to have a test to see if I was epileptic, and that paste really ruined my good hair day. Not sure if I threw the test or not, as I was meditating on a mantra the entire time.

posted on Apr, 9 2016 @ 08:39 PM

You are probably correct about it being a typo. But even still, the K is not anywhere near the E or the C keys on a standard keyboard. That's a pretty obscure typo.


I believe some of us need to find some civilian researchers who have biofeedback/brainwave technology, get them up to speed on remote viewing and design a way to achieve and maintain the proper inclined orbit at theta using electronic stimulation and feedback to remote view.

Even this guy is wondering why there is an absence of neurofeedback in the RV community.

I'm glad you're here Bedlam. You contribute a challenging viewpoint about the topics I've mentioned in this thread. That is why I made it, so we can work together to unravel the mystery. Or do you not believe there is any mystery?

I think you could contribute more to this thread if you had some sources to reference while playing devil's advocate. What do you make of this guy Dick Allgire? He's a member of IRVA. Even with the typo all he has to offer so far is this story. We don't even know if it's true. He implicates the Army but makes no mention of the CIA even though IRVA was founded by former CIA/NSA intelligence contractors. And more importantly, it's the only one I can find. Unless of course, you have something else to offer?
edit on 4/9/2016 by ColdWisdom because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 12:15 AM
a reply to: ColdWisdom

I seem to recall McMoneagle was active in the group that was using the two-channel monitor rig.

You could email him. Probably cheaper than buying a lot of books and trying to scan through them all. Ask him if they didn't use it. He won't bite.

eta: he's probably one of your best bets for accurate info on this sort of thing. There are a couple of other guys who will shoot straight, others either won't reply (Glenn) or will bs you.
edit on 10-4-2016 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 10 2016 @ 12:35 AM
So Bedlam have you yourself ever remote viewed successfully? Or have you ever known anybody to be able to remote view?

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