Capitalists - you really don't see a problem?

a reply to: sycomix

Here's the problem you and me have, there are multiple ways to contribute to society, humanity and our future. Working for profit is not the only way, and you want a world where that's all there is. The reason we need socialism is we need a society where the goal is the advancement of humanity and not profit. Most of these "worthless" people wouldn't be in a society focused on advancement rather than profit. A lot of those "useless" people are really smart, they have a lot to contribute intellectually, and if allowed to pursue their interests could advance us rapidly. So much human potential is wasted with 9 to 5's and obscene university costs. Everyone can contribute something, and if you can contribute anything at all, you deserve at minimum the basics.

a reply to: Puppylove

We will have to agree to disagree about what people "deserve". Fair enough?

a reply to: sycomix

You sound like the Nestlé CEO saying that water is not a right. Food and water are a right, they are essential to survival. You would rather see someone starve to death than to lend them a helping hand? That's selfish and the problem with America, people being so self-centered that they couldn't care less about other people who are in need. If you thinking they didn't try hard enough is an excuse for you to ignore being a bad person then go for it but it doesn't take away the fact that you're still a bad person.

a reply to: Willingly

Big cities with inequality create the biggest pools of criminals. I'm actually made other posts or threads about over populating cities being a terrible thing. People become criminals because cities are designed in such a fashion where the rich and homeless are amongst each other every single day, gangs form, organized crime.

Big cities have
More pollution
More crime
More corruption
More inequality
Higher racial tensions
Less socializing
Less connection

It's just a cesspool in my opinion.

On topic though, I do agree that the criminals, the elite and the rich should not be justified in their actions based on a perceived possibility that anyone could become like them. The fact is, they are who they are and they are denying the majority of people a better life, so they can have a life of luxury, with power and greed fueling their actions.

People always ask how much of the world would want to move to America.. I wonder if the ills of the world can all be traced back to politicians or corporations. If so, it's blatantly obvious where all collective fingers should be pointing.

a reply to: deadlyhope

So what is your solution? If not Capitalism what then?

a reply to: RomeByFire

I mean free market in the sense that if you have a product or service people want, you can sell it to them.
It creates opportunity for anyone with an idea.
If I invent something that everyone wants, the government is not allowed to tell me how many I can make or sell, or at what price I can sell it at. This inspires people to create goods and services that otherwise, may have not existed.
That being said, all these economic systems fail eventually. Mostly due to corruption.
When it comes to banking and large sums of money, capitalism has plenty of holes.
When we are talking when we are talking actual products and entertainment services, capitalism works well

a reply to: Puppylove

A society based on progress and potential would be beautiful. The advancements in every field would blow every other nation away. No one could compete, not even close. People always seem to think millionaires are just geniuses with ideas that propel humanity... I disagree. I very much disagree.

They hold back humanity by patenting an idea that could have been a good one if intended to be for the benefit of man and not money.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Never said it was out of the question to be charitable. But those things are not a promise to anyone, in nature only strong successful life persists. Maybe we need to get back to basics.

a reply to: gpols

That's not what capitalism is at all. Capitalism is about profit, period. It's about paying workers as little as you can, while maximizing your profit, irregardless of what the worker is actually worth. Harder workers are sometimes paid more as an incentive, but more often than not favoritism plays a bigger part as many hard workers are overlooked. Capitalism is about greed and profit margins. It's a system where is center focus is ambition and human greed, it's very foundation is corruption. It's doomed to corruption because the very heart of it is corruption.

a reply to: deadlyhope

You need some Milton in your life.

Problem:

Groups of people can't even agree on the problem.

Solution:

People that don't get along need to break apart and form their own societies.

If we could colonize space, we could all have our own socities. The hardcore conservatives could have their little survival of the fittest outpost on the Moon. The Utopian Liberals could setup shop on Mars or whatever.

Right now, we're all crowded onto a bus together, pushing and shoving for space. We can't even agree on what the problem is, let alone a solutions to whatever that problem IS.

There are simply to many dissenting ideas, ideas that are deeply fundamental. These can't be overcome. Sorry, they can't. The divides in society right now are so deeply ingrained, I'm afraid, that there won't ever be compromise or working together.

The only thing we can hope for is that new areas of colonization open up so that people can break apart, go their own way, and do their own thing. We used to have "the west" to expand into. New frontiers and "the new world" was available to us. We don't have that anymore. There are no more frontiers.

We need no places to colonize and spread. We're never going to get along, we need to accept that and just agree to disagree and go form our own societies. Time will prove which models of society work best.

originally posted by: RomeByFire

And to answer your question, they're called "illegal immigrants," and people want them to pay for and build a wall to keep them out.

Yes and they're running from a country that you guys want to emulate.

a reply to: gpols

It's hard to say - any system would require every senator and Congressman we currently have to be replaced - which arguably would fix things even within our current system, if they were the right people.

That being said, I think we need... Amendments? Something much more concrete that separates government and corporations. No more money in campaigns, no more corporate lobbyists, no more crazy regulations that small businesses cannot keep up with. Obviously there would be a process to sort out reasonable and unreasonable forms of regulation.

Also, higher tarrifs, trade laws that ensure quality and safety and good business practices for the consumer, not trade laws that benefit corporations, laws against moving companies over seas...

It would be a lot of things. Education of consumers to realize they have the power in the economy - it's vague, and wouldn't be easy to implement, but to me is super important. Business owners aren't worth a dime without workers. Workers are still worth something without business owners - bringing to light that a country built on small businesses would be better.

Wouldn't be sure how to legislate that, though.

a reply to: Puppylove

No it's not. Read Adam Smith "The Wealth of Nations". That is what capitalism is.

You're description of capitalism sounds like you got it from some Communist propaganda website.

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: RomeByFire

And to answer your question, they're called "illegal immigrants," and people want them to pay for and build a wall to keep them out.

Yes and they're running from a country that you guys want to emulate.

They're running here because people are offering to hire them.

How about we arrest and throw in jail people that hire illegal workers?

If America wasn't such a gravy train for illegals, then we wouldn't have a problem now -- would we? If there were no job opportunities for illegal immigrants, what reason would they have to sneak into the USA?

None.

Someone please elect me ruler of the freaking world, I swear...I spend like, 10 minutes thinking and I've practically solved the world's problems. Sheesh.

originally posted by: Willingly
a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

Capitalism is not perfect, but just may be the best way to run things. Free market baby.

There you go. Someone is spreading the lie that a cat is a dog. That capitalism deals in a free-market economy.

Prove your statement on an economical level to be true. Define capitalism in economical terms, please. And what is a free-market? How does a free-market work? And what conditions are needed for a free-market to work?

Thanks in advance.

I'm not doing any of that. There are plenty of places that YOU can go and look at both sides of the argument.
I'm not here to prove anything.
Only to give my opinion on things, then take the responses, consider what is said in them, then rethink my position on the issue. what you said does not allow me to do that at all. It's only mocking me and that's it. How does this help anybody?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

To expand on my point regarding what occurs in nature, the lion that cannot hunt starves, why sacrifice the pride for one lion?

a reply to: TheBulk

Who's running from Switzerland or Norway or even Canada? I've never heard of this. Link please?

a reply to: sycomix

That would be a good argument if we hadn't replaced nature with cancerous sores called cities to suffocate nature. Guess where the majority of homeless people reside? In cities. That's not a coincidence. Our economic system makes people weak, nature doesn't so your argument doesn't really apply here.

If food and water are not a right then neither is your paycheck.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Let's not forget that going into the wild to hunt and forage to live is ILLEGAL and you can go to jail for it.