If Bernie Sanders is president the amount in additional taxes I would pay equals a new Honda Civic

a reply to: DBCowboy

"With great power comes great responsibility." Money is power, the more you have the stronger that power is. A person is responsible for how they use that power.

When a person who has great wealth uses it in ways that hurt others by the thousands, millions, billions knowingly, they are responsible for what happened. When a person who's rich offers a politician money to pass laws to favor him and prevent others from becoming competition to hurt small business, or that will allow him take advantage of the populace by making it so they can use off shore slave labor, etc, they are responsible for making this offer. Same as the politician who accepts the offer is responsible for accepting the bribe.

If EITHER party used their power responsibly the corrupt law would not exist. If the politician says no it ends there, if the rich guy never makes the offer there's nothing for the politician to say yes to.

Both parties play an equal part in making this happen.

It's not about punishing people for being successful it's about the social responsibility that comes with the power from that success.

originally posted by: mOjOm

I must say, I really must hand it to the Conservative propaganda machine. They've done an excellent job convincing a huge number of people that Wealth automatically absolves anyone from any responsibility regardless of what they do with that wealth and power.

Oh no - all the very rich and powerful are wonderful, kind, generous, honest, and truthful. Being rich makes them that way. None of them ever do anything dishonest. None of them ever use their money and power for nefarious purposes. Ever. There isn't a bad apple among them.

a reply to: matafuchs

I have learned at my age that the only people who do not like someone with some money is someone without it.

Have you, now..... .....and what, pray tell, is your 'age'?
(Mine is 57.)

It is pure selfish hate.

In a way, you are right - one could take this sentence to mean: It is pure hatred of selfish. All you have to do is capitalize (heh - get it?) the Selfish.

Then you have, "It is pure Selfish hate."

And you would be exactly correct. It is hatred of the Selfish.

Unfortunately, however, it is abundantly clear that it was not your intended "message."

LOL!

a reply to: Puppylove

I don't have a problem with "social responsibility" but when you mandate it, it stops being "social responsibility" and becomes a dictate from the state.

originally posted by: jkm1864

originally posted by: amazing
Yeah most of that "Sanders will raise all our taxes" crap, is just that, crap.

Most of what he's talking about is about "redistribution of Wealth" which means, taking the tax money we already pay and putting towards stuff that we actually want.

We don't want Wars in the middle east or subsidizes for Fossil fuel companies or increases in the budgets of our Alphabet agencies etc. We'd rather "redistribute" some of that money to Education and Healthcare. Things we actually need.

Also he'd like to replace the bloated Obamacare with a cheaper streamlined universal health care system. Something we all want. Except for the "supermen" that inhabit ATS= There is an abnormal amount of Right leaning American males that have an abnormal amount of money to spend on healthcare and the never get sick right here on ATS. LOL

You do realize most of the right leaning males You hate are not rich? Men tend to lean right because We don't have vagina's that can pop out children for a steady welfare check. You do realize that 20 years ago there was no welfare for Men or crazy checks so We HAD to feed ourselves. I grew up conservative because I grew up in a broken home and I learned at a early age what worked and what didn't work. I also made a lot of mistakes in My life and learned from them and didn't have the luxury of family or government for bail outs because those didn't exist.

I don't hate Right leaning males. I was just pointing out that, here on ATS, whenever we have a discussion about Obama Care or Healthcare in general, I get a lot of flack from right leaning males saying things like "Pay your own way" "If you can't afford healthcare you shouldn't have it" "Why should I pay for your healthcare with my Taxes" "I've never needed help with Health Care costs".

It's funny because like you just stated many right leaning males are not rich and are one catastrophe, which can happen to anyone, away from Banktruptcy or overwhelming Healthcare Debt, or worse.

originally posted by: speeddr2000

originally posted by: amazing
Yeah most of that "Sanders will raise all our taxes" crap, is just that, crap.

Most of what he's talking about is about "redistribution of Wealth" which means, taking the tax money we already pay and putting towards stuff that we actually want.

We don't want Wars in the middle east or subsidizes for Fossil fuel companies or increases in the budgets of our Alphabet agencies etc. We'd rather "redistribute" some of that money to Education and Healthcare. Things we actually need.

Also he'd like to replace the bloated Obamacare with a cheaper streamlined universal health care system. Something we all want. Except for the "supermen" that inhabit ATS= There is an abnormal amount of Right leaning American males that have an abnormal amount of money to spend on healthcare and the never get sick right here on ATS. LOL

So give more money to Department of Education ? Give more money to Government so they can use it better than now ? At the same time saying Government is bought and paid for by the rich ?! How is giving more money to a corrupt Government going to improve anything ?

Not give more money, but put it where I want it.

I'd rather pay for healthcare and education with my taxes than bloated military budgets. Wouldn't you?

a reply to: matafuchs

Get with reality? You have a candidate that cannot be bought. Can't. Why, because he buys politicians.

Riigght....and...?????????

Why is this a bad thing folks? Deals. Why would he make deals? Because he knows things on ALL of these peopl

Ah...extortion! ......... [long pause]............... Yeaaahhhhhh - ... -- that's the ticket!!!!"

*eyeroll*


OMG. Dude. Don't derp. So - you aspire to be rich enough to afford to buy Congress?

Holy Dazzling Delusion!!!!

You're fantasizing......but at least you aren't catastrophizing! The world won't come to an end if Bernie wins....even you will be assured health care, food, and shelter...

Wow. Just wow.

a reply to: amazing

Not give more money, but put it where I want it.

I'd rather pay for healthcare and education with my taxes than bloated military budgets. Wouldn't you?

.....what about the Department of Environmental, though.........



*cues Idiocracy "Brawndo" scene....*

in the meantime:


The DEP!!!

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I don't have a problem with "social responsibility" but when you mandate it, it stops being "social responsibility" and becomes a dictate from the state.

That's because without it mandated it wouldn't happen. Even now with it being mandated they still find ways out of contributing by tax evasion schemes. Do you think if it wasn't mandated that all of a sudden they would give a damn when they don't give a damn now??

No, because to even begin having "Social Responsibility" they have to be a part of that Society on a personal level. They have no ties to society other than taking their money. Once that resource is tapped they don't care, they just move to the next one and tap that one next.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

Oh no - all the very rich and powerful are wonderful, kind, generous, honest, and truthful. Being rich makes them that way. None of them ever do anything dishonest. None of them ever use their money and power for nefarious purposes. Ever. There isn't a bad apple among them.

Of course. Prisons are proof of this aren't they??? Prisons are filled with Poor Criminals proving that only the poor are criminals to begin with. Police patrol and arrest poor people because they are the ones committing all the crime. The Rich are just the victims. This is evidently true by looking at the world isn't it???

a reply to: amazing

I have to agree with you.

It's easy when you have a job, have worked hard and can afford healthcare to put others down.

The folks you speak of don't seem to be capable (or care to) put themselves in the shoes of other people. Not everyone is some lazy mooch with devious intentions to scam and screw everyone.

Not everyone is out to get you!

However, these people seem to think there is danger all around and are paranoid everyone wants to steal from them all the time. They seem to over inflate their own worth, and overestimate their value to the world and society they exist in. It's a testosterone-fueled ego thing.

Good going on snagging your username by the way. I dig it... We should all try to be more amazing every day.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
However, these people seem to think there is danger all around and are paranoid everyone wants to steal from them all the time. They seem to over inflate their own worth, and overestimate their value to the world and society they exist in. It's a testosterone-fueled ego thing.

Good going on snagging your username by the way. I dig it... We should all try to be more amazing every day.

Oddly enough most people normally think others view the world in the way they view the world. So if you think everyone is out to get you, it means on some level you are out to get everyone.

If you think people are out to steal your stuff, then on some level you are out to steal theirs.

a reply to: mOjOm

How much do I have to give?

How much of my taxes needs to be taken to care for everybody?

How much charity should I have?

It's no longer up to me. The state determines worth, determines value of life, and determines what I must give.

Just don't DARE lie to me and tell me we are free in the US!

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: mOjOm

How much do I have to give?

How much of my taxes needs to be taken to care for everybody?

How much charity should I have?

It's no longer up to me. The state determines worth, determines value of life, and determines what I must give.

Just don't DARE lie to me and tell me we are free in the US!

Well that's just it, right? We're not free and we have limited power, but...I think our choices for president determine a little bit. Such as Clinton is more likely to push for LGBT rights bills than Trump. Sanders is more likely to push for some education money than Cruz. Trump might be more likely to increase border patrol, security funding than Clinton. Cruz might ease some banking regulations, considering his wife works for Wall street than Sanders. Clinton would be more likely to push some clean energy bills than Cruz.

So We're really playing for those small nuances. It depends what's important to you. MOst of the big stuff doesn't change but our president can make a difference in a few of the issues we care about.

a reply to: matafuchs

Using that calculator, basically 100% off my part time income goes to extra taxes. Sweet.

a reply to: amazing

These issues won't be resolved with a presidential election. I'm not one who believes in hope and change.

But I will argue the issues. And until we find a way to rid ourselves of the 535 parasites in DC, we'll continue being stuck in this.

I wasn't kidding when I said "The House always wins". And here we are, arguing over which slot machine is better.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: jkm1864

Hahaha You are speaking to the wind brother. This person does not support a family of three. I'm willing to bet this person doesn't even support themselves or at best supports them self. Oh and before You jump down My throat realize getting subsidized living is not supporting Yourself or another.

Aherm...excuse me. I can hear you.
This "person" raised two children to adulthood, put their father through college, and then went to graduate school herself. This person owns a home she bought as a single mom in 1999, and has NEVER, EVER MISSED A PAYMENT. This person is now married to a veteran with PTSD who is also an extremely talented IT guy who nets about $75,000. We have two cars and a motorcycle, all PAID FOR. We have no debt.

We don't get handouts, and we MAKE DO with what we have - we do just fine.

So, dry up. You and Team Ketsuko, all of you. Acting like jerks. Oh, and btw, my father (not my uncle) was an engineer and entrepreneur who hired locally, worked his ass off, paid his bills, paid off his home, raised 3 kids all while my mom stayed home...he invented the 8-Track back when....he has dozens of patents for other things as well.....

So just shut the hell up about me.
This person does NOT suffer fools well, and I'm tired of all the bullsh!t jerks like you keep yammering about.
So - how much was that bet????

PAY UP

Well that's good for You. So according to what You said You are pretty well off right? How do You go to sleep at night with that hatred of others. Do You not want other people to climb the ladder of success just like You? You do realize the taxes You want will not only be levied on You but on people whom have less than You.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: DBCowboy

The rich didn't give us the trade agreements.

Politicians did.

Obama with TPP, Clinton with NAFTA.

Stop being so dense. The Government just signed the paperwork making them official. But on who's behalf were they created for??? Who benefits from them???

BTW, many within the Gov. are the Rich Elites as well. Most of the rest of them are just in their pockets.

The corporations benefit from free trade. If our country went back to it's libertarian roots corporations wouldn't be a problem since they are prohibited in the constitution.

a reply to: TrueBrit
Great reply TrueBrit. I do enjoy reading your posts as well as MystikMushroom's and others in this thread but I find the points you're arguing against, and those that bring them, to be quite boring.
You appear to be pro labor and that makes me happy as I too am in favor of those who work for their pay. In the end it doesn't matter what any of our opinions are things will go as the will, beyond our control. It is nice, however, to find comradery among those in social media.

I took the time to look up the exception to your point, Nick Hanauer. For those who have not seen his TED videos, here you go. It appears quite pertinent to the discussion in this thread.

Here is the updated TED talk.

I find I like this guys attitude. I hope others will enjoy these videos as much as I have.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: DBCowboy
It baffles me how you will blame the wealthy and successful and ignore the politicians you champion.

Of course it baffles you, that's because you're not understanding anything I'm saying.

I don't champion the politicians while blaming the rich. Because they are mostly one in the same!!! When they aren't the same then the politicians are simply in the pockets of the rich which is just as bad.

How do you get that I'm favoring the politicians???

What baffles me is how you don't blame the rich when it's clearly them who buy the politicians in the first place and are the only ones who benefit from the horrible policies coming out of DC.

How are you not able to put those two together and figure out who's behind these problems??? Do you think the rich are buying politicians off to make policies against themselves yet somehow things just keep working out in their favor??? I mean come on man!!

No Your problem is anyone whom makes more money than You is considered rich. Do You actually think someone making 250k a year has money to influence elections or donate to politicians to get certain outcomes? I do agree there is a problem with billionaires and corporations influencing elections. I do believe corporations should be illegal but I sure as hell don't agree with more government and higher taxes. If You want to get rid of the power elite You get rid of the damn food troft they feed on which is government corruption plain and simple. A little food for thought. Did You know before corporations people made decent livings as tailors and cobblers? Now those professions are very rare because big corporations like NIKE use Vietnamese slave labor to make shoes. If You want to blame anyone for falling wages then point Your finger at the corporations instead of the so called evil rich.