If Bernie Sanders is president the amount in additional taxes I would pay equals a new Honda Civic

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Oh, so "you didn't build that?"

Let me ask ... without the individual taking the initiative and starting a business and taking all the risk, would it spontaneously happen on its own? After all, society apparently enables these things.

Here's the deal, I can find a wild tomato plant and grow and harvest my own tomatoes without any other people or a "society" to enable it. I can succeed at that all on my own. My tomatoes are my property and I have every right to them and whatever comes of them.

But if you just have a group of people, will they spontaneously create tomatoes without one of them taking the initiative to harvest the tomatoes and grow the plants? No, society doesn't create that on its own - individuals do. But you are now saying you have every right to take the best part of the tomato growers efforts if you think they created too much just because there is a group of people.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: burdman30ott6

You say all that...
But you'll trust a Vox calculator that is proven bull#.


*Blinders on*

It isn't "proven" bull#. It has two or three members on a conspiracy forum plus a couple of Bernie Sanders Pez dispenser-heads claiming it is inaccurate. My God I'm sure glad that's not considered the measuring staff for truth in the real world, or we'd be entirely hosed.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: burdman30ott6

But vox is also lying and using things in its equations that it shouldn't. How can you trust that calculator either?

Actually, the VOX calculator lays all of their assumptions and formulas bare in their FAQ sections. I find it accurate and transparent.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Yes it is.

It's including variables that are non existent to the proposed plan.
It's fixing brackets for click bait.


Only a gullible republican would believe it.

First, you Bernie Tax plan shows no change but what about the 6.2% increase in Payroll Taxes? or the 2.2% for free healthcare that the employer wil kick back to the employee?

8,2% Tax Increase at the start...to start. The highest tax rate would top 50%.

taxfoundation.org...

Try this one...

www.taxrate.xyz...

You see, the issue is that with the Bernie one they are tying the Healthcare in and when it should not be. Tax brackets do not show his increases....

I'm kinda partial to this plan myself...

a reply to: burdman30ott6

But it's not -- they are including things into the calculations that shouldn't be included.

The Vox calculator is putting the burden of corporate and payroll taxes on you and me, the employee -- when it isn't right now, or will be under Sadners.

That's is intentionally making the Vox calculator show false information.

If there is a 5% increase on corporate taxes (which in the REAL WORLD is pay by the business), it shows up as a 5% increase on any individual using the Vox calculator -- which is misleading, and just plain flat out wrong.

Vox claims they are "assuming" everyone will take a pay cut equivalent to the same amount that corporate taxes go up...neglecting that there are minimum wages, union workers, or companies who will just pay any new taxes and not slash people's pay.

That's a huge oversight on Vox's part. That's just plain wrong and irresponsible of them, and gives a false representation of what your taxes will really look like.

As I said, it makes certain assumptions that have no basis in reality.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well, I can understand your position.

However, since it is the case that a small number of people holding a huge majority of wealth is bad for society in general (which, by the way, is not in question in the least), and since one persons rights end, where the rights of another begin, it cannot be right that a persons right to become obese off the backs of the labours of others, can ever outweigh the right of a hardworking person to have safety, security, health, warmth, light, and access to data, without having to worry about the cost of it to the point of choosing to drop one of these things from their expenditure for a year.

IT cannot be right that one persons right to buy a sportscar every month can outweigh the right of a young person to nourish their intellect by being educated to the utmost of their intellectual capacity, and to do so without bankruptcy being a possible outcome of that effort.

It cannot be fair that a poor man is less likely to go to the hospital than a rich man, because only the rich man can afford to do so, without passing on a debt to his children in the event of his death on the table.

If it costs someone a million more in tax a year, so that heart transplants can be given to all without it costing anyone anything at all, except a little tax of course, then you know what? The rights of the transplant recipients met the rights of the millionaire, and the correct boundary level was developed.

Not like now, where the working poor who make the products that make the rich, rich, get stuffed from every angle. Can't afford healthcare, have to buy it anyway, can't afford good food, cannot remain healthy, cannot pay excesses, cannot get treatment, cannot get well again, cannot work as a result...

You see where this is going?

a reply to: Hazardous1408

No, it isn't.

It includes real world figures and doesn't rely on voodoo horsecrap of redefining what "income" is and what "income tax" really is to mask the laundry list of hidden taxes Bernie's plan carries with it, all with real world negative middle class implications. Bernie Sanders' plan is a carnival slideshow that promises to entice and arouse and then, after you've dropped in your quarter to see it, you're shown a plate with a penny on it and encouraged to drop in another quarter to get another penny. It doesn't make economic sense because it was crafted by a man who has ZERO background in economics aside from figuring out a balance between lazing on a friend's couch and turning in cans for recycling fees until he was 40 years old and got his first stead paycheck job (as a politician, of all things.) His economic pipe dream is the result of a man who has spent his ENTIRE life either mooching or directly on the dole of the taxpayer.

Fill in your own negative slanted adjective-whatever the hell political party you want to follow today- statement of guttersnipe horsecrap directed at you here. I just don't really feel like playing that dumb game today myself.

originally posted by: matafuchs
First, you Bernie Tax plan shows no change but what about the 6.2% increase in Payroll Taxes? or the 2.2% for free healthcare that the employer wil kick back to the employee?

8,2% Tax Increase at the start...to start. The highest tax rate would top 50%.
.

THAT'S THE VOODOO!!!
The Sanders' camp has redefined "income tax" to allow Bernie to claim "I won't raise income tax" and be subjectively "truthful." Now, if he started talking about all the other taxes his plan will raise on us all... Whooo-boy!

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
The Vox calculator is putting the burden of corporate and payroll taxes on you and me, the employee -- when it isn't right now, or will be under Sadners.

Almost universally, economists agree that costs to the employer are passed down to the employee in the form of lower wages, lower benefits, fewer hours. This is ESPECIALLY true in difficult economies where consumers are loathe to point-of-time cost increases in products.

So economists disagree with what you just posted.

Again, VOX is accurate and transparent.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

So, to put it more bluntly, because the owners of companies refuse to accept the fact that they should be preparing to make profits more slowly, but instead want to pass on the cost to anyone other than those who can afford it, wages and hours will go down?

Well whose greedy fault is that?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

No, union employees, people making minimum wage, retirees, self-employed people... -- none of those people would be subject to any of that.

And I see no historical evidence or proof that this has happened -- to indicate it will happen.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

40 years old

Right wing lies.

Bernie Sander's started working at the age of 23 upon leaving College in 1964.


I don't even support the guy but the fictitious BS you guys cling to is laughable.

His political career started when he was 40.
Not his early career.

a reply to: TrueBrit

The government. For burdening the employer. I work in that industry. I have seen companies vanish that were thriving based on regulations. They sold the businesses or cut them so small they could not turn profit. More and more regulations.

10 years ago it was commonplace for a company to pay the whole cost of insurance. Now the majority is put to the employee. ACA or Obamacare. It was cheaper to take a penalty and make employees part time and work them harder than provide benefits. Not all, but a lot. This is not helping.

Why does the government want to raise the minimum wage? Because right now people are paying a few part time employees less than a full time making 15 an hour. ONce it is mandatory, you fire 4 and keep one.

Job creation right?

a reply to: matafuchs

If Sanders becomes President, I will stop paying taxes honestly.

I know now only fools follow the rules.

Cash for work. Yeah I can do that.

Not buying bombs or paying salaries to politicians, or paying for illegals.

Really, the IRS can go after conservatives all day. LoL. They can look for my money. I wont have a dime to my name anyways. Hell I wont have more than a single bank account and the rest bitcoin.

Or cash, turning into gold and such over time.

NY state closed my business anyways, is trying to close my dads. Sooooo thanks for that. Nothing to lose now....

One less family of tax payers...and if bernie comes we wont open anymore in the US, wont buy anymore property...I will sell my dads house if ever its mine and buy in another country.

Mexico is looking good for investement. You keep whats yours there.

My income fluctuates year to year, but I am generally in the $300-$500k range. If you think that raising my taxes by $50k won't have negative consequences, to be blunt you are an idiot.

That is money that might have funded my child's college tuition. That is money that might have been reinvested for my own retirement. It is money that I may have used for other charitable giving. It is money that supports my elderly mother.

People in this bracket making say $200-$500k are not rich. These are not people who are flying private planes and popping bottles with Jay-Z. In most cases, these are DUAL INCOME professionals. Your doctors, lawyers, middle management, sales, etc. Most of these people live very modest lives and are at the pinnacle of their earning career and in some cases, income at this level may only last a few years.

Typically people making this kind of money live in major urban cities with very high costs of living. Starter homes costing $500k or more. Private school tuitions. Day care. Student loans. Retirement.

Is Bernie's tax increase going to drive into bankruptcy? No. But it most certainly might change my spending habits which most certainly is going to trickle down. I may not take that vacation. I may not eat out as much.

I keep asking you liberals how much of my earned money you think you deserve? I mean why is it that I am greedy for wanting to keep what I earn but you aren't greedy for demanding I give it to you? What kind of messed up socialist world do we live in where it is greed to want to keep what you work for?

I bust my azz in school so I could get into a certain career. Then I bust my azz some more working 80 hour weeks to learn my business. Then I took out nearly $100 grand in student loans to further my education with an MBA. Then I worked 80 hours week again to climb the ladder at the company. Why sacrifice and work hard if the government is just going to take it?

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Right wing lies? Bernie has lived off the government most his life. He never had a real job. A managerial or executive position till politics in small towns. He lived of assistance before he was elected the first time. I would rather have someone who rebuilt after some business failure than someone who in his younger days collected welfare. A Bum.

He has always wanted to stick it to the man while secretly wanting to be the man...that is his dirty secret.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

And I would trust a 3rd party website using incorrect math and factoring in things that they shouldn't? VOX has been shown and proven to be using incorrect math and figures in their calculator.

Bernietax.com is a 3rd party website.

You can all argue about which calculator is wrong all day.
I have a calculator that says there isn't enough taxation to pay the spending we have now.... even after a huge middle class tax increase.

Bernie wants to spend a whole hell of a lot more than we do now.

You can take all of the 1%'ers assets and you will not have enough to pay for it.

No one counts on the various taxes that we will see that are not included on the income tax. There will be another paycheck deduction for 'free' Healthcare and another one for something else and excise taxes.... etc.